Express,

One evening, in a previous life, I recall a having a chat with Andy Janes, of SEN background, and he explaining that having bought up all the old Budgies for next to nothing then within a year or few there would be no airframe depreciation (in monetary terms) to take in to account.

A friend of mine, in another of my previous lives, wanted to start a cargo operation and was talking about utilising Metroliners, telling him to "bog off" whilst suggesting he utilise SD330's he did the sums and came back to me telling me I was right, he didn't actually start a cargo operation but someone standing over my shoulder in the office that day subsequently started "Air Cavral" utilising, guess what, SD330's!

I'm fully aware that geriatric and/or pieces of cr@p airframes attract lower overheads, indeed in yet another of my previous lives I worked for, and personally knew on a less than formal basis, the "Sir" that made his money flying "scrap airframes" during the Berlin airlift, he's another with a SEN background, he started "Aviation Traders" there amongst other things.

About the only aircraft that make money when they're not flying are those on exibit and/or in museums, other than that they tend to attract expensive parking fees whist expensive to employ and train crews might be better utilised doing what they're paid and trained to do.

I could name owners/operators who will let you have commuter aircraft for less than renting a car as long as you give them contribution towards maintenance costs and cover the standing charges.

A few years ago now but I know first hand the cost of the Let410 when it came to Pembrey for Air Wales and the expectations of the hours it had to fly.

By generating sales based on the potential of the aircraft rather than actual travel. Seats on an aircraft are a commodity like any other, and a perishable one at that. Any normal retailer will confirm that footfall and passing trade are essential for maximising profits. So while your shop window is 36000 feet up being "experienced" by confirmed customers, someone on the ground has to be paid to come up with ways of convincing everyone who didn't buy, or hasn't decided to buy, a ticket that they ought to do so.

Modern aviation economics puts huge emphasis on the cost of an ASM but passengers don't buy ASMs, they buy a ticket for a journey that someone (else) has persuaded them they need to take. What works best? Cheap headline fares. The justification for this is, supposedly, to stimulate interest and create an impression of passing trade, but this fails to take account of the fact that a great number of potential air travellers really don't care whether or not the aircraft goes anywhere - they like the idea, they watch the TV travel programmes, they surf the net, they might even buy the guide book, but they don't book the ticket.

Give them a 'plane, sell them the hope of stepping aboard one of those once-a-day departures and they'll happily pay for another turn of the wheel of their dreams ... and no-one needs to worry about the cost of fuel.

Airline advises that French immigration / customs won't be ready at Paris-Pontoise until 2 weeks after Brighton City start flying. All flights to go via Rouen / Le Touquet for the first fortnight of operations

It ain't Paris-Pontoise, it's "Pontoise-Cormeilles en Vexin" as so called by it's operator Autres-aéroports - Aéroports de Paris

Actually, I think an airline operating into an airport which is exactly the same road distance from l'Arc De Triomphe as is CDG does have a case for calling it 'Paris'. Driving time is 40 minutes; 10 minutes longer than from CDG - once you've got out of the place of course.

Bad start regarding the Customs situation though as Rouen is far from being able to be called 'Paris', at 80 miles distance.

And how many international air travellers "drive" from CDG and to/from, of all places, l'Arc De Triomphe?

The public transport website is ratp.fr - Accueil, the main interchange for much of France is Paris Gare Du Nord rail station, I've got better things to do, watch paint dry and concrete set etc, but I question the difference in public transportation times between CDG and POX to/from Gare Du Nord.

And if it ain't in Paris and the airport operator doesn't call it a Paris airport then it ain't a Paris airport, end of!

Express - should have made myself clearer. Rouen / Le Touquet will be just a stopover - all flights will begin or end at Pontoise but will take an extra 30 mins to.allow for an en route stop.

Might as well fly the punters to/from London/Ashford airport and put them on a train from/to Ashford station and central Paris :)

Unbelievable, having to do a "tech stop" on a cross border air service because one of the airports doesn't have customs/immigration.

And Pontoise is a "Paris" airport ... Really? :)

You are grumpy this morning Phileas.

When I fly into CDG I usually get into the city by car; taxi or picked up by the client and I doubt that I'm unique in that respect. You wouldn't call l'Arc De Triomphe a central Paris destination then?

RER/Metro travel times to Gare du Nord are 25 minutes from CDG and 54 minutes from Pontoise RER station; as you would expect very much quicker from CDG.

I'll leave you to get on with your "better things".

Davidjohnson6

Thanks for that clarification.

It certainly reduces the appeal of the route as your average passenger doesn't much like an intermediate stop, let alone one where he may have to disembark to clear Customs.

"This morning" Expressflight?

Nope, it's just approaching 1800 hours (GMT +8) here and we're just deciding where to go for our evening meal :)

Looking at the airline's bookable flights for the first couple of weeks it seems as if they're day stopping POX and just operating one rotation, unless I'm drawing the wrong conclusion.

Just went online checking availabilty on 06/03 POX to ESH and shows as all flights full, which suggests they are non-op, until the evening of 11/03 which, when I entered, priced the 15 seats that I requested as available and at £73.95 each.

Doesn't appear that too many people have been booking this air service ... Now there's a surprise. :)

How was the meal?

Thanks for asking Expressflight,

We went for pizza in this mosquito infested jungle, wasn't so good, chose a less than tasty pizza from the menu, back home now supping an evening beer or few before being up tomorrow morning for an 0730 (ish) start dictating/supervising the completion of a sh1tpit and soakaway, the priming/painting of the one remaning accommodation room, the rendering of walls, the clearing of cr@p and the neutralising then priming of the walls of our restaurant kitchen and kazi, then some gardening, then me and the missus, as required, might be off in the van to buy up some rocks (for concrete) and/or Bermuda grass whilst "Harry" our dog wonders "WTF?" :)

Could be worse ... I worked at SEN Airport once upon a time :)

Visited website and tried to dummy book for between 1 and 19 pax for each day from 6th to 19th March. I am assuming a 19 seater, so if 7 seats are available but 8 seats unavailable it would imply 12 seats are occupied. I am also assuming one round trip flown per day except Wed 13th March with no flight operating.

In the first 7 days, 46 seats are occupied each way or on average 6.6 seats are occupied per flight so load factor of 35%
Of the 92 seats taken, 22 are on the first day - presumably some are non revenue such as local press and various important bods.

Looking at the first 2 weeks of operations the demand peaks on Friday (8th + 15th March) and also Sunday (10th + 17th March). Midweek seems to be a slower seller, particularly as no flight operates on 13th March. This seems to indicate demand comes from leisure focussed passengers so far.

Doesn't mean they were eight paying passengers though - especially in the first few days!

Hope it works out for them - they're going for the correct approach of a small aircraft to see if the demand is there, and day stop where the demand isn't. Any idea which Let 410 they're using from VanAir? (Never mind, it's OK-RDA, curiosity satisfied!)

It's showtime...

Not a good start, flight departed for Le Touquet nearly two hours late. Hope things improve.

Live flight information - Brighton Airport

Anyone got any pics? :D

I notice tonights 19.30 departure to Le Touquet has already departed according to the Live Departures.

And it also arrives at 1930 according to Live Arrivals ... these darn LET410's are quicker than one thinks :)

I assume this morning's delayed departure was due to the fact that the aircraft didn't position in from IOM until 0829.

This whole venture is a waste of time, money and fuel.

Three months MAX

aircraft went 'tech'
 

I'm not sure even the name is a good idea! Pretty restrictive when it comes to any ambitions for growth...

Any update on the popularity of this service?

Mickey - if you want to see exact reserved passenger numbers, just go to the airline website and make a dummy booking for between 1 and 19 passengers and see if there is availability. Aircraft has 19 passenger seats so availability for 7 extra people but not 8 would mean 12 people already booked on the flight.

BCA generally do not give refunds for no shows

I noticed Brighton City do flights to Le Touquet from seeing the departure / arrival boards.

Did they change flying from Pontoise to Le Touquet, or are they doing both routes?

Regarding comments of delays, will Shoreham airport be getting a ILS installed to support the Brighton City services?

turbine - could I suggest having a read of posts on this thread over the last 2 weeks ? Posts since the beginning of March might answer your question on Le Touquet

Sorry, didnt scroll back to the previous :) Thanks!

I notice Shoreham dont have an ILS. I am guessing Brighton City really need this, if they are going to make it work. The new rules on compensation / delays came in regarding refunds etc for airlines.

Seriously, ILS ? I dont think a mere two movements per day on a puddle jumper warrants a large spend on an ILS system or anything of the sort ! :ugh:

Shoreham has a history of failed scheduled service operations, even JEA (nowadays known as Flybe) couldn't make it work and for years Lydd, sorry "London/Ashford", Airport have tried to improve upon more than just a most basic cross-channel air service and still they're in the 4th division ... or whatever ithe 4th division is called these days.

Generally speaking, such puddle jumper operations work if they are from airport to airfield or airfield to airport, i.e. there needs to be a recognised airport at one end of the route.

Now if this were Gatwick-Pontoise then I reckon they could justify a 50 seater or similar, Gatwick-CDG then perhaps a hundred seater, Shoreham-CDG then perhaps a 20 seater ... Shoreham-Pontoise then perhaps a 4 seater!

But, basically speaking, and I've flown on Antonov's, Tupolov's and the likes, if I arrived at Shoreham to find a Let-410 waiting to transport me then I'd probably jump back in my car and drive an hour or so down the A27/M27 and allow Flybe to transport me from/to SOU.

But mowing the grass and moving the sheep off the strip may be within budget.

Found this detailed review with pictures on first flight ^_^

Brighton City Airways Inaugural To Paris, Let 410. — Trip Reports Forum | Airliners.net

:D

It's more like commercially advertising for the airport and airline rather than an independent review.

I believed the writer might actually know what he is talking about until I read:

Phileas

A think a glance at the declared distances and runway surface/dimensions might cause you to reconsider that view.

Shoreham could handle a Dash 7 which is significantly bigger than a LET so Phileas is correct. However as Dash 7s are rarer than hen's teeth maybe this is a moot point. But it does prove that the statement made in the "review" is technically wrong - therefore this throws doubt on the accuracy of everything in the article.:ok: