However, if APD is forcing companies out of business, then at some point the costs of redundancy and unemployment benefit more than outweighs any income. The loss of tax revenue from companies the size of TCX would wipe out any fiscal advantage from APD in one fell swoop.
The Dutch immediately saw the damage that an APD did, and dumped it very quickly, if I remember rightly Schiphol saw a drop of 30% in pax numbers within 9 months of the introduction of a departure tax. Did the government not announce recently that APD would increase in April? And if APD is supposed to be a "green" tax, then with the introduction of ETS then surely APD should die...? |
However, if APD is forcing companies out of business, then at some point the costs of redundancy and unemployment benefit more than outweighs any income. |
ncleflights - if one were to draw 2 straight lines, one from Newcastle to Lancaster, and another going east-west about 10 miles south of Edinburgh / Glasgow, we find a large area of land with a relatively low population density. Yes, the residents of Berwick or Carlisle might switch from choosing NCL / MAN to instead using EDI / GLA respectively, but I am not yet convinced many of those living in Newcastle, Lancashire or Scotland's central belt would realistically consider crossing the border and making a long land journey to an airport for a flight, either now or in the future.
Do you happen to know if there is any publicly available data showing how many people currently make these big land journeys to reach a different airport ? |
davidjohnson6 - yes the population is small if we use the area given in your example and I would have agreed with you until recently. However if the Scottish Government abolish APD as they have indicated they want to I think quite a few folks would travel to save the fee, particularly if its a long haul flight and a family of 4. In this example your going to save a fortune.
Whilst I am unsure as to whether any data exists as to whether folks travel long distances we do have a recent example to draw upon. Continental lobied hard to have the NI assembly reduce APD in NI as they were loosing long haul passengers from Belfast to Dublin which of course did not have APD. I think we can draw on this example as evidence that given the chance to save a few hundred quid folks will drive a couple of hours up the road rather than 15 minutes to the local airport. Ive done it a few times myself driving to Manchester rather than flying from Newcastle to see my brother in the US as on average I can save £600 (family of 4). If APD is abolished in Scotland I would simply drive to Glasgow and save even more, its a no brainer and I live 5 minutes from Newcastle Airport terminal entrance. |
Evidence exists in the Dutch example.
Frankfurt and Brussels gained as Schiphol lost. |
All the airlines could always just turn around and whack a massive surcharge on all governmental travel, be it as a charter or individual seats. It will be ok as long as they say its for green taxes.
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NS
I don’t think you understand what I was trying to emphasise. The current situation is not caused by the withdrawal of subsidies, but by interference. Your views are narrow and the better we get to a free market, the better. My assumptions are based on the worldwide industry where carriers are not allowed to fail, protected air service agreements and sovereign guarantees allowing unhealthy carriers to expanding their fleets where their balance sheets are a sea of red. Where we do agree however, is that APD is another stealth tax, where the process will undoubtedly end up in the same pot as speeding fines… |
Well, I'm no spring chicken but I can honestly say I can't recall a more anti-aviation government than this one. At least, not since the Wilson administration of the late 1960's introduced the £25 per pax limit on the amount of currency that could be taken abroad (per year if my memory is right), which played a big part in the demise of British Eagle.
If the Dutch government (historically one of the world's greenest) can see the folly of what was a much lower rate of Dutch APD, and abolish it, then HMG should take note. I suspect the lingering influence of Zac Goldsmith here. |
sanook:
I don’t think you understand what I was trying to emphasise. The current situation is not caused by the withdrawal of subsidies, but by interference NS |
NorthSouth - I dont think its as simplistic as your making out, as has already been mentioned I dont think this would cause problems for Newcastle but also Leeds and Manchester to a lesser extent. If your a family you are going to save a fortune flying long haul from Edinburgh or Glasgow. The savings will far outweigh the extra cost of parking fuel etc.
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Evidence exists in the Dutch example. Frankfurt and Brussels gained as Schiphol lost NS |
What's the position in Germany? They have a high APD tax (2nd highest in Europe?). Is there going to be any change with their's?
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BBC News - Airlines call for Air Passenger Duty to be scrapped
Good to see the airlines ramping up the pressure on our silly government, its a shame that the whinging of a few hundred environmentalists will probably get more attention. |
The case for Bristol & Birmingham could come under the Welsh Government considering to reduce/abolish APD.
However they seem to be slower at working at this compared to the Scottish & Northern Ireland Governments. |
mathers - I could see a case for APD being reduced or even scrapped at Anglesey and Swansea, but would struggle to see why there should be any kind of reduction at Cardiff.
I would be surprised if any long-haul carrier opened at Cardiff, given that Continental have left Bristol for the time being, and the Govt is unlikely to want to subsidise those flying from Cardiff to the Mediterranean beaches or UK domestic Is there however a mechanism for the Govt to subsidise a specific route or two for a limited period of time (2 years maybe ?) as exists in the USA, with the offer open to any airline choosing to fly the route ? Perhaps the Welsh Govt might want to encourage the development of a Cardiff-Frankfurt or Cardiff-Dusseldorf route ? Would be much easier to argue in favour of it helping to boost the Welsh economy... |
mathers_wales_uk - Agree with you 100% however I think the Welsh assembly are not considering removing APD at the moment. Its been mentioned but no firm plans unlike the Scottish Government who have made a firm commitment to get rid of it.
The whole situation is a mess as politicians in various parts of the country recognise that APD is actually damaging the economy. The Scottish Office has recognised this for years in the Highlands and Islands. And indeed the UK Government itself has actually acknowledged that this harmful tax restricts air travel by lowering APD for the Continental airline service from Belfast International to Newark. I dont think we have ever had a government as anti aviation as the current one whilst the decline in regional airports can be partly be blamed on the general economic climate it must be also be blamed on the current administration. The airline industry unlike every other form of transport is not subsidised whereas rail and bus travel is heavily subsidised by the UK taxpayer. The aviation industry does not ask for billions of pounds each year in subsidy to buy new planes or build new airports. It pays for this itself. Imagine the huge public outcry if we added £12 Rail Passenger duty to a single rail ticket. Need I say more. |
NS open your eyes. You fail to understand the difference between government investment and subsidies. Investment in infrastructure is what is needed. We need a third runway at Heathrow; we need a second runway at Gatwick. We need a new airport in the Thames for the future otherwise UK plc will remain stagnant. Aviation has made significant advances in reductions of emissions with new technology. We need a policy that will put the UK back where it belongs. Subsidies are irrelevant .In your case, let the market decide whether there is demand for the existence of a regional airport. Fiscal policy has got us into this mess and we are paying the price.
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