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airforced 16th Feb 2013 08:24

extra legroom seats
I heard they are removing extra legroom seats due to a "sneak through" of legislation on APD from this crazy UK government.

Apparently extra leg room seats are now charged a higher APD rate (note 3):
HM Revenue & Customs: Rates of Air Passenger Duty

and see 2.5, lowest class of travel:
HM Revenue & Customs

The normal seats onboard would be charged APD at the reduced rate and the extra legroom seats would be at standard rate (as they are being marketed as a premium) placing an extra £63 tax on the seat! I doubt many people would want to pay an extra £63 in tax for extra legroom! Looks like they are going for the best option, to remove the extra legroom and maximize "normal seats" onboard to have one class charging APD at the reduced rate.

Another victory for business by this government, on top of EU261 from the great European Union http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/wibble.gif

What are we doing; the UK would be better off without this government and out the EU, but that's another discussion, somewhere else!

Sorry osbidian but that's a load of tosh. Nothing at all to do with APD. All Jet2 seats are economy irrespective of extra legroom or not and therefore the standard APD applies.

They are removing the extra legroom seats for two reasons. More bums on seats on their flights and a seemingly lack of take up for the extra legroom seats. Another reason I'm told is that their 757s are non-standard configuration which means if one goes tech (which they do every now and again) it makes life difficult when they come to swap them round. Standardizing the seating will help them get over such problems.

There are still some legroom seats but the majority are being removed gaining Jet2 about another six rows of seats on a 757 I'm told.

Don't believe everything you read on here (except this post obviously!)

MISTAKE: Not 6 rows of seats as shown above but 6 seats. Apologies.

brian_dromey 16th Feb 2013 09:27

I think there is a certain amount of truth in extra legroom seats attracting the higher rate of APD, depending on the exact interpretation of the legislation underlying the APD tax. I recall when BD scrapped "business class" and introduced "economy extra" (which was equivalent to business class in all but name) there was talk that "economy extra" should attract the higher rate of APD. I don't think it ever happened that the higher rate of APD was charged. The legislation does not speak of "cabins" per se but does refer to enhanced or upgraded levels of service, even within one cabin.

It may be that APD has nothing to do with the LS decision to remove extra legroom seats as Aer Lingus and easyJet certainly dont charge extra APD on their extra legroom seats.

TartinTon 16th Feb 2013 10:11

airforced, you're wrong on this one. All airlines who have added extra legroom seats whether they are designated economy or not are being pursued by HMRC.

The key phrase to note from HMRC is:

Note: If any selection criteria, for seating passengers in the premium cabin or seating, involves extra cost to the passenger for that benefit or the possibility of selection has been offered or advertised prior to the decision to select them, then the operator is deemed to have created more than one class of travel on that aircraft and those passengers are liable for APD at the standard rate.

i.e. if the airline charges extra for the legroom seat then the standard and not the lower rate applies in their eyes.

Some airlines are fighting it, clearly J2 has decided they're onto a hiding to nothing by taking on HMRC and have chosen to remove the seats.

All it will do is result in a poorer product on offer to the public thanks to HMRC.

I might add that they are looking to apply this retrospectively going back 6 years.......

mizake the mizzen 16th Feb 2013 13:32

The maximum config on a B757 is 235 seats (design limit).
Jet2 B757s have 229 I believe.
Therefore they are adding 1 (one) row of 6 abreast. to bring the total to 235.
Extra leg room seats around the Emergency Exits (Doors 1,2 and 3) are obligatory to allow for rapid exit in an emergency.
I don't ever remember Thomson or Thomas Cook selling these Emergency exit extra leg room seats on their 757s with a higher APD charge (but I stand to be corrected).

BasilFawlty 16th Feb 2013 13:42

Max. on a 752 is 238, subject to the exit-configuration. Jet2 752's are currently in 224, 229 and 232 layouts, therefore everything will be standardised to 235.

peachair732 16th Feb 2013 17:53

Oh no! One of the reasons Iv taken Jet2 757s are because of the extra leg room over TCX and TOM 757s, I think its a mistake for Jet2 to go to cattle car charter config in the 757 but this move is not an unexpected one!

Any talk of fleet moderniasation? I think they are in the same position as TCX and TOM with the ageing 757 but then Jet2 have those 737-300s and some of the older 737-800s. Would be nice to see them ploughing a bit of their profit in to updating the fleet.

chaps2011 16th Feb 2013 18:30

Steadly flow of B738 joining fleet now but won`t be brand new as costs are far
to high for either leasing or buying and Jet2 have high summer usage but very low in winter


bluepilot 16th Feb 2013 19:47

big difference between Jet2 and TOM/ TCX is the seat design, you get about 2" more legroom with the standard seat compared to other operators. so going back to 235 config now all the aircraft have them fitted is a good move.

CabinCrewe 17th Feb 2013 09:18

arent the newer style TOM Recaros (not ex FCA) identical to Jet 2 ?

Johnny [email protected] Pants 17th Feb 2013 09:33

Peachair 732
It's just the additional rows of extra legroom seats that are to be withdrawn, the seat pitch will remain the same and you won't notice any difference from previous Jet2 experiences in that respect, so you'll still have the space that you were expecting when you booked:ok:.

Mr @ Spotty M 17th Feb 2013 10:19

Johnny [email protected] Pants
Seat pitch is measured between two points on the seat, it is officially not measured between the seat attachment points.
That is why seat cushions are sculptured inward at the base of the seat back, it is not for comfort, but to meet regulations.
Once the seat attachment distance has been determined to meet that requirement, that is used for the configuration drawing (LOPA) which the engineers use for installing the seats.
So if a row of seats is added, as is in this case, the seat pitch will reduce in the removed area to match the rest of the aircraft.
You are correct in that you will get the seat pitch that you have booked.

bluepilot 18th Feb 2013 03:22


No they are not the same.

LBIA 20th Feb 2013 13:58

Jet2ís Christmas Shopping trips to New York are now on sale. Flights will again be operating to Newark using Boeing 757's from Leeds/Bradford, East Midlands, Glasgow, Newcastle and new for this year 2x additional departures will be offered from Manchester.

East Midlands x1 = THU 14/11
Glasgow x1 = THU 14/11
Leeds/Bradford X2 = THU 05/12 & 12/12
Manchester x2 = THU 21/11 & 12/12
Newcastle x2 = THU 21/11 & 05/12

Ivan aromer 20th Feb 2013 19:47

New york.
the idea of going across the pond in a 757 with no IFE, seats that don't recline and food that at best is inedible. Not for my or mine thanks.

GAZMO 20th Feb 2013 19:54

New Jet2 route from BFS to Salzberg weekly on Saturday from Dec 2013

TSR2 20th Feb 2013 20:00

and food that at best is inedible
On our last three return flights with Jet2 we had booked in-flight meals and I have to say that we found the quality of the food to be excellent.

Ringwayman 21st Feb 2013 06:21

One wonders how people coped when 707s and DC8 were plying across the Atlantic back in the day. Nor even 727s and DC6s/DC7s. Are we now so molly-coddled that we need to have IFE to keep ourselves amused on journeys?

paully 21st Feb 2013 07:30


You are so right. I can even remember the introduction of the 747-100 the first to show films on screens mounted on the walls of the centre galley and toilet block, but this is the Facebook generation who simply get bored when left to their own devices for more than 10 minutes :rolleyes:

airforced 21st Feb 2013 07:59

New york.
the idea of going across the pond in a 757 with no IFE, seats that don't recline and food that at best is inedible. Not for my or mine thanks.
In some respects I have to agree with you.

The Acro seats on Jet2 are abysmal in terms of comfort but the fact that they don't recline is a bonus. There's nothing worse than having your meal tray shoved in your face for hours on end with the plonker in front, who has subjected you to this discomfort, not really getting much benefit from reclining his seat anyway.

No IFE is also a bonus in my view.

Until last year I always sung the praises of the in flight meals provided by Jet2 but after a flight to HER and back I will join you in lambasting their offerings. They have tried to cut costs and increase profits (probably successfully) but the resulting product on offer isn't worth buying.

purplehelmet 21st Feb 2013 08:53

i thought jet2 had IFE on some of the longer routes? for a fee they had a small screen that hooked onto the seat in front. think it was £10 per flight.

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