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-   -   Jet2 4 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/466290-jet2-4-a.html)

sixfootfive 19th Jun 2015 14:47

Paris announcement
 
So was this just guff or has something gone wrong?

SWBKCB 19th Jun 2015 15:24

Well, Airbus were talking at Paris about having to open a new line for narrow-body production, which doesn't sound like a buyers market for A.320's.

There seems to be a bit of a gap between A.330 and A.330NEO, so there might be an opportunity to get a good deal on the last few Classics so Airbus can maintain the line, but I suspect it was actually all guff to start with (and anybody who knows won't be telling here!).

Facelookbovvered 19th Jun 2015 19:37

I can see why J2 might be motivated to switch from Boeing to Airbus with crew savings from mixed fleet operation 757/737/8 but that would require a fleet plan for A319/320 -A330 doable and its where Titan seem to be heading, but mail is still a nice little earner, are there any converted Airbus narrow body freighters?

There is now a steady supply of mid life 738's coming to the market and whilst not new, neither are the costs that go with them.

If they introduced the A330 then that would be a huge leap on the 757 and you need to use the range LBA -TFS -LBA or AGP wouldn't make sense, you couldn't fill it on the number of occasion you would need to do to cover the costs, its a long-haul aircraft, it hasn't really worked for Air Berlin, buy a couple of 330 on the used market and get it wrong and it could easily destroy J2 profitability, look at the damage that the introduction of brand new 787's have done to Norwegians profitability and they have a feeder network and huge market presence in their home market of Scandinavia.

Titan are a very different business and don't need to fly their aircraft day in day out they don't have to fill aircraft or profitably sell seats , ACIM is their business and they know it well.

So unless there is news to the contrary i don't see it, if they go with the A330 it will please spotters, not accountants or shareholders, if its about driving J2Holidays.com, then they could do a lot worse than buying long haul capacity from other operators or dedicated charters, if its good enough for Tui & Thomas Cook to use 3rd party airlines then it must make sense for J2

SWBKCB 19th Jun 2015 20:33

Both A320 and B738 pax to cargo conversions launched at Paris.

BasilFawlty 19th Jun 2015 21:26

As said before, all these new aicraft order rumours are completely rubbish, it clashes with everything in their business model and what they have done so far in the past 13 years. Period. End of story. ;)

Logprog 19th Jun 2015 23:15

Why is an order of new aircraft rubbish? Why does everyone assume that if jet2 ordered new Airbuses that the 737s would be disposed of? Why does everyone assume a Boeing order would mean Max and not NG? Why does everyone consider the mail a large part of the business?.

Jet2 has evolved and is now being heavily influenced by the holidays division, this is still relatively new and still growing. It may be that one aircraft type is not a good fit for this business (TCX and TOM don't use a single type).

The fact of the matter is Jet2 probably wouldn't be in the position it is today without using pre owned airframes. What is missed is the resource jet2 are putting into looking after these aircraft is considerable. Capital for new airlines is not easy to gain and lease costs for a new or small airline are huge.

I do not know the answers to all of the above questions but an open mind is required not constant droning about how everything is rubbish.

Mr Mac 20th Jun 2015 05:40

B Jones / Sation Calling
Well was a little dubious about the old bird but I have flown in worse and older A/C around the world. we haad seats 1A & 2A, flight was 20min early into Palma and had a good cew with Spanish fightdeck I think. Was a little reminisant of the early 80,s pushing back from Pier C at Manchester in her, as that was my first airport contract, and with the A/C and building it was like old times ! It will be intresting to see if I end up working on the next phase of their expansion at Man.

Regards
Mr Mac

Facelookbovvered 20th Jun 2015 21:28

Logpro
 
Agree 100% you can't rubbish everything, off course mail is now a small part of the business but it there all the same and probably helps underpin profitability in EDI

The wet lease of a A330 was an interesting concept, would have been interesting to see how it panned out? perhaps next year.

pug 20th Jun 2015 22:28

We believe next year will be the year they will wet lease the A330, however I don't think the plan is to ply then on long haul routes. They will be focussed on med destinations where they can max the capacity from MAN..

I believe PM is keen on the Airbus aircraft, but in terms of buying a whole fleet..? Goes against everything they've done so far, and their strategy at the moment seems to be working.

Facelookbovvered 21st Jun 2015 09:42

pug
 
Useful extra capacity so long as they are not plagued by tech issues, who will they lease it from?

pug 21st Jun 2015 12:05

No idea on that front.. I believe that is now ID's job.

Of course nothing is set in stone until an official announcement is made and the aircraft are there on the Tarmac..

Facelookbovvered 22nd Jun 2015 07:18

Where are these pilots leaving to go, i know FR are recruiting heavily, but things can't be that dire in J2 ?

JB007 22nd Jun 2015 09:20


...but things can't be that dire in J2...
Yes, they are!

mockingjay 22nd Jun 2015 11:12

Both BA and U2 are now taking on NTR direct entry pilots (U2 is taking NTR DEC - on a self sponsored basis). LS have not had to resort to NTR so there can't be a shortage of people applying to LS.

mockingjay 22nd Jun 2015 11:55

Thanks for the insight there I had no idea how bad it was. I just wonder for those going to BA, no matter how many roster changes you get surely that can't be worse than commuting forever to work out of LHR. Is is guys who have local home bases or guys who are commuting who are moving on? Maybe they're thinking that if they're going to commute forever, they may as well do it for someone else.

Flying Wild 22nd Jun 2015 12:22


Originally Posted by mockingjay (Post 9020440)
Thanks for the insight there I had no idea how bad it was. I just wonder for those going to BA, no matter how many roster changes you get surely that can't be worse than commuting forever to work out of LHR. Is is guys who have local home bases or guys who are commuting who are moving on? Maybe they're thinking that if they're going to commute forever, they may as well do it for someone else.

Those leaving are from all over the LS network. They're generally leaving for an airline where they can be fairly certain they've got career prospects, no matter how long it takes to move up the seniority ladder.
There's also the better pay & conditions, the confidence that the airline will be around in 5/10/15 years time...

The head in the sand mentality in leeds is rather galling... they need to face up to the fact that despite hating their pilot/cabin crew workforce, without us, the company doesn't work. Even small gestures such as an effective staff travel system would go a long way to regaining goodwill.

galwaypilot 22nd Jun 2015 19:47

Jet2 4
 
Yea I joined LS last year and well... Returned to my previous employer. I hope the mentality (especially in GLA) improves. I know guys who transferred from GLA to other LS bases and they said it was like working for a different company. I think the guys on the line are a great bunch of people and well it was a pleasure flying with them even if it was for only a year and a half. Jet2 has its positives and like everywhere its minuses. I think at the top it needs a new face and new way of thinking and more importantly a new and fairer way of reacting to certain situations. Lowering HR's power would be a good start. Though to be fair that's the way of the world now in most companies!

As for the aircraft order... http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Jet2.com

DjerbaDevil 23rd Jun 2015 18:17


Even small gestures such as an effective staff travel system would go a long way to regaining goodwill.
And payscales to compensate loyalty would go an even longer way and would help to reduce training costs. The company cannot buy loyalty but it can be stimulated and maintained in many imaginative ways without any extra costs and the benefits to the business would be immense.

Narrow Runway 23rd Jun 2015 19:21

Pay scales would surely have to be a cost? They cannot be waved away as anything other than just that.

Whether or not they could be covered by the theoretical lowering of training cost, they're still a cost - and impossible to quantify, as you never know 100% how many people intended to move on at any given point in time.

However, I agree on your sentiment. Many things cost little, but are sometimes just not part of a given culture.

gorter 23rd Jun 2015 19:28

Jet2 4
 
You could always slash the budget of the revolving door that is the human remains department. Their policies push out more pilots than anything else. Pilots get a payrise and more decide to stay. Win win really.


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