I know this has probably been discussed before but i wonder what the performance range is of the following aircraft in max pax capacity and say 20kg bag each.

737-300/400/700
A319
A320

Maybe even an MD80

Thanks

Is anyone able to give me an answer to the below as been searching about on the net and getting some odd answers !!

Thanks

Quick Update!
 

The Loganair Norwich flight has definatly been dropped, there is no longer any advertising and it cannot be booked.

It also looks like Dijon is unlikely to make a return this Summer, despite what Eastern said last year as it is not bookable or on the Summer Timetable, which can be seen here: http://www.southamptonairport.com/st...etable_SOU.pdf

No changes to IBZ, TUF or BCN although the flight times for Lyon and Nantes have been changed (although the PDF timetable does not currently show this); Lyon is now late morning/midday and Nantes is mid afternoon which is more attractive for leisure travellers and also the few who may use them to connect to/from!

Also Southampton remains on the Thomson website and drop-down menu although it is not bookable or operating but it makes me think they may try and re-instate PMI next summer if they can find an aircraft free to operate it.

Finally, its probably just a sign of the times and Flybe's dominance but I couldn't help but notice that there are only three routes with two airlines operating (JER, GCI and PMI, if you count the 'TCX' flight)!

Reports of a possible fire at Sou, anyone got any hard info?

Fire & March Passengers
 

Apparently it was something going wrong in the control tower, however it was sorted out fairly quickly so any disruption was minimal.

Passengers down 1.7% in March at ~127,900 although so far this year passengers are up by 0.5% and rolling 12 months show an increase of 2.8% to ~1,764,100 passengers. SOU seems to be holding up fairly well considering the way the economy is and I expect to see more notable increases in the peak Summer period with the Olympics and new routes from Air France, Flybe, Thomas Cook and Vueling.

http://www.baa.com/static/BAA_Airpor...-March2012.pdf

Was just reading about the Jetstream issue at SOU the other day - Incident: Eastern JS41 near Southampton on Apr 20th 2012, anti icing problem - putting the issue itself aside, astonished to see only 10pax? Are eastern going to regret saving this route for you SOU guys?

T3 really don't need a high LF to get a good yield. I was told a few years ago they need a mere 6 PAX per JS41 (LF = 20%) flight to break even.

6 Pax to BE on a JS41? I think someone got some math wrong somewhere. On a route like SOU-BRU, I'd suggest you'd need a little more than 6 pax to BE. But heyho, I don't know how T3 operates, 6 pax could well be their BE point.

Well yeah that was a few years ago... with fuel prices, APD now it will be a little higher but you will be surprised. Have you seen their one way fares? :ooh:

Oh yes I have, ~£150+ everytime I've checked.

Nearly as high as BE fares then...

Breaking even
 

I've heard BE themselves can break even with around 25-30 pax on a Q400 which was one of the reasons why they didn't keep any Q300's or E145's. Although APD and the economy has probably bought up that figure a little recently!

I think the low number of passengers on the Brussels flight will improve. Many regulars like me who book well in advance have flights with other airlines and will revert to T3 when they are exhausted.

Most of the others I have spoken to were not aware that the route had reopened, but they are now. Today will be my first flight on the renewed route and I am booked until the end of June for my weekly commute.

Q400
 

Makes it all the more amzing that they are getting rid of many of them Adfly. What do we know :rolleyes:

Flybe and EDINBURGH
 

Flybe's winter schedule released today, no new routes so far however EDI is apparently getting a based E175 to operate some of the EDI-SOU flights. Good to see the major domestic routes being upgraded although as always it again raises the question about what BAA are going to do about stands!!

Flybe winter schedule
 

ADFLY: the problem isn't about BAA delaying on building or modifying stands, it's the age old problem of the dominant airline (in this case Flybe) not wanting the airport capacity opened up to competing airlines.

Stands and Air France
 

St Germain - I do see your point about Flybe and their monoplay but you must remember that it is Flybe need extra stands more than anyone else as they are replacing most of the Q400's with E175's, which can only use stands 1-5 at the moment, and the 3 based E195' can only use 2-5.

When you add in Air France needing to use 1-5 for its Nantes flight (E170) and Vueling's A319 taking up either 2/3 or 3/4 3 times a week in the Summer then it is not hard to see that there is little space for flights on larger/taller aircraft to be added.

Its also worth noting that the CRJ700/900/1000 provide broadly similar capacities to the E-Jets (E195 excluded) while being able to use the Northern stands due to their low tails. Brit Air, Air Nostrum and Lufthansa Cityline all have large CRJ fleets which could work well from SOU from an operational point of view.

Finally the Air France Lyon service, following it time change has been changed to an E145, quite a big difference in capacity vs the E190! Nantes is unchanged aircraft wise with the first flight being an E145 and the rest on E170's.

Stands
 

Anyone know any more about the lighting being updated on the stands?

Perhaps this will lead to them finally being enlarged?

Stand lights are being upgraded to LED lights. LED's massively improve the spread of light across the stand and will also improve the stand marking visibility in wet conditions.

Thanks Destinationsky. Guess its one step in the right direction :ok:

Lots of flights through to the continent with Flybe and many passengers connecting through from domestic flights, yet the poor passengers have to go all the way through the terminal and back through security queues again!!

No transfer gate!!! Why??

Good old Southampton, regional limited thinking and planning as always!! :ugh:

Try this one

Operated as flight deck BRU -SOU had to get off a/c go through customs with passengers, go through security again and board the same aircraft I had left 20 mins earlier

It won't come anytime soon but I think what Southampton really needs is a new, larger terminal or failing that, a full second floor plus extension for the existing one, although that would probably be quite difficult going by the shape of the current terminal. That way a proper connections route can be set up, arrivals can be expanded with more space and desks to save people waiting outside. More checking desks could be added, possibly with some upstairs and there could be an additional security lane upstairs along with a couple more shops and more cafe space and general seats!

I say this because quite often the existing terminal gets very full especially when lots of flights are going out quite close to each other, i.e. early mornings and weekends when all of the holiday-based flights operate. Also, an upstairs departure lounge would enable a few more gates to be made possibly even with airbridges for stands 2,3 and 4. Obviously such an upgrade would only be worth doing if the additional taxiways further up the runway were added, along with more stands for larger/taller aircraft.

Finally, on a more realistic note, BAA could use the old station carpark as an additional short-stay option and this may even allow them to reposition and lengthen northwards the multi-story, bringing more spaces and leaving me room for larger/longer stands in the northen area resolving the height issues for aircraft such as the E-jets.

But, like I said at the start of the post, I can't see any of this happening too soon!

Adfly
 

Basically BAA need to pull their finger out on the airside aspect of Southampton!

The fact that arriving and departing aircraft have to do half their taxing up and down the runway whilst all other traffic waits is surely unheard of anywhere outside of a 3rd world country? :ugh:.

Their master plan shows taxiways but doubt they will be built until they finally admit they are going to have to build a 2nd terminal on the north side. :hmm:

Taxi lane debate
 

Take a look on google maps and have a look at the geography of the airport. An extended taxi way is not as simple as laying down an extra 900m of asphalt. You would need to move the existing fuel farm for starters to get an extension to the North. This would involve moving pipes and tanks and all sorts of other infrastructure. You would also need to move the existing ILS equipment to the opposite side of the runway. Whilst all of this is happening you would need to provide contingency for loss of these services again costing money. All of a sudden a few million turns into tens of millions. Who would pay for that? Pax certainly won't due to the government already piling on good ol APD and all the other taxes.

The alternative is to build an extended taxiway on the other side... You then introduce a risk of an extra runway crossing which means more risk of runway incursions with more risk of accidents...

Cambridge and London CIty require a backtrack along with a few other airports in this country.

Ideas of new terminals and extended runways etc are great ideas but you need high pax numbers to justify the massive cost involved. BAA is a large company and profitable but everyone seems to forget that the investment money ultimately comes from the customer... If pax numbers are low you either make the best of what you have or you raise the cost to the consumer and face losing them... Regardless of whether or not BAA have sold Edinburgh and about to inherit millions from its sale, each airport is in control of its own budget and raising its own profits so it's not as simple as sharing the sale money.

Quite a bit of taxying on the runway goes on at Luton!

destinationsky - a fair point regarding a full length taxiways although I was thinking more along the lines of the one detailed in the master plan, which was positioned around halfway between the existing one and the end of the runway, presumably to avoid the stated issues and costs. It would also only require ~100m of tarmac so should not cost too much and would greatly reduced the problems with backtracking and holding at busier times.

Destinationsky
 

As Adfly has pointed out the masterplan on Southampton's site seems to suggest that a full length taxi way could be built without the movement of any other infrustructure. At the moment there is only one way on and off the runway :eek:. 100m of tarmac at the end of the stands would save countlless time over the course of a day.

You are right with your assumption on LCY but then reclaiming land from the sea is just about the most expensive thing you can do. Plus cambrige is hardly getting the few hundred rotations a day that Sou is getting in all due respect.

The fact that Sou's main source of business by a country mile is investing in aircraft that can only be accomoated on 4 of Sou's stands tells me that the issue needs to be adressed.

You're certainly right that a 2nd terminal is pie in the sky though!

Regular deals being held on stand while the aircraft on several mile final comes in to land, and then taxis in to stand.
Seems also regular for only one, maybe a max of two aircraft allowed to push or taxi at any time.
Me thinks SOU has reached capacity and air traffic being ultra cautious and the new push back points only slows it all down more!!

A quick look at the departures today shows basically every flight leaving late (as with most days (especally with Flybe!)), I know its been mentioned over and over but the extra taxiway/runway entrance/exit would also sort this out, as there is comfortably room for 4 or 5 aircraft to wait to depart from Runway 20 or after arriving on 02 to wait for a stand without blocking any of the stands. This should not be a problem up the other end as there is already room for around 4 aircraft to wait without getting in the way.

since when did BAA ever invest in making flights easier???

they are a company who rents out shop space, restaurants & car parking areas

Heathrow Harry
 

Phase 2 of BAA's masterplan as detailed in your post hasn't been swung into action yet - currently theres only 3 shops, 2 of which are Whsmiths and the other which is Duty Free!! However knowing BAA they will probably build about 20 more shops over stands 1-5 soon!!! :E:ugh:

Eastern and Dijon
 

showing today on the BAA SOU arrivals is T37401 from Dijon departing as the T37402 back to Dijon....but Dijon is still not showing on the Eastern sites as bookable?

It is all very well building new taxiways etc but the ATC system in place needs to know how best to make the most of such assets. Personally I feel that this is not the case with the current system.

If ATC are too risk adverse to place a departing aircraft infront on an aircraft on a 7mile final or allow a late landing clearance, what hope does the airport have.

Djion
 

Dijon has been coming up on the live flight info ever since most of the peak summer routes started, at the same times as last year but it is always shown as cancelled, which probably means thats its been loaded onto the schedule as operating but Eastern must've decided to cancel it at the last minute presumably just before it could be loaded into their booking engine. Or somebody has just forgotten about it!

It does seem unusual for Eastern to not be operating it this year though as it apparently did well last year with loads mostly in the 20's (On a J41), plus it was extended and Eastern also said that the route would return for this year in April!

Flybe to codeshare with KLM from SOU
 

Looks like the chances of KLM operating there own flights from SOU has gone down the drain, but a partnership with Flybe is quite a logical option and will hopefully boost the AMS route from SOU, I already notice for the winter the early morning flight is now an E195!

Link: Southampton Airport: Southampton Airport goes long haul

It's quite regular for the E195 to go to AMS in the winter on the AM flight.

Destinationsky/Adfly

Local and corporate BAA management have a history of missed opportunities. Firstly when the original airport site was being sold off it was done so in three packages, the current airport site, the area including the Post Office Building/Premier Inn etc and the northeast corner where the VOR is sited. They dismissed the Post Office building area as too expensive-where better to extend the current Terminal and apron, not build a remotely sited new one. Second time around they bought the northeast corner-compare the cost of a new Terminal there (especially duplication of services) and the logistics of transferring passengers between terminals. It will need either be a costly tunnel around the north runway end-caution for the water table and the natural gas main, or a road with traffic lights due to proximity of the runway.

During the time that the runway was being re-surfaced, with the asphalt plant on site a figure of £40K was mentioned to add the missing taxiway link at the north end of TWY "A" to intersect the runway about 400 metres south of 20 threshold. Not ideal but would have minimised the backtrack on 20, permitted most landing traffic on 02 to vacate without backtracking, remove the log-jam around TWY "B" permitting pushbacks from Stands 7-9 with traffic at the 20 hold, and permitting arrivals to get onto Stands 7-12. The good folks in ATC (run at the time by BAA) pleaded and pleaded to go ahead, money spent on other cosmetic projects in the terminal building.

The cost of a new link now? Probably in the millions? May be Flybe can sponsor it after they do their sums on what the delays cost them?

Waiting on stand for 10-15 minutes is not uncommon, especially as several flights are scheduled to depart at the same times.
Also regularly wait on stand for the aircraft at 7 miles to land and taxi past. Seems a maximum of two aircraft only to taxi after the pushback incident.

Also the amount of fuel wasted holding to depart and wasted by Solents extended vectoring and the limited airspace available, must run a hefty bill for Flybe.

Compared to larger airports like Lgw and man, the movement of air traffic seems very slow, inefficient and cautious.

Great news on the code share with klm, can fly to lax from sou for less than LHR!

Definitely signs of improvement lately, I guess we will see the standard duty free/departure lounge make over at the expense of the long standing stands/taxi way issue :ok: