Oh dear I think you better put your coat on

Ian B

This has possibly already happened which could go some of the way to explain the total stagnation of the FR base at BHX: other airports must give them a far longer reduced fee period or charge nothing at all to make some of the marginal routes that FR do from other airports viable, i'm thinking for example of the almost wholly leisure and/or VFR routes like LBA-RIX, EMA-SVQ and so on. Either that or folk using BHX have no further desire than to either chase the summer sun or collect air miles with the Star Alliance.

As for becoming an FR free zone, despite the fact that IMO FR have done virtually nothing for the route map from BHX, despite their stagnation, they would leave a big hole with no one to fill it, which is a pretty dire position for BHX to be in

More positively, there is a rumour that Mahan will restart in Sept, twice weekly to/from Tehran, although I have a horrible feeling this rumour has more than a sniff of eau d'Armavia about it - lets hope its good news

GayFriendly

With regard to any special deals that FR did with BHX, I seem to recall they chucked the proverbial teddy out of their corporate cot many years when BHX withdrew a deal they had at the time, and they ran a very limited network with included Gerona and Reus.

They then, of their own volition returned to BHX, without a special deal. I doubt they got many favours financially from BHX when they returned a few years ago, and if that is the case, then that may go some way to explain their expansion at rather more generous (desperate?) airports. I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if they returned to MAN more through commercial necessity than because of a spectacular deal from MAG.

I guess we'll never know.

No deal done at Manchester, they came back on worse terms than when they
ran off crying last time I am told

Ian B

Good to see - airports must be courageous and stand up to them.

Either a route is viable or it isnt. There is no magic and markets cannot be 'rustled up' from nowhere.

If I was an airport MD I would much rather do a fair deal with someone like BE and work with them to build a sustainable network where everyone benefits rather than be held to ransom by Ryanair and have a network of non-routes with other carriers scared away.

Edinburgh seems to manage quite well with BE and FR, both are growing in fact, whilst other carriers are not scared away so why not other airports, especially with a catchment area the size of Birmingham. EasyJet, Norwegian, Germanwings etc are all present at Edinburgh, so too LH & BA.

rpmac:

Edinburgh is one of the worlds great tourist destinations, even more so since it became a "real" capital city, so there's inbound tourism aplenty.

Same (sadly) can't be said for Birmingham or Manchester.

I have just read that China Eastern have launched a weekly HAM-PVG A330 service as an extension to their daily FRA service. Is this not the sort of thing that BHX should be going for rather than spending millions on a runway extension? OK so its still a one stop service (against the trip down the M40 for the non stop BA or VS from LHR) but that is surely a more viable way for BHX to get a flight to China than a non stop big bird going three quarters empty? Then again if MAN can't attract CX back as a one stop via ZRH as rumoured on the MAN thread then perhaps China Eastern and such like will forever remain a dream at BHX

As for the FR debate, there is now a did they/didn't they do a deal on the MAN thread. If there was no deal done to get FR to set up at BHX then it would seem there are few profitable European routes (apart from those served already) as FR have settled in the main now on sun destinations. You can't blame them for trying, it was an audacious start, scheduled flights to Sicily, Corsica as well as cities like PSA, NYO, PIS, BLQ, TRF and OPO - if FR can't get routes like these to work then I doubt anyone can. Why these sort of routes don't work from BHX and do from others, well that is another very big question......

And finally - BHX has Stratford and Warwick on its doorstep so its not entirely devoid of inbound tourism potential however I would bet my bottom dollar that the majority of inbound tourists visiting these attractions who did fly to the UK came in via LON or perhaps MAN.....BHX has never as far as i'm aware made anything of the amrketing potential of Shakespeare, no surprise really they seem more interested in Cornish pasty heritage right now

Gay Friendly - brilliant post, you've hit the nail on the head, well done.

Tourists
 

Warwick and Stratford are big tourist destinations but you only have to take a look at the coach parks to realise that they are in the main day trip destinations from London bases and that tourists do not use them as the base for thier UK trips, therefore the passengers arrive at London.

Inbound tourist wise I dont think that MAN doeas any better apart from the short hops for the footie teams.


Centre cities

Manchester gets alot of inbound tourism and i`m sure I read that it is now only behind London and Edinburgh for actual numbers inbound through airport as a lot of of long haul pax especially from Asia are coming to Northwest England
I must try and find where I read this and link it

Ian B

With the passengers numbers at MAN there would be something serioulsy wrong if it was not third. London and Scotland are obvious, it all depends how far behind MAN is and how far in front it is of the of the next area otherwise being third means nothing.

It still does not mean that there is a large percentage of pax via MAN inbound as tourists.

Centre cities

Manchester inbound vs Birmingham
 

Mancheter has one of the globes largest brands not only bringing tourists to the city for games, but most importantly keeping the city on the global stage in terms of consumer awareness.

Consumers in growing world markets don't think about Birmingham as a place they want to visit. They hardly understand that Villa, West Brom etc are near to this city.

They all know of Man Utd, starting to know about Man City and ironically also all know of Liverpool.

Airlines like Air Asia X are all about serving rapidly growing disposable incomes in Malaysia where these consumers want to shop in Europe. Especially in places their friends have heard of. This is a reason why markets in South East Asia have huge potential for inbound tourism.

I don't think you can blame BHX football clubs or lack of for the number of inbound tourists, Stratford is a day trip from London and people will not fly to BHX just for a couple of days in Shakespeare county, nice as it is.

BHX seems to be doing just fine on the financial front, Ryanair clearly have been more successful at EMA

It will be interesting to see what leakage BHX loose to EMA with the new EMA-FRA service, whilst its only on an ERJ it used to be very popular when last operated some years back

Regarding the effect of the new EMA-FRA service on LH from BHX, living where I do, I will exchange the drive to BHX for the EMA cattle shed terminal, and poor car parking facilities for trips to Nürnberg, if the connections are usable from EMA.

Looking at the EMA-FRA-EMA schedule, the outbound connections look usable, but returning, the last weekday inbound will mean a very early departure from NUE, so it may well be that it won't work for me, and therefore because of the nature of the FRA hub, it may make it less attractive than it could have been to many would be refugees from BHX.

It is also interesting to see that so far there doesn't seem to be a code share on LH, but perhaps that will be set up in the next few days. Current connections from EMA are showing via BRU.

EMA-FRA & Ryanair
 

Facelookbovvered

There has to be some loss and probably more than likely at the business end but at least with flybe gone from BHX-FRA, LH have the route to themselves.

The only strange point is that LH stated that the days of the 50 seater were over and Eurowings and Cityline are in the process and getting rid of their
CRJ's. I trust they meant for point to point traffic and not feeding a hub. Although that is even changing in the US to some degree.

I am more interested to know where the 145 is coming from for the EMA service but I guess time will tell.

Ryanair

The Monday to Thursday evening Dublin and Thursday afternoon service
have changed to Dublin based aircraft. This only needed to happen on Thursday to accommodate the Malta and I assume the other changes are operational and to do with crewing, as I am told not to expect new services.

The FR set-up at BHX seems very straightforward now with the four based in summer, three in winter operating core sun and Polish routes with the occasional new route (such as MPL now BIQ previously) which will operate with discount fees for a year or two (sliding scale) and is then replaced by another similar route plus with as little as possible overlap with EMA.

Note BHX only has a few less services per week in winter despite the massive gulf in summer. That speaks volumes.

Pete

Stick to the point
 

Bagso

I do not respond to your drivel because this thread is 'airlines, airports and routes'. Get a life!

Your diatribe has got nothing to do with the subject matter. End of.

Delta154

You're right, whether Manchester or Birmingham is "bestest" and each has it's strong and weak points (though some are unprepared to accept there's anything weak about their city) the problem with the UK is that there's only one game in town - LONDON.

Germany, as I have alluded to in the past is a different case - it is a federal nation where each state (certainly in the old western Germany) is roughly equal, and the major airports in each of the major states bears this out.

Little interest
 

ATNotts

At last sensible discussion. You are quite right, the UK but more pointedly England has suffered for generations by having a metropolitan leaning. No matter how much provincial England seeks to adopt a more German approach to international services and facilities, the more seems to be centred in the capital.

A point in question is the siting of the Olympic Games. While the East End of London certainly has its problems with unemployment, so too do other areas and regions of the country.

So where did they site the games -- in the very spot where it is most difficult for the rest of the country to get to.

Where does Germany play most of its international football matches - Munich. Is that the capital? No. Where did we site the new national stadium, no not the centre of the country, but again in London.

Only politicians will change this attitude, but I fear they have little interest.

You'd be very surprised how many passengers do come up from North London, far easier and quicker to get to BHX than LHR if you're on or near the mainline rail network or can connect to it from the Northern Line.