British Airways: risk of turbulence on Willie Walsh’s flight path
 

my heart bleeds...........

As with the other majors, it is Merge-or-Die. The problem for BA is that it always wants to be the boss of any merger. All of the discussed mergers have come to nought. The only way that they have grown is by acquisition (or forced merger by UK govt in the past).

If they retain this approach (based on the past this is inevitable) then they will eventually be acquired. How long this will take is impossible to say as there are still too many imponderables: fuel, staffing issues and the recession have yet to settle into a clear pattern.

'British Virgin' has a certain ring to it.

:) FOK

And, he absolutely should.
If present BA staff, who apparently have had it far too good for far too long, fail to understand, then change will come, whether they like it or not....and their is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

BA pilots found out the hard way, I expect it is now time for the cabin crews to fall in line, or be shown the door.
And, don't give me all this happy horses**t about...'the customer service will suffer'.

Bring in new faces, presto, problem solved.
SQ, years ago, did the very same.
They signed CC to short term contracts, and rotated in new faces on a regular basis.
Time for BA to do the same.
WW is on the right track, make no mistake.
Staff will either comply, or can consider themselves...gone.

And SQ is such a great place to work!!! But of course, 411a is 'managemet' as he often tells us, so don't expect any sympathy for the underworked overpaid pilot from him.

But it's not just BA who are going to feel the pinch. The major US carriers who were protected from the natural progression of economics by Chapter 11 after 9/11 are not going to be so lucky this time. The high fuel cost is here to stay and the long term prognosis for the Uniteds of this world is bleak. let alone any operator still flying aviation dinosaurs like the L1011!

Strangely enough, Dan, for certain types of operation, the 'ole TriStar still makes a handsome profit for its operators, mainly on a seasonal basis.

Make no mistake, CC are a dime a dozen, and always will be. Many charter operators hire fresh new faces, put 'em through a major airlines training course (oddly enough, a profit center for that major carrier), and these new folks perform just fine. Satisfaction all around.

Don't make the mistake of considering CC anywhere in the same boat as experienced pilots.
Pilots take far longer to train than CC...not in the same league by any stretch of the imagination.

If BA pilots could be brought in line, CC should be a cinch.
Will the concerned CC like it?
Most likely not, so they have the option of packing their bags and moving on.

Simple as that.

Unfortunately the CC at BA are heavily unionised and very militant. A CC strike would be very bad press for BA and the cabin crew would have walsh over a barrel if they decide to walk out.

CC are ten a penny and can be replaced slowly but not the whole lot in one go. BA CC like to tell us how they deliver a good product, but a recent airline customer survey says otherwise !

The problem is the strong position the BA CC are in !

I have just had a firm booking in Sept ex TLS moved to another flt/day, just as an exercise I looked through the booking computer & already BA is cutting flts. It appears the middle flts on the shorthaul destinations are most at risk. So if this becomes a trend then 30% less crews will be needed for the winter schedules.

Why is it "merge or die" ? The problem with agreed thinking is that it's often wrong. More accurately it's "merge if the right partner and synergies are there" like Air France / KLM, not for the sheer Hell of it.

Well 411A it seems that you belong in a different era. No doubt you could be replaced by a cheaper East European.

Yes pilots take longer to train than cabin crew obviously, but there is no mystery to flying. Aren't Boeings designed to be flown by two Africans anyway as a BA pilot once told me?

The current oil price shock is not an excuse to get everyone on new contracts. It has happened before. Far more airlines have gone bust due to poor management decisions than employee costs....LAKER, PAN AM, EASTERN, BRANIFF, SWISSAIR.

As for pilot costs, when BA have tried low cost operations in the past like AML, the drivers were still on their big mainline salaries. Why didn't they volunteer to take a pay cut?

As far as the Cabin Crew union 'BASSA' being militant, perhaps a few stewardesses may have more balls in dealing with Mr Walsh than the windy BALPA lot, who will now be screwed after their latest failure over Openskies.

... so flying (aquiring) new(er) acft is always cheaper? If you own an older aircraft outright, then it is in some cases more beneficial...

Depends on who operates the dinosaur, where in the world they operate - and where to/from and on what terms and conditions. Not all crews are paid Birdseed Airways salaries (Conditions)...

BA are finding it increasingly difficult to compete - their home base is now 'Open Season', rather than 'Open Skies'...

Bring on the changes, challenges and in the extreme, the cuts. Simply its change or dissapear...

Birdseed. You have failed to notice the £750 m profit that BA made last year. BA has no problem competing, it is an extremely profitable business. However management numbers have burgeoned and are a drag on the business. Every weekend and bank holiday aircraft still take off and land without them at their desks.


The problem with you pilots pontificating, is that the passengers take no notice at all in what YOU do, except when you stuff the aircraft in and the oxygen masks fall down. That's the only time passengers make any comment about flight crew.

It is the cabin crew who win and keep the customers.

Quite likely not, an there are not many L10 current Captains around anymore, and certainly no one is training any.
Besides, management stays, like it or not.

Now, as to your...
Laker.
Strange you should mention them.
They had the very best management one could hope for, good employee morale, but were undone by collusion of the likes of BA, TWA, Pan Am versus McD Douglas.
Sir Freddie proved it in court, and collected a trunk load of cash from the offending airlines.
Eastern Air Lines.
Gross mis-calculation by the IAM (this would be the mechanics union for those that don't know), nothing to do with EAL management.
The airline simply folded up when the IAM did not accept the terms offered.
Braniff.
Nothing to do with airline management there, either.
Predatory pricing by AA did 'em in....twice.

What we have is an airline (BA, in this case) that needs to trim its payroll burden in a big way, just to stay in business.
The shareholders are going to hold BA management responsible for doing so....and make no mistake, it will be done.
The BA pilots thought otherwise, and they promptly folded like a house of cards, just as I predicted.
The BA cabin crew will do likewise, it just might take a little longer.

All these airline unions are swimming uphill in the present fuel price scenario, and I would suggest it is they who are thinking of a bygone era.
These unions had better wake up...or their members will be out of a job in record time.

Like the message?
Probably not, but them's the facts.

No they won't. You seem to underestimate them. Are you forgeting the last strike ballot? 96% in favour !! And what did BA do cancel over 300 flights, and what did the cabin crew do, call off the strike the night before. BA looked so stupid cancelling 300 flights when in fact their cabin crew were never on strike! And by doing so managment managed to waste about 50 million pounds.

BA cabin crew would prefer to shut down the airline rather than give up, why? Because they don't have much to loose , specially the newer ones( a majority). The worst thing that could happen is that they end up with these new T&Cs in a new airline, the best thing they can hope for is that they will manage to maintain much of what they have, so why not take the gamble?

What airlines should start doing is raising the ticket prices to meet the fuel price and then see what happens, maybe after all people keep flying specially BA customer profile, not so much your average FR pax.


Why airlines insit of making money by reducing cost? And not so much put as much energy in the first place on generating revenue?

A typical union member response.
Don't count on it, bubba....not likely to happen.
BA management is likely to chip away a little at a time, to achieve the desired objective.
They have the funds to do so, unions don't...as the foolish BA pilots found out, much to their dismay, I'm sure.

411 Well, I see from your profile that your location is USA. The fact is that all these unions have managed at least in BA to maintain decent working conditions for crew, not like what you get in the USA, where the NTSB has to issue warning on crew fatigue to your FAA!

I seems to me you envy other peoples TCs and envy is not good for health purpouses...

Time will tell, what is clear is that on theses side of the Atlantic we will always have better term and conditions since we fold 15 years later than you guys do.

411I am not a member of any union at the moment.
And the only foolish here is you, disregarding the fact that BA's TCs have always set a trend among the industry. You should start having more respect for these proffesionals before you insult anyone.

Why not join Naomi Campbell on anger managment classes?? It will do you good.

I will not engage anymore with you , is simply not worth it in this case.

Yep, and this, I suspect, is about to change in a rather large way.
How could BA management do this?
One way would be to...
Start hiring/training now, for new CC, to be ready for the fall season of cutback flights.
It would have been better to have started in April, but now is nearly as favorable.
Then, keep these new folks on retainer, for when the time comes.
When that time is ready, lay down the gauntlet to the present CC, and if they strike, the company simply swings into operation with the new folks, already trained....all in accordance with the law, of course.
You say the law won't allow this?
The BA pilots also thought so, and look how far they got.
Quite frankly, the sad thing is, the unionized CC folks just don't presently realise how this might be achieved, and how devious the company management might/will become.

Kinda funny, actually, when you think about it.

You don't seem to understand that there will be a strike if BA recruit a single cabin crew on a a contract with different terms and conditions to the agreed ones now.

BA managment are not the brightest of the people in the world but they are not stupid and they know thay are playing with fire.

What makes BA? It's pilots, crew , ground staff and little more.