I agree, sad news and my sympathies to those affected.

That said, and even leaving aside the question of oil prices, 420 employees to operate just 3 planes makes even Alitalia look like a lean and streamlined business.

Was it ever viable with these staffing levels?

I was wondering. Maybe they meant 45 or 54. 450 is an awful lot of pay-packets.

...and perhaps that's all part of the plan. If the prospective investor baulked at the size of the staff pay-packet before it surely looks a lot more attractive now (i.e. nil). Maybe the Administrators agreed with him.

You can bet this has figured in any negotiations and therefore what remains of the Company now, the bare bones, perhaps has a better chance of being resurrected than it did yesterday.

The question of whether crews would actually want to re-join Silverjet Mark 2 in any slimmed-down form, and the legalities of re-employing some but not all, is of course another matter entirely.

I'm afraid that, while sadly livelihoods are at stake on the front line, to the financiers of Switzerland, Monaco and Bermuda like the fellow involved here it's all a money-making game...

A good number of these knights in shining armour are just assets strippers. Most don't know how airlines work and all they see is three huge pieces of valuable assets, namely, the aircraft. When they find out the airline don't own them, but lease instead, things cool quickly. The moment a leasing company say they want money, they're off like a rocket.

I don't hold much hope of a Silverjet MkII. I feel that staff were given a false hope, its something the administrators have to do, however remote the chance of a sale going through.

I am a bit confused here, one part of the document says the staff are sacked, the other says that they have been "Formally made redundant".
I thought that these are two subtle but completely different ways of loosing your job.
Very sad for the staff. Good luck one and all.
450 staff!!! F M

True, but in time honoured fashion, the media wont let relevant details get in the way of a good story

:{The Administrator has a legal obligation to resolve employment issues within 14 days of going into administration, i.e. by today, and if that is not possible the only options available to them are to make staff redundant or to take on the liability (and cost) of those contracts themselves.

Stop.....Companies have not been allowed to sack employees since around 1999.:=

What I mean is 'sack on the spot'

If the SJ staff were made redundant with no notice, That is still classed as a 'sacking on the spot':=

If the SJ management said something like, I am very sorry to tell you you are being given a month's notice on full pay - then that is within employment law even if the agreement is not in writing.:D

But to say to someone your contract has ended on the spot,And no notice given Is a breach of employment law.

In a previous life I worked for a Leading Solicitors in Leeds.

And that is what I learnt about employment law, Although I wasn't an actual solicitor just a Solicitor/fee earner's Assistant.

By the sound of what SJ have done today, It could be a case for a tribunal??:hmm:

So SJ Management watch out - You have just dug yourself a 'deeper' grave.:=

A SAD DAY - Friday 13th
 

I hope that the MINORITY of posters on Pprune who seem to wish the demise of airlines and jobs are pleased with themselves.

Some of the attacks on Silverjet (and others) have been quite disgraceful.:ugh:

Easier to go and stack shelves at Tesco's thesedays than work for some unstable Airline.:hmm:

It's not about having a career anymore, It's about keeping the Banks & financers away.:hmm:

Yes they have, But the SJ management have done no favours to it's loyal waiting on hand staff.:=

I guess Lawrence *unt and his fellows will be running through the fields now???:ugh:

Non pilot. Non lawyer speaking.
BYALPHAINDIAAs I understand it, when a company goes bankrupt, then different rules apply. If you are 'sacked' it is because of a misdemeanour on your part that would be part of the company dismissing you from service with a bad record.

If you are made redundant, there is no blemish on your service with them and a future employer will be glad to talk to you. Further, it would (probably) make the staff a creditor for wages and redundancy payment - in the event of their being and cash left when all is done and dusted.

Lastly it also, I think, may affect how you are entitled to social welfare payments in the UK.

Tribunal
 

Went through this in '04 when my employer went pop.

The staff did collectively take it to tribunal and won. Lack of consultation of
redundencies (90 days I believe). One simple on-line form, but sorry no idea of the link.

Government protected award of about 2K each, but it does take a long time.

Size of company and curcumstances about the same.

Sorry if the rules have changed, but do some digging and give it a punt.


Very best of luck to you all,

Bored

The "All Business Class" airline concept is impractical reality
 

Dedicated "all business class" airlines have come and gone, irrespective of fuel costs or economic constraints.

It's a flawed concept because travellers paying premium fare have an expectation of flying in separate class. When the entire cabin is just one class, there is no separation; all the seats are the same size, everyone is treated equal. There is no stimulus, nor "reward," for having forked out the extra cash to be visually separated from "cattle" class.

Furthermore, because of the large number of all business class seats in the wide body cabin, there are fewer cabin attendants per passenger than in conventional, much smaller, First/Business classes. Consequently, individual service and customer attention is less focused. :{

Unfortunately SAM2M some of those posters feel for the staff who thru no fault of thier own are now out of a job, however the way silverjet management treated flyjet crew was disgusting, they were lied too in the beginning, and were told that they would have to apply for jobs within the company as how can you compare a limo to a taxi, ( that did loads for the morale) and how many FJE cabin crew were taken on by SJ?, Thats right very few out of all the FJE crew.

GlueBall

The "All Business Class" airline concept is impractical reality

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dedicated "all business class" airlines have come and gone, irrespective of fuel costs or economic constraints.

It's a flawed concept because travellers paying premium fare have an expectation of flying in separate class. When the entire cabin is just one class, there is no separation; all the seats are the same size, everyone is treated equal. There is no stimulus, nor "reward," for having forked out the extra cash to be visually separated from "cattle" class.

Furthermore, because of the large number of all business class seats in the wide body cabin, there are fewer cabin attendants per passenger than in conventional, much smaller, First/Business classes. Consequently, individual service and customer attention is less focused.


GlueBall.

Your sweeping statement appears to have a large hole.

PrivatAir have just flown their one millionth all business class passenger and customer feedback shows consistent 100% passenger satisfaction.

Where is 'the flaw'?!

(My thoughts are with the excellent SJ staff)

Concord was a one class aircraft, all in one cabin and that seemed to do alright.:confused:

I'd like to buy silverjet for £1 as ING bought barings bank all those years ago :}

Errr, I don't think so.
Concorde never made a profit in any real sense of the word, it was completely subsidized by the French/British governments and their respective large airlines.
Nice to look at certainly, and quite an aeronautical achievement...without a doubt.
But profitable?
Ahhh, no.

Privatair do not sell under their own name, but under the disguise of people like Lufthansa and operate under their prefix

That is the huge difference

...and there is the 'small' matter of frequent flyer rewards. One assumes that most business class flyers are employees or (well-off) self-employed, and they ain't going to give up the perk of 'airmiles' in a hurry.

Trying to promote business-class service out of secondary airports such as Luton and Stansted is also not easy.

Did Silverjet actually do anything wrong? I don't really think so. They had a good package that was working well, but have unfortunately felt the pain , as all of us are to some degree, (both at work and in the home) of the crippling rise in oil prices . If oil prices had not reached the pretty much unforseen levels they are today i have every confidence SJ would still be here, and still growing. It was out of their hands, like it is for all of us, and there is little they could do.
I think it's a great shame that in a fairly short space of time the fortunes of the western world has been turned on it's head, and SJ amongst others have had to pay the price.

Someone has been living in the clouds for a long time
 

Spinaker you mentioned....I feel that staff were given a false hope,

staff, press, passengers, creditors, markets, shareholders the list is endless

who keeps giving this false hope?

avrodamoI suggest that they launched at the wrong time. The UK economy had been on the Up for some ten years and was overdue for a down turn. The property market boom was clear to all across that time and other indicators too. To launch as the the third biz-only airline (following Eos and MaxJet) and at the time when the UK (and others) were teetering on the brink - that was wrong. The fuel price might have closed them early but it was the wrong time.

Paxboy is right. While everyone has sympathy for the staff involved, all the focus on increasing fuel prices is only one side of the equation.

If you don't deliver the revenue to match the costs, e.g. fancy new dedicated terminal at LTN for one service a day, then the numbers will never stack up. Perhaps the failure of 3 start-ups of this nature shows that the business model is fundamentally flawed!

All well and good having fantastic customer feedback, but no wonder given the service being provided for the fares being charged....

Not only was it the fuel price that crippled us, but comments from the likes of mike stoddard lost the faith of the passengers of Silverjet. They were canceling flights and even not buying tickets because they believed they would go under. When that statement that was full of incorrect information came out, share prices dropped and so did bum's on seats on the aircraft.

Up and Up

Are you blaming Mike Stoddart for the demise of SJ?

There are certain individuals who are able to critically analyse the product and its likelihood of success: there probability of SJ lasting more than 36 months was ZERO.

Wrong product, wrong place.

Had SJ done a tad more research they would have discovered seating solutions which would have generated more revenue without compromising service. Equally they would have seen that a 2 class service would have had more chance of survival than a single class and that Luton was the wrong choice of gateway.

You were all sucked in by smart presentations and great words: wanna buy shares in my airline?

Quote:
PrivatAir have just flown their one millionth all business class passenger and customer feedback shows consistent 100% passenger satisfaction.

Where is 'the flaw'?!

Wellington Bomber

Privatair do not sell under their own name, but under the disguise of people like Lufthansa and operate under their prefix

That is the huge difference


Exactly my point - GlueBall states that ''all business class is a flawed concept'' - it is not true. This operator is running an excellent and successful all premium business.

As an aside, the following is from the BBC Business website report re Silverjet's demise:


"...Eos filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in April due to "insufficient costs"..."

That's certainly a new approach to business!

Sorry to hear the investors pulled out.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=13018

Still breathing
 

Seems that another group is looking at them.

"A sale is still possible, but there's no certainty. We are talking to them and to other people as well."

ArabJet, a planned premium class airline based in Dubai, is also interested in buying SilverJet, a person familiar with the situation told Reuters on Monday.

However, a deal is more difficult as time goes by, following the staff redundancies at the company's centres in London, New York and Dubai, Atkinson said.

"The more time that goes by, the more difficult it will be to reach a sale of any kind," Atkinson said. "If anything needs to happen, it has to be in the next week, if it happens at all."

Better read your history books again.
Once the BA Concorde operation was re-organized in 1982/83, it consistently made a profit almost to the end in 2003, without subsidies.
Not a huge one.... there were not enough aircraft and not enough flights, but the operation definitely more than paid for itself!

Air France was a different story.

The 3rd party being reffered to was the CAA :mad:

The CAA were not satisfied with the funding being offered to rescue the airline and thus were blocking the application - hence forcing the airline into this position.

They are living upto there monkier... Cease All Aviation

Great shame, good luck to all crews looking for seats now...

ChristiaanJ/411A:

Concorde never repaid its development costs, which is what 411A might be thinking of. However, as ChristiaanJ says, the BA operation, once those costs were written off, was definitely profitable.

However, I bet it would be struggling now, given the cost of fuel. That's what really clobbered it back in the '70s.

Not any more. Air Transport Intelligence is quoting CEO today that all attempts to find funding have stopped and S'jet is to be wound up.

"Wodka", the third party was also the aircraft owners who were also not happy with the deal being offered.
Also "QUOTE". Lawrence Hunt has abandoned efforts to save the airline following the collapse of a rescue deal on Friday.

I don't think the CAA could have done anything else, if the medium term funding wasn't there then they couldn't let it restart, simple as. They want to avoid an airline starting up again then running out of money again in 5 months which is a real possibility without the money in the bank.

370 staff for 3 aircraft and oil at $139 a barrell with no hedging, would you buy it ?.The business model was flawed at the outset.Good luck to all who have lost their positions and hope they find work soon.

I usually see that confusion....
The development costs were financed by the governments, and BAC/Aérospatiale, on the basis of a break-even of about 150 aircraft, IIRC.
British Airways and Air France were only two of the clients, and it was not their business to recoup the entire development costs!!
Admittedly they got a couple of aircraft cheap, in the end, even if it wasn't the £1 each as a certain RB likes to pretend, but in the long run that was not very relevant compared to the operating costs.

It was 9/11, the Iraq war, the rise in maintenance cost, and a few other items that led to the premature retirement in 2003, even before the oil went through the roof. The $140 barrel of today would just have been the last nail in the coffin.

Yes/no. She didn't stop flying until thirty years later!

silvermuppet
 

Have another read of my post, and there the answer will be found. :ok: