Random flyer last seen eating hat
 

So BD01 is at an end I'm told

:(

BMI axes city?s London route - Evening Times | News

BA will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Unless LH is about to announce something a la FRA...:oh:

Glasgow
 

Radio 5 Live reporting BMI have axed LHR- Glasgow

Random flyer....I hope your hat was tasty!

Whilst I can understand the point-to-point traffic not giving the yields it once did, I am very surprised that given the lack of alternate connectivity to other star hubs (apart from a once daily ERJ135 to CPH), STAR are now basically abandoning service to one of the UKs largest cities and urban areas!

BMI has announced that it is suspending flights between Glasgow and Heathrow.:mad::mad::mad::mad:


The airline said "a number of employees" are at risk of redundancy following the decision to withdraw its seven daily flights from March 27.

The firm blamed an increase in BAA charges for domestic passengers, which it said makes the loss-making route "unsustainable".

Coupled with the cost of an additional regulator fee, the airline said the charges being imposed have increased from £13 per passenger to £22.

however they are expanding else where:

A "stronger focus" will be put on international routes. The decision to suspend the route coincides with the announcement of new routes from Heathrow to Bergen and Stavanger in Norway, and to Casablanca and Marrakech in Morocco for summer.

Oh well, quite a few posters on this forum have been pretty wrong in saying that this would never happen.

Glasgow again suffers. Competition on its main trunk route has gone and BA hold the monopoly and lets see how long it takes for a sharp increase in prices especially for business travel.

Did BMI do enough to make the most of this route? Maybe they did but it is now all heresay...but a loss of amillion a month is just ridiculous.

Up to 7 flights a day loss with connections is a major loss. While many have said that SA connections via FRA or whatever may start from GLA I think that is just wishful thinking. Looks as if that "dead looking" airport - well certainly was last 3 times I have passed through it - is set for another fall.


Nivsy

nef - don't forget Continental and US Airways are in Star, so at least the Americas, particularly North America are well covered by Star still ;)

Is US not just seasonal?

The big problem as I see it is the costs and frequency even for North America.

Recent checks that I have doneissometimes an eye opener looking at the price going state side from GLA compared to routing via LHR. Also its one a dayfrom GLA - make the most of it - with your chosen carrier.

Onward connections US side means identifying your bags etc on arrival state side.....going via LHR - checked in to final destination without seeing it again - unless ofcourse having to connect again domestically states side but the choice of US destinations from LHR are high.

It is just all a pain for Scottish travellers....:ugh:

Midland (G)One November Lima
 

The US Airways and United nee Continental services are not really pushed as STAR connections. Indeed I wonder if Air Canada might re-consider a seasonal return now Zoom has gone and bmi is no longer an option. I doubt BA will hike fares too high, the idea that the Shuttle is a cash cow seems unlikely nowadays. They keep cutting frequency and shifting capacity to LCY. I maintain that punting non connecting traffic into LCY was one of the drivers that brought perenial loss maker GLA-LCY back for a second try with BA after failing with Air UK and ScotAirways.

So....Edinburgh? How safe can you be? Can we really say that GLA loses quite that much whereas EDI is profitable?
I think we will see Midland Glasgow close as a handling concern with baby moving over to Menzies or Servisair alongwith Emirates. As to GLA-CPH and LBA, with MAN being axed, I think we might see the whole thing shut. GLA-LBA has seen traffic collapse and CPH is served nicely from EDI.

I never thought I'd see this day.

Mmmm - wonder who will take the lounge space at gate 25/26!


Nivsy

easyJet with Gates 24-26 would be a good bet, they're not afraid of air bridges and there's loads of room. Shift Baby across to the old international pier.

Another nail in the coffin for bmi at GLA?
 

So: first BD's GLA-MAN was gone, now BD's GLA-LHR is shut down...that just leaves GLA-LBA and GLA-CPH (same aircraft)...but for how much longer?

It seems one GLA-based regional operator has today applied for slots in LBA for a 3x daily GLA-LBA operation. If that does go ahead, and given the relative strength of the brand under which it would operate...can't help but feel that it could mean the end for BD-branded operations (not baby) in GLA in the not-too-distant future?

LBA-GLA was actually a good win for Loganair on the SD360 in 1990 when Capital went bust. The route was then "appropriated" shall we say, by BD when the bulk of LC was stripped and gifted to Manx in 1994!! It used to be operated on the Midland ATPs of all things then onto the SF340 and the ERJ-145. How ironic that Loganair have rebuilt to where they were back in those days.

Loganair would actually be a better bet for turning a profit on the route I think, assuming this pans out.

Yeah also give Loganair a few slots at LHR and an ageing DC9 and lets start a competitive service to LHR - might last a few years like BD Diamond Service.....:{


Nivsy

I do wonder how much of the fare on through Star Alliance carrier tickets from overseas, through Heathrow, to Glasgow actually ends up with BMI. If the way the proportion is divided up leads to BMI not getting much of the revenue, that's a real issue for them. BA can eat this in their overall figures and write it off to supporting their long haul revenue; BMI can't do this.

The costs of repatriating all the mishandled connecting bags through Heathrow heading for Glasgow, which is borne by the delivering carrier into the final destination despite many of the cockups happening on the inbound to Heathrow side, must also be a significant revenue eater.

I wonder what *A connecting carriers at LHR think of this? In an article last week WP-S appeared to suggest that BD had a *A duty to supply a minimum connecting service on LHR-GLA, but this appears to have been quickly forgotten (if it existed?). Does anyone know waht proportion of pax on BD GLA-LHR were connecting?

There must have been some *A carriers that received decent feed from GLA-LHR? AC perhaps?

Just got this from bmi in the last 10 minutes.

We are sorry to tell you that we have regrettably taken the decision to suspend our seven daily flights between London Heathrow and Glasgow from 27 March 2011. The recently announced increases by BAA in domestic passenger charges at London Heathrow by more than 50% effective 1 April 2011, will make the already loss making route between London Heathrow and Glasgow unsustainable for us.

Where is the know-all who claimed on here that this was not going to happen and berating those who said it would?

GLA LHR
 

Well the poster of Jan10th was correct & right, and as it was his 1st post he is off to a flying start, excuse the pun.

How things have changes what was probably bmi's flagship route is closing. I was reading in the Airline of Britain book recently that 'British Midland have aquired the DC9 to meet the needs of the busy LHR Teesside route', and on reflection how much different it all looks now, MME, LBA, GLA all closing.

with the cost of the fees as they put it being a big part of it, it is clear that domestic flying is so challenged by better rail connections etc. At this rate how long can LHR MAN last. EDI may be a bit better on yield though LCY has very high frequency to EDI and this may be an indicator that business traffic is not as good on LHR EDI as before and WX certainly offering much better value these days (and losing alot of money)!

It cannot be economic to operate on the MAN route if so many flights are by EMB? Yeah if loads are poor it's probably cheaper to fly EMB but all in all the route is in tatters if it cannot sustain an Airbus.

Also surprised that the summer routes from LHR that compliment the scandinavian routes ie Marrakesh and Casablanca are being launched. Alicante was the same and it didnt last, but perhaps bmi see connecting traffic opportunities.

EI-BUD

How likely is a launch of a 3 times daily service between GLA and BRU or FRA now, possibly operated by BD?

Going from 7 daily to nothing is quite radical and IMHO there must be sufficient connecting traffic from GLA to fill at least 3 feeding flights to one of the LH hubs on the continent.

It really doesn't matter much to pax if their route is GLA-LHR-MXP or GLA-BRU/FRA-MXP, just to name one exemple....

Looks like Lufty,without a buyer is slowly integrating the BMI route network into their own.

How long before the Heathrow base closes down and the operation moved to FRA ?

CMN and RAK probably link with LH's wider strategy to increase it's African operation. LON-CMN is also currently served only by Royal Air Maroc, so no heavy competition

Indeed, Morocco seems to be high on the priority list of LH, as SN has also decided to serve RAK and AGA as from next summer season for instance.

Does anyone notice a similarity between Lufthansa's turning BMI into their own feeder, and what KLM did a decade ago with Air UK ? In fact it must be good for LH in the general scheme of Star Alliance revenue attribution. GLA-LHR-SIN or GLA-LHR-JNB hands most of the revenue across to another carrier. GLA-FRA-SIN, or GLA-FRA-JNB keeps the whole lot within the Lufthansa group overall figures.

I can certainly see the similarities to that case and LH is right in going this path as there really is no use in BD being a predominantly shorthaul feeder for LHR, when the LH group can also divert most of the UK regional feed to other hubs of theirs, which is BTW why I'd question the remark from BD's CEO that what they are doing now is only plan B, as it seems nothing but obvious it should always have been plan A from a financial point of view!

I also see a difference to Air UK however: BD will remain a brand of its own with a medium haul network from LHR, operating point-to-point routes from London's main airport to places it can actually make good money from, contrary to using its highly valuable slots at LHR wastefully just to please STAR partners serving LHR by offering regional destinations in the UK...

I think LH is on the good path here, and unless BD's domestic routes are turning a profit, they should all be axed: the planes, slots and staff can better be used to operate from LHR (and other places) directly to key business centres in the EU and the periferal countries, while the connecting traffic from the regions can then all be routed through FRA, DUS, or BRU.

That'd be a good plan of action except for one thing - there is no service from GLA to FRA, or any other LH group hub for that matter! That's the issue here, not access to London as a destination, but one of the UK's biggest cities being practically cut off from the *A (with the exception of N America via CO/US)

In terms of LH, when you look at connectivity to LH group hubs from the UK, they only serve MAN, BHX, EDI and NCL (to DUS). Compared to KL to AMS in particular and AF to CDG, LH have pretty weak UK coverage. Even EK serve DXB from more UK regional airports than LH serve from FRA! As a result, if LH/BD want to pull connectin traffic into FRA they're going to have start a lot of new routes to the UK regions when the new runway at FRA opens.

I guess markets such as HUY, MME, LPL or NWI, mabye even CWL, only justify a single hub link demand-wise. And that is covered by KLM. HUY had AF for a short time, MME had limited hub-feed by BD into LHR, but realistically, these airports are one network carrier airports.

Choices for Lufthansa are therefore limited. They will have to focus on developing BRS, ABZ, LBA and GLA (and maybe BFS/BHD once it looses the LHR link by BD). Lufthansa has already tried GLA and BRS unsuccessfully, and those two were probably more promising than ABZ and LBA.

The interesting question is whether they should go for FRA, MUC or DUS as the hub they could feed from there. While DUS has a much more limited connectivity, it has a lot of P2P traffic from British regional airports (lots of flights from MAN, BHX, NCL). MUC is the most convenient airport airport for connections, but from the UK, it is quite a bit out of the way for connections to Northern and Western Europe and the US.

It's about 15 years since LH operated into GLA and even then it was once daily at most, so not great for connecting. The airline industry has changed massively since then so I don't think how that service fared really gives any indication as to how any new route to a LH hub would work out.

In terms of which hub to go for, I would've thought FRA is the one given the new capacity that will be available by the end of the year. MUC, whilst a very nice airport, is slightly out of the way and DUS does not have the connectivity - I believe as well that DUS is very restricted slot wise and maybe has some kind of tight curfew as well?

DUS is slot restricted, yes (as is FRA). Lufthansa has built up a nice network there over the past three or so years and most Star Carrier serve the airport. There are, however, very limited long-haul connections - only EWR, MIA, ORD, YYZ and PEK. There are, however, rumours about additional long-haul destinations to be added. It really depends what potential Lufthansa sees at places like GLA - apparently not enough people originating from GLA made long-haul connections at LHR to make the route viable. But generally speaking, DUS seems to be a very unlikely choice (despite the fact that it is the only Lufthansa hub with a NCL route). I guess they will try all they can to accomodate flights at FRA and only if they are unable to, look at alternatives.

However, as far as FRA is concerned, don't be fooled by runway #4. It does not mean a 25% increase in departures as traffic flow apparently restricts the number of additional movements.

OTOH, there are also ZRH and - to a lesser extent - VIE as potential hubs. For Lufthansa, Zurich is as much their hometurf these days as Munich or Düsseldorf.

Those particular flights are for a tour operator apparently. I was thinking more in general terms of the Lufthansa's group African focus
Lufthansa -Route Network
Apart from the weekly Brussels Airlines flight you mention, bmi will be the only Star connection to RAK, so there could be some connecting flows over LHR to RAK supplementing local traffic

RAK and CMN was GB Airways' most profitable route which also offered connections.

Morocco routes
 

From memory, I think LCCs began flying from the UK to Marrakech in late 2005
easyflyer - does your information on the profitability of Marrakech for GB Airways predate this period, or does it include a substantial period during which GB Airways had to compete with LCCs on the Marrakech route ?

I don't have specific knowledge of the market between the UK and Morocco, but can see the potential for BMI to serve the business capital of Casablanca when Royal Air Maroc currently has a monopoly to London. I note in particular that the BMI website is offering a lead-in economy fare on the CMN route at a somewhat higher price than the RAK route, despite CMN being about 15 mins less time in the air

However, with soon to be 5 carriers (weekly frequencies in brackets), namely BMI (x3), BA (x3), Easyjet (x7), Ryanair (x6) and Royal Air Maroc (x5) serving the London - Marrakech market, or 6 if you also count Thomson (x3), I'm wondering whether there really is sufficient demand on this leisure route for all the airlines to make money. What will BMI's marketing proposition / unique selling point be on this route to ensure it gets enough bums on seats at profitable fares ?

This isnt meant to upset or offend any members - I like bmi - have flown them several times between Manchester and Heathrow - Nice little airline

I understand people work there and are proud of their jobs :ok::ok::ok:

What were bmi (under their various different names) like in "their day"

What domestic routes did they serve...

What euro routes did they fly from Heathrow...

Were they as big as British Airways...

I`m aware of the Manchester A330 routes and the BMed acquistion and the recently acquistion off BD by Lufthansa

To me they seem like they dont know what they are doing from one day to the next...

I`ve copied this from another airline website... I think it sums up BD in a paragraph...

"Bergen will be daily, except days ending in a "y", via Newcastle on a Monday, Manchester on a Friday, and non-stop on all other days except if it's an afternoon departure. Operated by an A320 weekdays, and by Emb-145 on Saturdays. Full meal service on a Tuesday, refreshments only rest of the week, except on days operated by regional or on Sunday morning when there will be the once famous bacon roll. Tiny fares some days, mileage accrual only on full fares but not on aircraft with the old livery...... All subject to change at short notice.. "

Once again bmi is a great airline - I really hope Lufthansa turn you around and make you a great airline once again !!!! :ok::ok::ok:

Ib
 

About a year ago you would have been spot on, but there is much change afoot in the bmi group.

Only a year ago people had written them off, baby would be bust/closed/sold and so on, none of which came to pass.

GLA being culled is not a knee jerk in the mould of NT its about a restructuring of strategy and direction.

Bmi have no long haul however WPS is on record of stating that they will go back to the USA but from LHR and to the big apple not odd ball routes, but only when Market conditions permit currently slated for spring 2012 by which time bmi will be unrecognisable from the mis match product it became, by spring it will reek of quality with a quoted £30m having been spent on interior and exterior makeover, the new LH style seats look stunning.

This sort of spend was not possible under the previous management.

bmi problem with long haul from LHR is that west bound it's all Star traffic for which the get very little and have to pick up the costs every time the tosser's in baggage at LHR get it wrong! 7 of the last 10 flights have done thro LHR resulted in lost bags, they turned up eventually and were loaded inbound.

So until they have some west bound services interlining from the regions is of little value.

BTW has Random Flyer passed his hat yet?

Never say Never!

I wonder if LH will spread some of their onboard offerings to BMI - and I mean every BMI and not random inclusions and exceptions that we've seen over the years.

I know it's not much, but a free beer, snack (small sandwich and a biscuit you get on LH) and a coffee makes people think they're getting better value. People seemed to like the whole Diamond service. Bit of a dated name, but why not bring it back? They've went back to "British Midland (international)" - so why not bring it back.

I've always seen them as a premium airline and flew them a lot MME-LHR-Onwards. But in the end, they were just an LCC who flew to LHR and nothing more.

Davidjohnson, AFAIK LHR-RAK and LHR-CMN-RAK were GB's most profitable route right up to the end, probably because they served LHR. I'm sure the LCC's diluted the market but it was all relative in terms of it being GB's most profitable in that most of it's other routes were all in competition with LCC's anyway.

I agree something for free would be good in an ideal world- but some of the buy-on-board prices are actually quite affordable when compared with competitors on the routes BOB is offered.

coffee to go...
 

the business lounges will soon have " coffee to go cups " .... so any one using the lounges can make a coffee, tea or something else and take it onboard with them. will be good for anyone travelling economy. no need to buy!!!

If they can afford free coffee, then for the love of God have the cabin crew give it out when the customer is sat down and rested, not running to the gate with boiling water because you were last in the queue (!)