Apologies if this has been discussed before, but surely bmi are not giving away slots to other Star Alliance carriers? Would it not make more sense to lease the slots to them? You don't just give away your most valuable asset?

Also, does the above, along with todays announcement, mean that bmi are no longer the second biggest carrier at Heathrow?

Selling some slots and leasing others to Star Alliance members was what I was told.

They will be selling them rather than giving them away in a last ditch attempt to prop up their haemmoraging balance sheet I would speculate.

What a mess!

CAI down from A330 to A321 from April

Bmi cuts Heathrow routes - Business Traveller

The MAN and DUB cuts are only rumours, I would be stunned to see DUB-LHR go, they are the only airline operating business class on this route and it does very well.

cargo to lose 50% of it's staff

How many mainline managers to go ?

All,

Sorry to hear about the news.
Pure LIFO will definitely not be used by the company!

Baby is expecting it's next reduncancy criteria matrix to be issued very shortly ... the precedent for this was set by the company last year.

Good luck

about 45 mainline managers although it all blurred into 1 by the end of it!:{

so i may be wrong

The announced cuts from January (BRU, KBP and TLV) free 9 daily slot pairs in LHR (although one of these is 2210-2300 - arguably not a prime slot).

The new LHR-GVA will take 6 slot pairs (but only two of the new departures - 0700 and 1640 - and one of the arrivals - 1600 - are anywhere near (within 30 min of) the newly freed-up slots). So there must be a lot of shuffling of other route schedules going on. And at least two slot pairs must be going somewhere else (any additional Star Alliance flying announced from LHR from January, other than GVA?).

LHR-BRU is being given to Brussels Airlines who are dropping LGW-BRU from January. Wouldn't expect that to free up slots at LHR.

This is very bad news for those personel losing their jobs at their respective posts and I wish them the best of luck in the future.

However, it does look good for BA who will sure see a rise in their load factors on LHR-AMS, BRU and the other competing routes, as will carriers also operating the routes.

Doesn't the CAI route operate with a codeshare on the Egyptair flights? They operate heavies anyway and this will probably make the route stronger, unless they want a decent service and opt with the BA option.

Yes, Egyptair and bmi codeshare on each others LHR-CAI flights

Where did you get the information that Brussels Airlines are dropping their Gatwick route?

Legacy
 

Bishop's unholy legacy. I would wish that he feels some responsibility and shame, but I imagine the rotten blighter doesn't care a hoot. He's a rich person with a poor sense of morality. Not so unusual.


My sympathy to folks about to go. I was there with bmi, and it was a miserable time. None of us who were given the push ever returned.

As SLF that used bmi regularly from Teesside to LHR, just want to send my commiserations to staff, especially any that were Teesside based, don't know if any still remain.

bmi used to be an excellent airline when I first started travelling regularly in 2000, I am very sorry to see the state it is in now.

Sad news for all at BMI, I feel for those about to lose their jobs.

Hopefully those left at the top will now realise that it is time for some proper direction. BMI should be an airline primarily for business and the service provided should reflect that.

I am a fairly regular traveller from BHD and feel that the service has become very inconsistent recently. Lounges has been reduced in size and there are no real benefits to encourage customers to fork out that little bit extra for "business" class.

Aircraft seating layouts need consistency across the fleet, in order to provide consistent service. 1 flight the business cabin has mid haul seats and the next time it is basically an economy seat with a cabin divide. I would imagine those in business feel hard done by in these cases.

The benefits of the Y fare far too great. Free changes and lounge access, why lounge access? Better business facilities in the lounges and fast track security for business fares would be a great start. Restricting Y to only free changes would encourage more business class travel, at least until Silver Diamond status is gained.

Must say all the Belfast staff are always extremely helpful but are clearly restricted by decisions taken out of their hands.

Heres hoping BMI bounce back strongly. A few well placed changes could make a massive impact.

Maybe I am speaking out of turn, but to me as a regular customers, these are the main things I reckon could be changed to the benefit of the company.

Out of interest, a bit of research has returned the following. A320's DR & DS, A319's CA,CB,CC,CJ & CK are the leased frames. Presumably they are the likely candidates to go?

AC

Apparently, no A319's are going.................2 x A330, 2 x A321 and 3 x A320 are to be returned at the end of their leases.

Aegean Airlines?

Aegean should be in LHR already but there are 19 unused slots (14 TLV + 5 KBP > 3 daily) + another 4 daily from April (LHR-AMS).

LHR Air Transport Movements By Operator
 

AIR TRANSPORT MOVEMENTS BY OPERATOR

ATMs per week - Typical week (pre cancellations)
WINTER 2008/09 % SHARE WINTER 2009/10 % SHARE % CHANGE

British Airways 3889 41.9% 3967 42.7% 2.0%
bmi 1072 11.6% 913 9.8% -14.8%
Lufthansa 430 4.6% 556 6.0% 29.3%
Virgin Atlantic 317 3.4% 284 3.1% -10.4%
Aer Lingus 274 3.0% 316 3.4% 15.3%
SAS 274 3.0% 274 3.0% 0.0%
Iberia 196 2.1% 154 1.7% -21.4%
American Airlines 212 2.3% 212 2.3% 0.0%
KLM 186 2.0% 186 2.0% 0.0%
Alitalia 132 1.4% 132 1.4% 0.0%
Air France 154 1.7% 154 1.7% 0.0%
Air Canada 126 1.4% 126 1.4% 0.0%
United Airlines 126 1.4% 126 1.4% 0.0%
Others 1,892 20.4% 1,880 20.3% -0.6%

Total 9280 100.0% 9280 100.0% 0.0%

It is very sad news and i wish all of BMI staff the best of luck - its shocking its come to this.

On routes/slots....i did wonder what would happen in respect of BRU (esp as Lufhty effectively owns Brussels Airlines) and AMS in the longer term. Ive thought there was over capacity on AMS (BD/BA/KL), like there was in the past on CDG (BD/AF/BA) but am a little surprised by the middle east routes going.

Also i need to be reminded has BMI handed over the slots BA bought from BMI when they purchased BMED (I assume this has been done now).

I wonder if like some are stating its time to rethink the semi low cost model (paid for food /"one class" approach) that is offered on some routes (although there cant be too many left now where this is applicable!) and move back to a more traditional Econ/Business "Diamond Service" offering. It seems best to go with one offering to the customer and stick with it throughout rather than offer conflicting services

I know Germany and the UK are two very different countries but Lufthy has operated a hub and spoke multi fleet two class airline successfully for many years and has experience of turning around Swiss and will be embarking on the same with Austrian...so if anyone can the they should be able to.....even if there is unfortunately some pain to go through first like todays announcement.

My thoughts are with the 600 that will be out of a job soon, but at the same time I can see this from the business point of view - it winds me up when Unions moan, what would they rather have? 600 lost jobs & the company survives, or the company goes bust and you've got 10000 or so lost jobs?

The Geneva news is no surprise. Swiss have been wanting more slots at Heathrow for years and more than just for Geneva. I would not be surprised to see Basle too.

Very sad news. All the best to those who end up on the dole.

It wouldn't be quite as bad of you knew all the layabouts and incompetents were going. Sadly, in bmi, lots of good people at the grass roots seem to attract an unfair share of the misery. Post 9/11 kneejerk redundancies was a classic example - invaluable talent dumped and useless, lazy drips retained and even promoted. The knock on effect on those struggling to patch all the gaps is horrendous. The added cost of the shambles must have exceeded the savings from redundancies.

Just hope superior Lufthansa management will be the key to a recovery. They really do need to learn what a nasty culture there is in bmi, no doubt spread from the attitude of those at the top. It's all down to a minority of nasty people who often lick their way into management, rather than get there through ability. If they eradicate the nasty element (and now is a good opportunity to dump all the b******s) they'll be a long way towards improving morale and sorting it out.

DF is already in action playing his games of deceit. Isn't it curious how twisted people like him gravitate towards positions where they have so much power over peoples destinys.

'Must say all the Belfast staff are always extremely helpful but are clearly restricted by decisions taken out of their hands.'

I couldn't agree more with EGAC is better, because most of us at Belfast,ground staff and cabin crew, do go out of our way to provide a good customer service, which was drilled into us when we first joined British Midland. We are all very relieved that at this stage there will be no redunancies at Belfast.

I would also agree that the company needs to improve its Business Class service, with the fixed business configuration on DO , being very popular amongst the regular travellers. Meal services need to be changed with the hot bits and sandwiches not being served in those cheap looking boxes. I hope the airline will bring back the memories of afternoon tea with scones and devon clotted cream with strawberry jam on the BD089 are long gone!!

The latest 'Better for Business' campaign, looks excellent on paper and I am sure it will be very appealling when fully implemented accross the bases.

Good luck to all my fellow employees who are affected by Wednesday's announcment.

DF always reminded me of Peter Mandelson...and that really is NOT a compliment.
If HR/Personnel behave as they did during the last round of baby redundancies, then I fear you are all in for a horrible ride.
Compassion is a word not often used in the deep recesses of HR.
Good luck everyone......and let's hope that the good ones stay.

Oh, those halcyon days !GLA-EMA on the DC9, and running on once all pax were off to see if there were any teas left over !

Just got my letter this morning - 79 Capt , 50 FO , a number of engineering staff, 105 c/c, 79 flight sup's, 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cspm's / c/c managers . oh and no senior managers jobs are on the line - funny that.
there will be more "managers and office rats than actual operational "can touch the plane" staff. WTF

Heard there weren't going to be pilots/cabin crew based in GLA/EDI or BHD any more, anyone confirm or deny ?

Deny Deny Deny

me too sas319. :{

A sad day for all involved.

The only positive for crews that remain is at last someone is taking the bull by the horns and doing something, everyone knew it could not go on and had action been taken earlier then perhaps it wouldn't have been so painful now?

This is a business that is burning through £3m a week, LH have pledged £95m in support, i have no doubt that slot swap with other LH companies will be part of this Swiss/SN GVA/BRU and others will follow.

The whole management team will be under review and many will go in the coming months as and when back office functions move/merge. The total job losses across the group (inc baby) will be North of a 1000 before this over.

Reading the various posts it seems that the (high) cost of some aircraft/engine leases are a factor in many of the cuts at both mainline and baby, whether this is because they have had to do back to back deals because of poor credit risk or some other reason i don't know, but unless your paying no more than the going rate you have no chance of making money, i would guess that deals from here on will be more favourable.

Good luck to all

As acbus1 so succinctly paraphrased the situation - a nasty culture spread from the top down.

Couple that with incompetent management specialising in window dressing, smoke and mirrors and constant change to wrong foot the workforce and you have a recipe for disaster made in heaven!

How many remember the fiasco over the IAE engines and entry door at 2L on the Airbus to allow boarding "left and right" ? Pity the engine nacelle is too long for an airbridge or stairs at 2L.

How any remember the 3 class 330s, F,C and Y being ordered when everyone else was downsizing premium? Shame they had to go straight back after acceptance for a cabin re-config.

Asked by the MD of MAG at a meeting about where I got my market research figures from: " So long as bmi are building up a route, just to pull of it, I have my free market research consultants".

Too many fingers in too many pies and not good enough at anything to create a niche or dominant product: short haul,medium haul, long haul, charter, low cost, regional and none of it due to the workers.

Poor little lambs who lost their way.

Form ITbusiness edge.com:

This company has been abominably managed for a good number of years now.

The key issue is not moving with the times, not understanding the changing market fast enough and no focus or strategy.

I remember the re-brand video from 1996 where the top brass were patting themselves on the back for bringing in business classs (complete with full meal service and £350 rtn tickets) for 35 minute domestic flights. This at exactly the time Easyjet, Go and Ryanair were busy launching low cost routes. Talk about misreading the market!!

Since then they have dabbled in literally hundreds of different markets, but not doing anything well.

And what are they? Full service? Low Cost? Regional? Charter? Scheduled? Short Haul? Long Haul? Or just a melee of everything?

There is no secret in the fact that the likes of easyjet are so successful because of their focussed model using a single type of aircraft on specific markets which fit that aircraft type.

Think if all the routes easyJet, Flybe and Ryanair operate within and out of the UK and there is your oportunity missed! Instead BMI just had to be yet another another carrier on the Trans-Atlantic market - for what purpose god alone knows.

It is tragic!

A lot of the comments have been worth hearing. About the days of the full DC9s on the domestics, the Diamond service and the grateful passengers. All true, however that business model involves charging fares that no one is going to pay these days. The market to London is much bigger, there is major loco competition from easyJet and Ryanair who offer "much cheapness" and a still powerful BA who offer "quality" and of course connectivity and backup when things go wrong.

bmi has failed to differentiate itself from any of these. They built their reputation on supplying service that was way better than a nationalised BA. The last few years of routes chopping and changing, buying a whole route structure from BMED, closing the accidentally set up MAN long haul operation and buy on board have driven me away from bmi.

They CANNOT go back to a full service British Midland, they cannot go on as they are, they cannot cut back any more without driving even more people away. The return of Swiss to the old Swissair routes and the return of SN Brussels to the old Sabena routes tell us where Lufthansa sees STAR at Heathrow going. I think the real tragedy is that the world moved on and left bmi behind.

Yes with their 1980's out of touch uniform and tatty hats!!!!!! Remind me whens the new uniform coming?????:ugh::ugh::ugh:

The mistake they made was investing heavily in a business product which the market was moving away from and downgrading the excellent Diamond Service as well as having their finger in too many pies and doing nothing particularly successfully.

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing but I think they should have done the following in the late 1990s:

LHR Product
1) Rationalise LHR fleet into single type - A319 ideal
2) Stay one class
3) Transform into a Jetblue style product at LHR keeping Diamond service but with the frills paid for by budget ticket holders
4) Provide a "business" upgrade allowing an improved ground product (check in and lounge access and FFP) and free food on board (maybe £5 allowance)
5) Not join Star but allow interlining with all carriers
6) Operate to niche destinations that BA do not serve, as well as trunk routes
7) Negotiate take-over of some domestic routes from BA allowing them to focus more on L/Haul
8) Forget Long Haul aspirations

Regional Product
1) BMI Baby brand split into Business and Leisure Routes
2) Dash 8-400 for Business routes
3) A319 for leisure routes
4) 3-4 bases with 6-8 aircraft per base
5) Business product like LHR; Leisure more like current BMI Baby
6) If routes don't fit the profile of the two aircraft types don't operate them!

They could have stolen a 3-4 year march on Flybe in many markets and had a very neat business with 50-60 aircraft (of which 12 or so DH4) that could have been significantly rationalised with the simple business model.

Was there anything in the letter about the FS pension scheme? Reports in the media of it closing to existing members, but as yet us members no longer employed by bmi have heard nothing (I don't for one minute think we are a priority, btw).