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-   -   EAST MIDLANDS - 6 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/287822-east-midlands-6-a.html)

Balair 17th Apr 2009 13:39

Runway extension
You all seem to be focusing the debate on longhaul pax flights, don't forget the majority of the airport's current longhaul flights are operated by UPS, DHL and Lufthansa, to be joined in the near future by AeroLogic.

I would imagine it is their ability to meet the future requirements identified by these companies which is the main reason why the airport's management are pressing for the planning application to be determined.

roverman - if there wasn't a "business case" to extend the runway do you really think MAG would waste their time and money on the application...?

INKJET 17th Apr 2009 14:20

I think its the business market that missing, without which longhaul wont work. Man & Bhx both have it, but there is next to nothing from EMA other than Eastern (ABZ) & bmi (BRU) no lounges to speak of either. Same with ski flights very little from EMA other than LoCo's and a few Austrian Arrows which is nothing when compared with BHX or MAN?

PIA/Emirates would work just as well and its got to be a lot easier putting a 777 down on a long runway into wind rather than a shortish one thats across it so there must be something else missing, DHL hub is without doubt a big plus, unless you live at Kings Newton............

OliWW 17th Apr 2009 14:49

Servisair operate a Lounge at EMA

There are quite a few ski routes, yes there arent as many as MAN and BHX but this is a lot smaller airport, it doesnt mean to say it doesnt have potential!

This winter we had
1x Weekly Innsbruck (Austrian)
1x Weekly Salzburg (Thomson)
1x Weekly Sofia (BH Air)
1x Weekly Chambery (Thomson)
1x Weekly Grenoble (Ryanair)
4x Weekly Milan (Ryanair)
15x Weekly Geneva (easyJet + bmibaby)

This winter we also have bmibaby expanding to Grenoble 2x Weekly and there is the possibility of them operating another ski destination as well. Yes there isnt a lot of flights, but the destinations are available

Crusher1 17th Apr 2009 15:25

I use long haul out of EMA all the time - only thing is it's all freight!!

I'm not sure there is a demand for dedicated long haul, although I would say an Emirates style operation (using a transit hub) may well be sustainable.

On a trip last month (BHX/Perth) the Emirates driver commented about how many people thay pick up from my area (Coalville), so I get the impression that there's a lot of us East Midlander's travelling to BHX to catch a long haul flight. So it's probably a feasable proposition, although I don't actually see it happening, certainly not in the near future.

ATNotts 17th Apr 2009 16:55

EMA - too close to BHX

The oft heard arguement as to why BHX has been less successful than other European cities of similar size / importance in attracting longhaul business is that it is "too close to London".

I think the same could be said for the East Midlands cities (Nottingham, Derby and Leicester) with regard to their proximity to Birmingham, which, whether we like it or not is the "capital" of the Midlands, and has a much greater population, and with venues like the NEC, NIA and ICC attracts more inbound business travel than the three aforementioned east midlands cities is ever likely to.

Why therefore, should Emirates, Continental, or PIA dilute their midlands originating traffic by setting up a "rival" operation through EMA. I think this is also why, for example Lufthansa and KLM have failed to offer service from EMA.

It's not all gloom and doom though - how many UK airports can boast the cargo facilities, and spread of based operators that EMA does? Only last night EMA hosted three Antonov 124s and a Kallita 747 - like to see them accomodated at BHX!!! (fat chance).

EMA has a niche - loco passenger, and the UK's principal hub for all the world's chief integrators - save one, Fedex. Pretty good and something to be proud of if you ask me. (Don't ask the residents of Kegworth, Breedon or Wilson however - they'll probably disagree!!!).

Crusher1 17th Apr 2009 19:57


I agree, why would Emirates or anyone else make their own competition. however it's not beyond the realms of possibility that someone else could operate long haul from EMA, although not likely.

KLM did run a F50 to AMS and I used it loads for connections elsewhere and it always seemed to do well pax wise, likewise the BM service to LHR, unfortunatly due to slot restrictions (I assume) we have lost both.

Certainly a dedicated service to, say. JFK, would not work, but maybe an airline like Qatar with onward connections would be viable.

Anyway we can all have pipe dreams.......mine is a direct service to Vilhelmina in Sweden, takes me ages to get there currently!!!!!!!!!!

OliWW 17th Apr 2009 20:27

Good airline for connections would be Jet Airways, no flights into BHX or MAN, only LHR, for example

Mumbai - East Midlands - New York - East Midlands - Mumbai = A332

or even Delta, they would be good for International flights to NYC from EMA on a B752

bmibaby.com 17th Apr 2009 20:34

Never going to happen sadly, maybe from BHX. Much as I love my place of work (though for friendliness and ease of use, not a patch on how it was 10 years ago, but then it was a different type of flying), it is an airport best served for worldwide cargo flying, as well as low-cost and charter flying. The airport could sustain a service to a major European hub by the likes of AF, KL or LH, but if an airline like Qatar were to serve the Midlands, they'd fly to Birmingham, the UK's 2nd largest city and an airport with an infraestructure for international, full-service airlines.

egnxema 20th Apr 2009 11:56

HI Oli

I see your point - but Jet already have that operation set up in BRU - they do all their India - Europe - North America routes hubbing through BRU at the same time, and are interlined with BD for UK regional flights including EMA.

I totally agree with other posters that EMA does need an AMS flight with a KL code or a CDG with an AF code to provide fully connecting worldwide services.

Will be interesting to see if the arrival of Donington Park on the International GP calendar, and the year-round conference facilities that the Park have plans to build will affect EMA's success at attracting AFKL.

NJTCF 21st Apr 2009 23:57

EMA Runway Extension.
On the local news tonight there was a piece on the runway extension and NW Leics Council are dropping there oposition to the runway extension:D. Looks as thou the airport have got all the Right boxes ticked. So Hopefully we should have a yes by the summer. the only stumbling block might be Mr David Taylor MP Who was also on the programme saying if they did get the go ahead he would call for a public enquiry Does he Not Relise how many people work at the airport!!!.

Following on from all the comments above i was lead to believe it was a certain cargo carrier who wanted the extra length so they could operate from EMA Fully Loaded/Fueled to there west coast of america Hub.

As Balair Put the Runway extension is for the cargo side of the airport. Cannot See Any Airline Operating Pax Flights Longhaul for the time being, Other than the usual charters that are already there.

But As Ive Said before i would sooner have the concrete laid and done and yes maybe it might Not be used for a couple of years but its there ready and waiting for anyone who does Need to use it.

Yak97 22nd Apr 2009 05:46

Ukia B767
Just out of idle interest - what happened to the ex UKIA B767?

classic-hunter- 22nd Apr 2009 06:58

Ukia B767
Just out of idle interest - what happened to the ex UKIA B767?

Still sat there at the moment just in front of the staff car park. Must of been there a good 8 months now, prob more!

Must be a "interesting" smell on there now!! ;)

boredcounter 22nd Apr 2009 07:01

Still parked up in the same place at EMA, markings painted out is all that appears to have changed.


yeo valley 22nd Apr 2009 07:54

ukia 767 there was talk about it off to filton a few months back.

Balair 22nd Apr 2009 08:01

Runway Extension

Just to clarify the current situation; it is Leicestershire County Council which is saying there is no reason why the extension should not be approved, the final decision to be taken "in the summer" rests with NWLDC.
Although it is generally accepted the runway extension would have very little impact on the overall noise levels generated by the airport, NWLDC (and David Taylor) have continually tried to use this application to get the government to "designate" the airport and impose restrictions on night flying.
As far as the actual construction of the extension, should it be approved; indications are that it would be at least a couple of years before the work commenced.

ATNotts 22nd Apr 2009 17:40

Freight direct to the US West Coast
I am struggling to work out which of the integrators would want to operate direct to the West Coast. The business model generally calls for transatlantic business to hub on the east coast, and transpacific on the west coast. That is how UPS and DHL seem to work it. I might be wrong but I don't think that even TNT go further than New York from Liege, Fedex goe to Memphis, again in the eastern half of the US, and UPS' main hub is Louisville, Kentucky.

I think if I were MAG, I wouldn't waste the money on the runway, as for most carriers requirements it is long enough already - some upgarde of the facilities to attract full service passenger carriers to Europe might pay more dividends in the medium term.

On a separate note, I heard some eejit on BBC East Midlands News suggesting that the extra 170m will enable flights to New York to "take off". I can't imagine where they think all these Lufthansa MD11s and UPS 767s go to if it's not the USA!

NJTCF 22nd Apr 2009 23:04

Runway Extension + UKIA.
Thanks Balair + ATNotts

ATNotts. I Understood it was UPS Was the carrier that wanted the extra runway so they could operate into there Hub outside Los Angeles. This was wanted along time ago, So things might have changed with there plans Now.

ATNotts You Say MAG should not waste there money on EMA, EMA is the only airport in the group that has been making a profit. Wether this will continue in the current climate i do not know. Surely if MAG Did sell EMA if they Succeed in there Bid for LGW This Could be a good selling point. MAG Will have to raise funds and i only think in there group that EMA is the only airport they could sell. If they are Not able to raise funds on the markets. They have already failed in selling Humberside last year. And they are Not Going to Sell MAN.

UKIA Going No where No one wants to pay the parking charges!!!:(

Simtech 23rd Apr 2009 09:40

Do the runway extension plans include upgrading the 09 approach lighting to CAT III standard?

HeliCraig 23rd Apr 2009 09:45

At what point can EMA/MAG impound the UKIA for non payment of fees? The a/c must still have a good value, even with the engineering works needed to get it flying again!

I remember seeing a light twin with a notice on the window about it being impounded for non payment and becoming the airfields property in X days. That was an Nottingham though.

OliWW 23rd Apr 2009 10:41

I cant imagen the aircraft its self having a good value for a B767.200, it was built in 1981... 28 years old

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