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-   -   EAST MIDLANDS - 6 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/287822-east-midlands-6-a.html)

Abusing_the_sky 5th Jul 2008 03:39

Beer and Tabs...

You Sir have surely never experienced this kind of treatment. Fair enough you have the right to say your own opinion however you seem like you never had the pleasure of a "going from landside to airside" trip.
So you must be airside staff or just work near an airport or maybe have a passion for airplanes hence why you joined Pprune...
My opinion is shared by many. I refuse to be treated like a criminal when i have been checked 5 yrs back, no gaps whatsoever, to get my APT ID. References, criminal checks, what exactly i've been doing in those 2 days between jobs and what i had for b'fast, how many times a week i've been scratching my A$$ and what caused the rash (sense the sarcasm "love"), and after all this i am treated like a criminal, searched every day, like i was to harm anyone with my hairspary or hijack the plane with a hairgrip...
You Sir do not know what a day starting with stress caused by USELESS and totally POINTLESS (yes, I actually said that) security staff can actually do to you and the impact it has on your performance throughout the day.
As for flipping burgers... If i was to be as rude and as uneducated as you i would be f'ing and blinding like there is no tomorrow... But as i obviously have more class and a bigger IQ than you, all i would say is that I have the burgers flipped for me, not the other way around...
Yes, good on the security staff ( i have to mention again that i DID say that the majority staff at our APT are very nice and have common sense), for having a job and they're not claiming benefits... However i'm pretty sure i'm still paying for their housing on one of UK's "finest council estates".
Finally my dear SIR, unless you have 4, 2 stripes or a wing (CC)- hence i respect my dear colleagues-, if you want to say something please raise your hand and place it over your mouth.

Rgds,
ATS

qwertyplop 5th Jul 2008 08:08

While I agree with most of what she says, I wish she would learn how to use some punctuation.

:p

This is an issue that is relevent for all staff airside, to get to work in a pissed off state of mind before you even deal with the days issues is wrong.

I watched as a customs officer was pulled to bits the other day by a security operative. He was made to remove radios, boots, webbing belt with cuffs on. He looked increasingly annoyed and will be cleared to a far higher level of security clearance, with ongoing monitoring, than any crew but he was still being messed around and continually made to walk backwards and forwards through the arch.

I'd have some faith in the system if 'skurity' knew what the threat was and where it was coming from, ask them, they do not. The issue of delivering stuff airside for sale or consumption, for example, is one issue that amuses me immensely.

How do 'skurity' secure the supply chain on the aforementioned before it goes airside or before it even arrives in the airport? It's when one looks at it like this that it all begins to fall apart.

Abusing_the_sky makes some goods points but human nature being what it is it makes it sound like 'skurity' relish her arrival at the airport just to wind her up.

And that is wrong.

EGAC_Ramper 5th Jul 2008 10:25

EMA security
 
Ah yes I to have had the misfortune of some eager security personel at EMA. However I would just like to see a more common sense approach to it all. After all I'd like to take a yoghurt/drink of my choice onboard but alas can't due to the 100ml restriction.

DESPITE this at arms length in the flightdeck is a crash axe!!:ugh::mad:Come on what is happening with common sense!?!?


With regards FR has Derry been lost? :D



Regards

INKJET 5th Jul 2008 11:34

Security staff at EMA
 
Firstly may i say that the screening staff at EMA are amongst the best at currently any of the many uk airports that i have used as crew.

They understand that the risk is not with customs officers or flight crew (although it is interesting to note that police officers seem to be above all this and are NOT searched in any way, nor should they be) yes there is the odd goon amongst the screening staff at most airports, but that apllies to flight crews to!

The problem is that there is only one channel for screening staff going airside and that does not and can not discriminate between diffrent groups of airside pass holders, we all know that many of the airside pass holders are either temp workers (building yet more shops!!) or of non UK origin, and that screening through Scottish disclosure or any other system will not and can hope to fill in the employment history.

So they have only two choice, one is to create a two tier system with a seprate gate for certain groups (customs, ATC, flight crew, engineers, despatchers) the list goes on and another for shop workers. cleaners and so on, you see the problem, many of the shop workers have been there years too.

You could go down the route of UK and non Uk nationals, but that wouldn't comply with European law and would more importantly not be effect from a security point of view, BTW don't think that the planned introduction of ID card to be used first on airport workers is anything but a back door atempt by this discredited Goverment to introduce ID cards by the back door and will not ease or smooth your path through airport security , it won't

To improve things i would start by increasing the pay rates for airport security workers get to at least what fire service personel earn, but put them on a temp; rolling 6 month contract this would ensure that the airport can get rid of bad apples and have no problem replacing them, the staff would understand that they are on a good number and having a job that they would be lucky to earn as much else where and that being polite is part of being professional

One last thing all crew could try and smile:)

Chilli Monster 5th Jul 2008 11:58


Originally Posted by Code 100
The helicopter traffic alone was something else. I don't know where the fixed wing stuff went, but I guess it will be good to have an international airport next door from 2010.

Good - sheer insanity more like.

The heli movements at their current size and the airport cannot co-exist, it's dangerous and an incident waiting to happen. As for the road infrastructure. Well, if Donny Park and Bernie E are willing to put me up in the Thistle over the period then great - but I am NOT setting off 4 hours early for a shift when the journey normally takes 20 minutes.

I like motor sport, but this is a proposal which will not work.

Abusing_the_sky 5th Jul 2008 12:35

I guess when you type in a hurry to let it all out, punctuation is the last thing you think of. Solly :p

I wish one day, a pilot whose yoghurt's been confiscated for "security and safety" reasons, goes to the a/c, grabs the crash axe, comes back and slams it on the belt saying "I have this behind my seat in the f/d, does this look dangerous to you or does my yoghurt?":ugh:

Rgds,
ATS


I'm not enirely sure but i think this actually happened some time ago in STN


The Real Slim Shady 5th Jul 2008 12:48

Gridlock
 
As the Chilli man says the F1 GP at Donny will be disastrous for pax and staff trying to get to in during the event. The area will need some serious infrastructure improvements which will of course mean even more dsiruption ue to construction.

It was notable that the EM Development Agency had not been consulted on the transfer or potential transfer of the GP.


The prospect of 1750 helo movements just doesn't bear thinking about: we go across the top of the track at about 500ft on final to 09 and at around 800ft on departure 27.

The departure is dodgiest as we have a 17 degree pitch attitude and can't see below!!

INKJET 5th Jul 2008 13:49

Re the Grand Prix
 
With out significant improvement to the local road net work then yes it will be chaos, but there is time to sort that out if they get cracking.

The restricted access junction on the M42 j14? needs to be a dedicated entry exit for all GP traffic on the peak traffic days and would need entry/exit from both North & South, Airport traffic should have a dedicated lane with a new entry/exit on to the M42 between J14 and the exit to the service A453.

All airport employee's should have a staff only bus that is given priority with remote parking near Bredon on the Hill for all staff living Ashby/Swad side and the same again East of the MI towards Radcliffe likewise between Donington and the A50 these need only be tempory for the duration of the race days.

A tempory bailey bridge can be built near the 09 threshold crossing the West side service road allowing access for Helio pax direct to the race circuit and also allowing a direct staff route from the North so no need for Helio traffic to land at the Park itself, like wise i am sure Sir Michael would be more than happy (for a fee) to allow copter traffic to park on bmi estate's.

There will be a massive demand on slots for fixed wing from light aircraft/biz jet/charter/schedule and of course all the transport frieght aircraft that the GP circus brings with it.

Easy/baby& Ryan should do very well out of this, given that it will already be a very busy weekend anyway, but there are bound to be more movement requests than there is space for so i expect to see the Loco running aircraft all night to create space in their schedules to do the normal meds plus all the other charter traffic.

A ring side view from the tower will be fantastic and we should put a live video feed in.

Beer_n_Tabs 5th Jul 2008 15:49


Beer and Tabs...

You Sir have surely never experienced this kind of treatment. Fair enough you have the right to say your own opinion however you seem like you never had the pleasure of a "going from landside to airside" trip.
So you must be airside staff or just work near an airport or maybe have a passion for airplanes hence why you joined Pprune...
My opinion is shared by many. I refuse to be treated like a criminal when i have been checked 5 yrs back, no gaps whatsoever, to get my APT ID. References, criminal checks, what exactly i've been doing in those 2 days between jobs and what i had for b'fast, how many times a week i've been scratching my A$$ and what caused the rash (sense the sarcasm "love"), and after all this i am treated like a criminal, searched every day, like i was to harm anyone with my hairspary or hijack the plane with a hairgrip...
You Sir do not know what a day starting with stress caused by USELESS and totally POINTLESS (yes, I actually said that) security staff can actually do to you and the impact it has on your performance throughout the day.
As for flipping burgers... If i was to be as rude and as uneducated as you i would be f'ing and blinding like there is no tomorrow... But as i obviously have more class and a bigger IQ than you, all i would say is that I have the burgers flipped for me, not the other way around...
Yes, good on the security staff ( i have to mention again that i DID say that the majority staff at our APT are very nice and have common sense), for having a job and they're not claiming benefits... However i'm pretty sure i'm still paying for their housing on one of UK's "finest council estates".
Finally my dear SIR, unless you have 4, 2 stripes or a wing (CC)- hence i respect my dear colleagues-, if you want to say something please raise your hand and place it over your mouth.

Rgds,
ATS

Let me assure you LADY that in my line of work at EMA I have had the I have had the 'pleasure' many times on a daily basis over the last 20 years of going landside to airside, and my dear LADY that involves being airside staff, as well as 'crew' for want of a better phrase while emabarking on my little jaunts. So although I do not have stripes as part of my sorry little career I have had to go through the process many many times.

Fact of the matter is, that is the environment we work in, and you don't like it...... get your coat. Try writing to your MP, the DfT, your therapist instead of griping about people who are doing their job.

You strike me as one of those little madams who trots up with her nose in the air wondering who these people are to 'inconvenience' YOU, and I am begining to understand why they might single you out on a regular basis.

You may well have a very large IQ LADY, but it certainly didn't come across in the drivel you posted previously. I'm quite pleased to say my education and IQ are of a reasonable level also (what a lucky boy I am)

AND FINALLY LADY......that little line about you paying for their "finest council estates" is nothing short of pathetic. Maybe you were one of the lucky ones born with a silver spoon up your chuff, others have to work at life.

Oh and 1 more minor point, your A$$ rash is of no concern of mine, I'm sure there is a cream out there that will cure your ailment nicely. Size of tube of said cream relevent to size of aforementioned A$$.

qwertyplop...


This IS the place to report and vent one's spleen.

As I am to my friend :ok:
I am actually a very laid back fellow (allegedly), but some people annoy me with their BIG I AM attitude to others.

Kind regard
Your Freind
Beer_n_Tabs

qwertyplop 5th Jul 2008 18:36

Ooo err. :\

Don't sit on the fence Beer_n_tabs, tell us what you really think? :}

This reliance on the Disclosure Scotland paperwork is rather pointless to is it not? It's only valid on the day it was issued.

It'll get you a pass, it's up to you to keep it.

captain_flynn 5th Jul 2008 21:35

I've got to say i've been to EMA when theres been racing on at Donnington and the road is a nightmare. I can't even begin to imagine what it will be like when the F1 is hosted there!

Regarding security - Better to be over cautious than under cautious. Theres probably multiple reasons as to why they are strict even with air crew. I've flown planes into airfields and then gone through security but it doesnt really bother me. I normally just hold a general conversation with them which makes the process nicer and less stressful for all involved. They're doing their job and its all for the safety of everyone involved.

OliWW 5th Jul 2008 22:21

It said on the radio today that they are planning a 100,000,000 expansion of the track, parking, and road extentions, they plan to make the 2x bigger than they are at the moment within the area. and new parking for upto 10,000 cars and upto 2 new hotels within the area... so, i think they have things planned out, and it shouldnt be 2 much of a problem but, theres always something go wrong and you can always predict traffic. Will be a good boost in Cargo and Charter flights :ok:

captain_flynn 5th Jul 2008 22:34

But whats their plans regarding the helicopters flying in and out? The roads are one thing but they've also got to think about helicopters landing and departing in close proximity to EMA.

Beer_n_Tabs 6th Jul 2008 01:57


This reliance on the Disclosure Scotland paperwork is rather pointless to is it not? It's only valid on the day it was issued.
You will get no argument from me there matey..but it has to be done if we want to work in this wibbly wobbly game.

qwertyplop 6th Jul 2008 07:14

Tis true. :hmm:

Chilli Monster 6th Jul 2008 09:38


Originally Posted by OliWW
It said on the radio today that they are planning a 100,000,000 expansion of the track, parking, and road extentions, they plan to make the 2x bigger than they are at the moment within the area. and new parking for upto 10,000 cars and upto 2 new hotels within the area... so, i think they have things planned out, and it shouldnt be 2 much of a problem

With all due respect you're living in cloud cuckoo land. The 100 million investment is centred on the track - NOT the external infrastructure. You need a dedicated dual carriageway from the M1 to the circuit - it isn't going to happen (where would it go to start with?). This is just greed overtaking common sense.

Crusher1 6th Jul 2008 10:03

Chilli Monster is 100% correct regarding road access.

Silverstone used to be a nightmare, however since the building of the A43 they use it as a dedicated dual carriageway to the track, there is no through access on this road during GP weekends. Unless Donnington has a similar plan I fear total chaos.

I can see a situation where someone may take a 2 hour flight to watch the GP only to be met with an even longer journey (time wise) to get from EMA to the track!

In principle the GP is good for the airport and the area as a whole, however unless the access is sorted out first the whole scheme could easily turn into a disaster for those it should be benefiting.

qwertyplop 6th Jul 2008 10:03

They'll make a good track, no doubt about it.

I think they'll have to do what Silverstone did after the 2000 GP and introduce a 'park and ride' scheme. Won't work otherwise.

Or pay the airport to shut for the weekend to commercial traffic and use it as a big old car and helo park. :E

42psi 6th Jul 2008 10:52

Just a thought on the GP situation ........

I'm not convinced it will really happen.

1. Current Donnignton starting point for onsite facilities is way below current Silverstone.

2. Ditto for road infrastructure.

3. Ditto for exec Helis etc.

4. Two years to exceed Silverstone's current infrastructure seems highly improbable (think planning permission alone)?


5. GP was awarded to Brands Hatch not that long ago ..... it didn't move (but did put pressure on BRDC to make some progress on improving Silverstone).



If you look back F1 is an expert at co-ordinating publicity and pressure to achieve what is wanted ........ why make the announcement as this years event starts?

Why not wait until next week, point at annother year's poor facilities at Silverstone etc and say as a result it's moving.


Would it possibly be that with all the GP movers & shakers plus Central/Local Govt. "hangers-on" enjoying corporate hospitality this weekend it's a good strategy to try and overcome a few problems by piling on the pressure?

INKJET 6th Jul 2008 10:56

The powers that be in the highways dept together with local goverment will be well aware of the problems that affected Silverstone and will not want a repeat at EMA. I agree 100% that there will be chaos without some major plans being brought forward to address these issues.

The airport and airlines will be asking the same questions, this event will require a licence in order to go ahead and the police will have to approve any plans not least because of the respones required in the event of a major incident, can you imagine how the emergency service would react if there was a full blown incident?

I think if i was in Tiny town or Easyland i'd be thinking about moving all the volume med flights to either BHX or COV or making them overnight flights for that weekend, in any event trying to run a normal weekend program would end up with so many slot delays, crew problems and pax who miss flights because they can't get near the place.

Of course a lot of pax are so well informed these days they will probably avoid using EMA this weekend in 2010 so its something that all the planners need to get their heads round PDQ


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