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-   -   EAST MIDLANDS - 6 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/287822-east-midlands-6-a.html)

ATNotts 3rd Jul 2011 10:10

Facelookbovvered:

You miss my point completely. If Mr or Mrs Businessperson want to travel via AMS to, say Jakarta from EMA using BMI Baby, they have to check in at EMA to AMS, then on arrival clear immigration, get their hold baggage off the carousel, then go around to departures to checkin with KLM for the flight to Jakarta.

If they were able to fly with KLM from EMA, they would check-in at EMA, get boarding passes issued for EMA/AMS and AMS/JKT, and they bag would be checked through to JKT.

The time and hassle of the BMI Baby option is such that driving to BHX / MAN / LBA and flying KL is more viable, but still timewasting compared with a through routing on KL from EMA, were such a service to exist. CGN is neither daily, nor routing through a major hub airport (CGN is not a major hub airport for LH). BRU is indeed thrice daily, but it is probably the least useful of all the possible hub airports in continental Europe in terms of range of services offered.

Air Humberside

This suggests that it's not a case of BMI not wanting service FRA, but the parent not letting go of valuable long haul slots to make it possible. LH clearly still believe their hub in the Midlands is BHX. EMA's management needs to stop chasing LoCo and seriously go after KLM. Liverpool surely did, and it has resulted in a multi times daily connection to a major hub.

SWBKCB 3rd Jul 2011 10:17


What EMA needs is a full service airline offering the business community in the region, that is supposed to be helping us export our way out of recession get into the export markets and sell!

EMA's management needs to stop chasing LoCo and seriously go after KLM.
That might be what UK plc needs, but would it make more money for MAG? Like it our not, that is their responsibility.

FCAcrewboy 7th Jul 2011 14:11

TOM w11/12
 
Anyone know what ac TOM will be basing at EMA for winter 11? I assume two 752 Same as last winter

OliWW 7th Jul 2011 14:20

Will be 1x B738, and 1x B752

Skipness One Echo 7th Jul 2011 14:39


What EMA needs is a full service airline offering the business community in the region, that is supposed to be helping us export our way out of recession get into the export markets and sell!
There's a good reason bmi in the region are now bmibaby, the market wasn't paying the rates needed to make money for the legacy full service. Many people will agree with you and then go and book with a loco. People lie.

Crusher1 7th Jul 2011 16:23

If I was flying to AMS then I would probably use Baby from EMA.

But if I wanted to get to, say, Adelaide, then EMA is pretty much useless as the BRU connections/prices are not particularly great.

A hub service will attract different customers, I'm sure that at the moment there are lots of business customers who, like me, fly from BHX but out of choice would use EMA.

EastMids 7th Jul 2011 16:27


You miss my point completely. If Mr or Mrs Businessperson want to travel via AMS to, say Jakarta from EMA using BMI Baby, they have to check in at EMA to AMS, then on arrival clear immigration, get their hold baggage off the carousel, then go around to departures to checkin with KLM for the flight to Jakarta. If they were able to fly with KLM from EMA, they would check-in at EMA, get boarding passes issued for EMA/AMS and AMS/JKT, and they bag would be checked through to JKT.
And even more importantly, the risk of baby running late and then KLM or Air France or whoever washing their hands of helping / rebooking without seeking substantial payments when a connection is missed... Just not worth the risk of doing baby to AMS or CDG and then an onward flight with a network carrier unless you have lots and lots of time to spare at the intermediate airport. So most of the connecting traffic from the EMA catchment goes down the road to BHX, to LH or KL or AF - or even to direct services from LHR or MAN.


There's a good reason bmi in the region are now bmibaby, the market wasn't paying the rates needed to make money for the legacy full service.
Actually, I'd suggest Sir Bish got scared that Go would take some (much?) of the lower yielding / back-cabin - but still important - revenue away from British Midland, leaving British Midland with some higher yielding traffic, but not enough to run the services as they were running on 100+ seater jets. As an alternative to the knee-jerk baby launch, that would have been the time when there was some potential to downsize the British Midland operation at EMA - running smaller aircraft focusing on the higher yielding / connecting traffic. But now of course it's broadly too late as too many desirable hub airports are slot regulated, fees have increased, and putting Embraers anywhere makes for a challenging ROI.

In reality though, EMA could have done with a network carrier or two that could move people from one end of their journey at least most of the way to the other end. OK so alliance airlines can through check etc, but even with fairly reasonable prorates if there's two carriers and a connection involved the yields are always going to be diluted versus what can be obtained from carrying point to point traffic - at least if it's one carrier all the way all of the margin goes into one pot. KLM Cityhopper tried (not sure Fokker 50s were ideal and in any case that service suffered a demise due to the then Schipol slot constraints), and of course now the challenge to a network carrier launching services from/to a meaningful hub (BRU is not one such hub - there's not much long haul except to Africa and India) is as above - slots, fees, etc.

Facelookbovvered 7th Jul 2011 23:31

AT Notts
 
I did miss your point and i agree with you re interline traffic, although i had heard that baby was indeed going to do this from 2012.

From a business travel point of view the through connection is important, but you really do get clobbered for APD, but hey if your employer is paying who gives a sh*t

You can avoid the heavy APD by flying to AMS with the likes of baby or Jet2, but you need a good buffer timewise, say 24 hours, the problem with AMS is there isn't much Star stuff out of there

[email protected] 18th Aug 2011 07:28

Thought I would get this updated:

TNT have started using their new B777F on the Liege - EMA routing making it the second scheduled airline to use the triple to the airport.

Obv since Brad Miller has come in with his fanfair stating that he wants to get the airport back up towards 2009 PAX figures, there has been nothing new for months now. Passenger figure are still average to poor.

Did hear on the grapevine of KLM / AF management have been to the airport but wern't forthcoming with the offer of a AMS or CDG route. Best the airport can now hope for is either bmibaby to FRA with the ability to connect to LH or even LH starting with their own metal with again I have heard they arent willing to do.

EMA has become very stale. Only new routes due to start now is Cape Verde in November. Its becoming a 3rd world airport. Infact, I have been to much better airports in 3rd world contries.

Radisson blu hotel is at least something positive

OliWW 18th Aug 2011 09:17

Sorry to disappoint even more, but TNT wont be using the 777 from Sept...

ATNotts 18th Aug 2011 18:07

3rd. World Airport
 
In terms of passenger facilities you can't argue with that, but then if you sell your soul to the cheap and cheerful end of the PAX market that's the consequence.

However, as a cargo hub EMA is second to none in the UK, and I still believe that is where it's future lies, unless it can "rebalance it's economy" with a mix of full service and lo-co operators.

Trouble is that to do that they have to up their game facilitieswise, which costs money, which they are probably unwilling to invest, as FR, WW, LS and the ITX carriers won't want to pay to use them.

When the lo-co bubble eventually bursts, as it surely will, it's difficult to see, presently, where EMA sees it's future as a passenger terminal.

Facelookbovvered 18th Aug 2011 19:00

seems fairly well balanced to me, which airports other than MAN have a good level of full service airlines, in the regions, not Leeds,Newcastle or STN

Lots of cargo, lots of LoCo,& IT = lots of passengers lots of income, i don't see people stopping going to Spain or Poles to Poland? mind you they spend bugger all

Where else can you admire the splendour of our wind turbine that stand like Guardians that never move, or go round for that matter!!

ATNotts 21st Aug 2011 10:45

Profits and PAX down
 
This report from the BBC news website today.

BBC News - Passenger numbers drop at East Midlands Airport

Slightly curious, but not surprising I suppose in this spin driven age, to find a set of poor figures released to the media on a Sunday.

Contrast this with a set of good (financial) figures from BHX, despite even worse falls in passenger numbers and you begin to realise why a balance of business and leisure services is vital to the (business) health of a regional airport.

MAG is not a "real" private sector company, being owned in the majority by local authorities, but still I bet the shareholders would have been happier with the financial performance of BHX than their subsidiary at EMA.

Facelookbovvered 21st Aug 2011 12:03

I think given every thing that's going on in the world right now these figures aren't bad, a lot of people have stayed home this year, its not been a bad summer weather wise, with very little rain in the Midlands this past 3 months, not hot, but by and large dry.

High fuel cost & APD have taken ticket cost out of the realm of " lets nip off to PRG for the weekend" into "hang on we can get a weeks holiday in the sun for that money"!

For many its just too much hassle

But the LoCo keep pouring into EMA with talk of Monarch & Wizz in 2012, I'm staggered at how many flights per day the likes of FAO PMI ALC AGP have from EMA, just a few years back there wouldn't have been that many in a week, there is just no way that LS,WW & FR are filling these flights? who will blink first?

OliWW 21st Aug 2011 14:14

Market is quite clearly there for routes like FAO, AGP, ALC, PMI... relatively speaking, flights are between 85-95% full with FR at the current time, there could be 180 on the first AGP, and 170 on the second (40 mins later) quite easily on a Saturday. The time will come sooner or later when passengers will want to explore newer destinations, which will hopefully bring back routes we have lost due to recession and what not....

Drive4it 24th Aug 2011 14:05

EMA - CFU
 
Hi all,
Does anyone know what aircraft is used on EMA - CFU Fridays 0650, i believe it serves a "W Route" with EMA-CFU-LBA-CFU-EMA.
Flew EMA - RHO earlier in the Summer, and had a great flight on board a 737-800, and was hoping for the same aircraft.

Cheers Guys

Mr Angry from Purley 24th Aug 2011 18:10

Here's an important question. Why are the wind farm generators (not sure of the technical term) permanantly broken. There's not one day that goes by when either both or one of them are u/s. I'm relying on them to indicate the wind direction when i'm cycling home and if it's going to to be easy ride....:\

jabird 24th Aug 2011 22:42

I'll add my tuppence on EMA & network players.

Looking through KL's or AF's eyes, I'd be thinking 'where or what is East Midlands'? The airport serves three major cities, but isn't adjacent to any of them - so I think it's usefelness is watered down. A hub feeder needs multiple daily to provide connectivity - and there are plenty more options at MAN or BHX.

Also, just how much more valuable is a business / connecting passenger to the airport, as opposed to the airline? If the family is parking and buying a meal, and the legacy passenger is being dropped off and buying a coffee, I'll take the loco passenger. I suspect that EMA's surface car parks are a pretty major source of easy revenue.

Of course - never say never, Lufty have launched FRA from ABZ, but alternative airports aren't a quick spin up the M42.

jabird 24th Aug 2011 22:46


But if I wanted to get to, say, Adelaide, then EMA is pretty much useless as the BRU connections/prices are not particularly great.
Crusher, I really don't think a feeder to AMS, CDG or FRA would be that useful either, as you need to skip much further east to get a direct connection to ADL. Even MAN-SIN-ADL with SQ has a stop in MUC. For other key cities on the Kangaroo route, BHX or MAN to DXB provides a much more useful one-stop connection than any European hub will - or at least until TK launch IST-SYD, which I believe will be possible in the A350.

binsleepen 24th Aug 2011 22:50

Hi,

Jet2 announced flights to Pisa, from EMA, for Summer 2012 today, to add to Malaga and Murcia announced a few months ago.

Regards


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