Comments on Fly Be
 

Hi all,
This is my first posting on this site having just registered, and I would just like to say that I am a huge supporter of Cardiff Airport, and would really like it to be successful. We do need to see new airlines and new routes being developed from Cardiff, however, with so much opportunity for new destinations, why does Fly be want to serve a city (Belfast) that is already well served by BMI BABY?. They would be far more successful in developing a new route like Paris. Likewise, why did BMI BABY enter the Amsterdam route as that is already well served by KLM?.

Finally for now, congratulations to all the staff at Cardiff for all their hard work in coping with the extra workload of the last few days, due to the problems over at Bristol. Well done.

Can somebody please explain to me this fascination with a route from Cardiff to New York?? If Cardiff is to get longhaul, the Middle East would be a far better bet I would have thought....
Re flybe - the reason they are doing BHD we covered in depth earlier - they are testing the water for the forthcoming bunfight with baby at BHX....
KLM and baby? Easy one - KLM don't really fly people to AMS - they fly people via AMS to somewhere else in the main. Baby fly people to AMS, since they have no interline agreements.

Got to say,working the last couple of days how impressed i was with Cardiff:) taking all things in to consideration it was on the surface a success:ok: No doubt there was the odd hick-up,but think on it as a good bit of training(busy ops with fast turn arounds) for the airport as a whole.well done.Shame the ghost town will be back soon:(

Watching the BRS fiasco from afar the thing that made me laugh / cry was the interviews with the passengers. Nearly all the ones I saw were complaining (in a strong Welsh accent) that they had driven to BRS from south wales and now had to be bused back again. Nearly all were quoted as flying to destinations served from CWL, which begs the obvious question !!!! I know it is a busy time of year but it was an interesting indication of the problem CWL based airlines have with people's perception that EasyJet are at BRS and that is the cheapest way to do anything.

Holidaying in sunny south wales over Christmas had several interesting discussions with people who insisted they went EasyJet from BRS instead of Baby from Cardiff because they were always a few quid cheaper ! They didn't seem to have an answer to "well how much does it cost to drive to and park at BRS then?". Quality thinking. "Hey if we spend a couple of hudred quid more we can save a fiver!"

That's CWL's and all the airlines problem. For example I asked someone why they went to DUB from BRS. The answer was because Ryanair don't fly from Cardiff anymore. These are ordinary, actually reasonably intelligent, people living around Cardiff. This is why BRS is taking so much business from South Wales EasyJet and Ryaniar are perceived to be cheaper than Baby and the nieche operators at CWL. I'll try and remember that when I use my £5 baby ticket to Alicante next week !

Yes Cheeky Visual ,
so much for the argument always thrown back at us about no one in Wales flies or the catchment area isn't big enough. Loads and loads of Welsh accents there on all the news reports, very disappointing that they go to Bristol not Cardiff but as so often is the case you can't get the flights from Cardiff or EasyJet is just so cheap in comparison.
I've just had a phone call from a friend in the North East wanting to fly down here asking me if I knew of any other operator other than Eastern flying into Cardiff , they don't want to pay Easterns prices so they think they will fly into Bristol instead at a much lower cost and take the hit on the extra time involved, all a crying shame.

John Horne was on BBC Wales this afternoon. Short but funny interview as he seemed very smug about how well its all gone (Which it has - well done to all staff involved!) and even more smuggly being asked how well CWL has capitalised on the situation both financially and by using this to attract other airlines, but avoiding giving a direct answer to the reporter on the subject, and sending his deepest sympathy to BRS for their unfortunate situation they've had to deal with! :ok: :D
Its nice to see that after the bashing CWL got for the recent fog delays, that they rose to the occasion in order to help BRS out as much as possible, as BRS did a few weeks ago for CWL.
Lucky its winter season, and shame there wasnt more stands to park planes though!!!!!!:ugh:

I must agree whith you there. John Horne has had a lot to be smug about this week, 2,000,000 PAX (though please see my post above) Now the BRS fiasco as Incompetant BRS unable to competentley resurface a runway, while wonderful CWL manges to handle 3 times its usual traffic. But will it win the day?

I've always been obvious that alot more Welsh pax fly from BRS than the airports official masterplan suggests (10%). Some figures in the echo a while back stated that its nearer 25-30%. There was a family on the news who were from Bridgend and they were moaning about why they couldn't just check in straight away at CWL for Majorca, despite the fact that if they had looked in the first place they could have gone with baby and thomsonfly! Regarding DUB though it is actually worth going over to BRS with FR because sometimes the prices are just too high with Aer Arann!

It is quite silly really for people to be using easyjet for places like EDI, GLA because baby are cheaper in my experience on the domestic routes by some margin. The airport really needs to start marketing itself better or perhaps baby should actually advertise its routes more, because frankly over the last year I've seen more easy adverts in Cardiff than ones for baby!

Right a1234 I have in 06, can honestly say outside the airport I have seen, no, zero, 0, zilch baby adverts on billboards or in the papers. While about 15/20 adverts, all bar one, dare I say, a baby destination (the other being Croatia). I could go down the road in two minutes and see a EZY billboard. Right next to a Zoom one. Yet I have also seen EZY adverts in the Western Mail, Wales on Sunday. baby mind sponsers the ITV weather, and thats about it. Considering I watch the BBC news I dont really see them. I have also seen baby being cheaper than EZY on domestics and with BE this year Belfast prices are going to drop. While what they should do is have higher fares domesticaly and lower on internationals. As people are willing to travel to BRS for the likes of AGP, PMI and ALC, but BIZ PAX will want to fly from nearer to their homes. Well thats my opinion anyway

There are an awful lot of buses round here painted up in baby colours. Maybe the locals can't read a moving target?
:confused:

I'm still annoyed that bmi don't fly to Paris any more. Maybe I'm one of the few people on the planet who prefer Air Chance to KLM (now that KLM and Air Chance are supposedly as one and I see KLM as the loser, from a customer point of view). I now have to travel to Paris via Amsterdam. If that were unavailable I'd actually go to Heathrow rather than put up with the journey to Bristol airport. However, it's about time that there was a decent direct link from the M4 to CWL rather than enduring the 'death of a thousand roundabouts, on the present route :uhoh:

I`m sure there was plans to straighten out the five mile lane that were made public,but nothing has came of it:ugh:

You mean the airport one (meaning one litterally)? Plus seen first CWL-BHD advert yesterday in the Echo! From £21.99 near the middle on the Shirley Bassey special page.

True that a lot of PAX at BRS had Welsh and one moaning about going from Swansea to BRS to CWL, to go to AGP. Please, one of the most frequently flown routes from CWL, baby daily, TOM 5x weekly, never mind FCA and co in the winter. Fly from CWL PAX!

Smile!!!

Don't forget Cardiff has a rail link as well, so "death by roundabouts" isn't the only way!

The service ain't super-posh, but it's regular and does the job. I would guess that there would need to be more regular scheduled demand at the airport before anyone will start considering a direct shuttle train that doesn't stop at every single station on the way.

I don't think that time-wise, the transport links take any longer than many other major international airports, it's just that the road system in the Vale is pretty (totally?) hopeless. The "magical mystery tour" that is the recommended car / coachlink to Bristol is just as bad to be honest.

Daniel

P.S. It would be a shame to see five mile lane turned into a safe, straight, wide truck route- I also know that the wealthy and influential residents of St Nicholas are also pretty anti-trunking.

Boys and Girls, it isn't all a one-way thing.

I live in the south-east of Bristol an area that is probably the most onerous Bristol district to reach CWL from by road - it means driving right across or almost right around the city. And yet a neighbour always uses CWL to fly to AGP on holiday. Neither he nor his wife are Welsh (so no loyalty thing) but he did it once and has got into the habit. They live fifteen minutes by road from BRS.

I know and know of a lot of other people in the area who also use CWL at times.

BTW, quite a lot of people with Welsh accents live in the Bristol area so some of those BRS pax you hear from time to time might not have come across the bridge to fly at all.

Flybe seem good at advertising when they set up at a new airport. Two or three years ago every Bristol bus seemed to be bearing Flybe or easyJet adverts. Flybe also sponsors the Bristol-based ITV West local weather report - a bit odd considering they seem to be about to depart from BRS.

Two or three years ago there was also a First Bristol double decker painted completely in Cardiff Airport insignia and routes on service around Bristol.

Furthermore, there is still a perception amongst some in the Bristol area that CWL is a bigger airport (in terms of usage, it is physically of course) with more routes. It probably has its roots in the fact that CWL has been the place to use for Florida, Toronto and the Caribbean.

From this side of the Severn it seems to me that airlines are increasingly realising that CWL is under-served and that with the right product there are opportunities going begging.

Why is GLA down to just one a day from March?! What a joke there will be four daily Belfast flights from May but just one for glasgow?!

How will this support business pax the only option will be to use BRS as always.

To be fair to ww, they announced Glasgow to go to 1xdaily and BFS to 2xdaily before BE announced BHD. It is quite possible BE may go to Glasgow before 07 is out, if they expand their 'base' at CWL, BRS a two hour drive from Cardiff at rush hours? Think not.

MV I didnt realise that CWL had such a large user base near BRS, the L/H routes from CWL must certinaley be helping the image of CWL, so the runway issue at BRS. I do think though that some people think that BRS is a much smaller airport than it actually is, I know my freind though it was, when he couldnt get a flight to go to Barcelona insted of oging to BRS, he went to MAN, as it isnt served from CWL (but in the summer TOM will start a 4 weekly service from CWL year round!). Good work too all CWL airport staff who did well in the recent situation!

I heard from someone that Baby have not been able to recover the loads on the GLA that were lost when Air Wales moved the route from GLA to PIK. A lot of loyal pax switched to BRS and have not returned. EDI has always been the stronger route. and if they have to make the same resources do more destinations some regularity has to give. There definately isn't the business on BFS/BHD for 4 flights a day. Having operated the route there is barely enough for one ! Something is going to have to give. If Baby give Fly Be will move hard on the domestic routes at CWL and BHX against Baby especially as they seem to be giving EASY and Ryanair a very wide berth at BRS and EMA.

That of course is if Fly Be have any pilots to fly them or trainers to train the pilots ! All of BACON and large percentage of Fly Be looking to get out.

Baby would like to expand CWL, EMA and BHX. However, there is a massive lack of 733s and 735s in the market. There are no 73NGs available unless you are Ryanair, Air Berlin or Southwest. Baby have to make a decission about where the ONE aircraft they have got can make the most difference. CWL to defend against Fly Be and TOM, BHX to actively fight Fly Be, or EMA to defend against Ryanair. If they could get another two CWL would definately get another aircraft and with Ryanair expanding from 3 a/c to 10 a/c at EMA this year my money is on it going there. Unfortunately ! Personally I would put in CWL (but I'm biased) you can't fight Ryanair and you're mad to try !

Still keeping my fingers crossed for CWL though !

The downgrading of GLA is such a dissapointment though because this is the second most popular domestic route and has always been popular whenever I have flown. Lets just hope Flybe will take this route on because it would be worthwile and they could probably provide more frequencies.

I suspect that the route will lose even more pax now to BRS, its not very good for business pax because 1 a day is just not good enough.

Any news of Flybe announcing their merged network later in the month? Is it likely they will publish any more routes for CWL because Paris and Nice were rumoured last month.

Cheeky Visual
Just for info Air Wales did not move the route,BMI baby switched it from GLA to PIK in late July 03 and Air Wales started operating on Babys behalf on the 28th March 04:ok:

Where did you hear that one?

I had the pleasure or should i say delight of actually trying Cardiff out last week with TOM and im impressed with the airport. Still want more services to EMA but it was a pleasant experience at CWL

Regards

Stu

I havent heard of Ryanair basing 10 a/c at EMA next year either although they have announced a major expasion for this year. With also EZY strong at EMA, WW would be stupid to take them on under such a situation. The only real options for new bases are therfore MAN and CWL. With CWL having BE and TOM putting extra strain on them this year I think it quite right they should base an extra a/c at CWL. BE are going for them a Birmingham aswell and the baby needs to 'defend its turf!' (Me being kool there:O)

Well the airport has certinaley changed over the years, and is a hell of a lot better than it was, say in 2000 from a PAX point of view!

Heard 10 a/c at EMA from an EMA based Ryanair skipper. He said a year but he might have mean't eventually. He does like to "big up" the harpies to anyone who'll listen ! Still think Baby will try to defend EMA but I don't think they can win. Everyone I know says they hate flying with Ryanair but they still seem to fill their seats. CWL or BHX would present the best return on a/c 21 that's where the most potential is.

As for Air Wales and PIK. It was an ex Air Wales Captain that told me Air Wales ruined the route. Sorry if that caused offence I know it was not the fault of anyone working at the sharp end !

Just looked at the latest Fly Be plan and there is still no mention of extra CWL routes this year but GLA would be a strong bet for a further expansion.

Not true. The nature of the Air Wales and bmibaby marketing agreement was that baby told Air Wales where to fly, and when. Baby sold the seats, Wales delivered them - and did a great job of it too, for the record. AW had nothing to do with the timing of the route, PIK v GLA, fares or anything else.

TA

Under the bmibaby marketing agreement Air Wales had no control over the bmibaby fares. Many people will remember that it was the decision of bmibaby to transfer the route from GLA to PIK before Air Wales took over the operation of the route.

bmibaby operates in a limited market at Cardiff, with lower demographics of the South Wales area and a lower overall propensity to fly I can't see bmibaby ever expanding to a large extent.

CWL has hardly got a small catchment area or the people are less keen to fly, when you see how many Welsh people are flying from BRS!

Baby PIK
 

AW took over the route from Baby who had changed the destination to PIK from GLA. If you had looked at the CAA ststs for the route the figures did not change and the numbers equated to a double daily ATR route figures that were held all the time AW operated. When Baby took the route back it was to GLA but the loads work out at less than a 737 load a day one rotation. There where lots of happy regulars using PIK who complained to AW when Baby a) took route back and b) changed dest to GLA. PIK has a station with 50% off rail fares to all of Scotland and only 20 minutes to Glasgow Queen Street at the wrong time of the day its longer by road from GLA to the city centre.

Any one heard of oneWales they have put in a bid for CWL-Valley with a metroliner?

Ps. CDFF going to SEN 15th SSEA expected mid Feb

Ooooh, I love arguing this one!

The lower propensity to fly of the South Welsh is often thrown into the face of Cardiff's supporters. For the record, it is a horse manure statistic that shouldn't be used in this context.

Yes, on a straight calculation, the South Welsh DO have a lower propensity to fly - for the simple reason that, if you live west of Cardiff, you have a LONG trip to an airport, which makes your cheap weekend in Paris/Berlin etc etc a pain in the bum. Propensity to fly is a blunt weapon based in the main on ABILITY to fly - if someone lives in the southeast of England and can get just about anywhere in Europe from a convenient airport, then of course they will score more highly than someone who has to drive from, say, Llanelli to Bristol to get somewhere.

If Cardiff had the routes, then the PTF from South Wales would rise. PTF onbly has a real purpose if two populations with similar OPPORTUNITY to fly are compared.

TA

PTP
 

Twinaisle is correct do not forget you can get stats to say anything you want. Read the ROSCO report on Aviation in the UK as a whole not just in Wales. BRS is a large draw because of its routes yes CWL needs more routes but you have to attract the passengers. When AW did the ORK for Baby passengers where comming from as far as Birmingham as this was the best route for them. LPL did a pax survey on EZY flts and found that a large percentage 50% plus came from East Yorkshire bypassing LBA and MAN. If you look at the ROSCO the greatest PTP in 2000/2002 was in Scotland the lowest in Wales was the north followed by mid. Find the market the passengers want give a good service be fair with ticket price and keep the passengers using the airport. I know a lot of you want FlyBe to expand at CWL but be cautious you do not want eggs in one basket you need a variety of operators running sustainable routes. So CWL needs to attract passengers from a much larger catchment area than just South Wales. Transport links are vital to an airport i know the argument that BRS is dificulty to get to they have got the airlines and the routes that makes up for the ground connections. CWL could look at get Ariva Wales to start train services going to the Airport not just as a local feeder. Was there not a statment that FGW where going to start services to Rhoose. Direct services to West Wales, Mid Wales, Hereford and Gloucester with out a change of train would be a good start. Then maybe the airlines the railways coach operators could go the last mile and intergrate timetables (the holy grail of transport). It is possible just needs some thought. I reguarly commute throught SOU. I land and within 1 hour i am on a train direct to Cardiff. Before Christmas i landed at Shoreham(Brighton International) and again within an hour i was on a train to Cardiff. However my wife then has to drive for nearly two hours to pick me up. Gatwick, Manchester and Stansted have made the train work for them BRS cannot come on CWL a potential big market that would offset carbon as well.

Hi, Do you know of anyother operators that have placed a bid for the route?

WOWBOY

FlyBe
 

I have spoken to Flybe and they have told me that there will not be an aircraft based at Cardiff, and that there is no plans at the moment to add anymore routes. It has also been announced that Aviance will be the handling agents for them at CWL

Also the Contract for Thomsons is up for grabs with Aviance placing in a bid to handle them, decision to be made shortly.

:ok:

FYI....
The First Great Western service was going to be an extension of the Portsmouth-Cardiff route. It was in their franchise outline that an hourly extension to Barry and Rhoose should be costed- I think that WAG were going to fund it. The extension appeared in the draft December 06 timetable, and Rhoose / Barry were still listed (but no service) in the final draft. However, nothing turned up in the end.
I think that the biggest problem is that the route from Cardiff to Barry has a train every 15mins + regular freight, so there are capacilty issues.
Pity, because it would also make sense for Arriva to divert some Carmarthen trains via the airport to encourage West Walians to use CWL (as it is their nearest airport). Also if the airlines get the price right, people from the mid-wales / UK border may also be tempted.

At present, the service is hourly, the train going to Cardiff at 07 past the hour and Bridgend at 11 pth. Many people like to avoid Cardiff and go via Bridgend (this links to the London service whilst avoiding commuters!). Arriva wants to put the service to half hourly if funds / rolling stock permits.

I agree that the current service is not exactly the Gatwick Express, but it is a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation- if CWL had more flights (esp a loco), Arriva could justify upgrading the service. I have also made several trips to Manchester Airport in a similar "commuter buckets" with no decent lugage space, so I think the current arrangement is not unreasonable as it goes- no use diverting extra trains for ten pax per day!
Having said that, the exclusivity of the Gatwick Express is also currently under threat, because extra capacity is needed for commuters.
Daniel

Well that's a real shame actually. I think many people were hoping that they would take on some routes like Paris or another domestic route such as Aberdeen, which both could work.

Yeah i also heard that they may extend it to the airport, which would be very good and.

I have also heard that they may build a new station near Llantrisant years to come with a Bus link to the airport, because if the InterCity were to run through roose it would increase the journy time considerably.


I am sure that when eastern came to Cardiff they advertised that they were going to start 3 routes which was the NCL, BRU AND THE Aberdeen. To be honest the Eastern didn't really attract pax on the BRU i think the most i seen on there were 5. And i have never seen a Cardiff to Aberdeen Flight.

You never know flybe may add more routes soon, since BMIBaby don't want to expand in the airport this summer.

For those people moaning about the CDG route to be picked up, there is a romour that Thomson may operate it's 737 there in S07.

Can't believe BMIBaby didn't want to add a fourth aircraft at CWL this year, even though were one of the most profitable out of their bases.

:ok:

My understanding is that Baby would very much like to expand their base at CWL. It is where they make the most money. However, they just can not source anymore 733s or 735s. They can't get NGs without a considerable cost penalty (crew training etc..) even if there were any and the 319 would only be considered at the point of total fleet renewal some way off.

Having spoken to a couple of my fellow exciles who are hoping to return by way of baby it is now increasingly likely baby will put the one aircraft they can source into BHX for the battle with Fly Be. That is their priority. Beat Fly Be and secure the company's future. If they don't they may not be around to expand CWL anyway !

Strange why the airport website states FLYBE as opening a "base" at Cardiff.I would have be lead to believe an aircraft would have been based at Cardiff:ugh: It is a shame what about Aberdeen(an old route),Paris,Brussels,Glasgow(only x1 daily soon),Newcastle(i know Eastern),German route,Nice ect

Thomson and Servisairs contract is one of the longest handling contract in the UK. Cant see them swapping over. The main reason Servisair may be coming back to the ramp was because Thomson were pushing for it after last years ramp problems.

As for FlyBe. Their definately holding back on something. Its either going to be back to BRS, or more expansion at CWL. They are keeping everything very quiet until the end of the month once the BA deal is complete. I wouldnt give up hope just yet. I heard a rumour they would have 3 or 4 a/c based within next few years. The market is there!

Eh?
 

New to this so i guess id start by posting a rumour, that may not have any consistancy but its worth a look.

I found the following on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CWL

Future plans
The airport's management announced, on 29 March 2006, a £100m development strategy which will see the current terminal being extended, as well as upgrades to the main body of the building.
It is anticipated that the investment will attract up to 5m passengers by 2015 - an increase of 150% - according to the airport's published response to a UK Government White paper on the future of commercial aviation throughout the United Kingdom.
Rumour has it that BA will be starting a direct service with a boeing 777-200 aircraft with a daily flight to NEW YORK (JFK) and united airlines will be staring a service to washigton dulles using a 767-300 aircraft.
Further to that Ehiad Airlines are looking to open a base at the airport, further details to follow.

United and Ba? never heard of this before, what do you guys think?????

Mind i think Thomson don't understand that the majority of the staff are ex-servisair and i heard some of the complaints were regarding the staff. (Maybe the new project manager has got a few tricks up his sleeve).

If baby don't fight at Cardiff though they will loose that, theres a lot of flights being NON/OP over the next few weeks. Thomson are groing at Cardiff, and First Choice don't seem to want to bother after giving us the canadians last year and not basing any rep or engineer here.

Does anyone know when their going to start turning the whole of upstairs into departures? (no doubt the carnage will start in the middle of summer again).

:ok:

There been a lot of gripes with how Aviance have treated the ramp staff. Changes in rosters... supplying qualifed staff, workload etc.
But saying that, if servisair do take on the ramp, they'll have to take on a fair few new staff and have them trained up in time for the summer. That may go wrong as well unless they put some serious investment in!
As for First Choice. Eventually someone will have taken over them (MyTravel, Thomas Cook, Virgin too apparently)
First Choice are rumoured to have a A321 base during the summer...can anyone confirm this?
Its confirmed MyTravel are.
The way Thomson are going they will dominate the bucket and spade routes over baby, by looks of it, in the summer CWL will be their 3rd largest base next to LGW and MAN,.... and IF Flybe do expand at Cardiff...they will give Baby a run for their money on domestic.
As far as terminal extension goes, they need to finish off everything else first!
Heard the Exec Lounge is doing really well and possible further expansion to that is an option. How about somewhere for the rest of the pax?! A sniff of a delay and its standing room only im afraid!
Now the Staff canteen has gone, they should extend into the service yard..... and how about a small extra domestic arrivals hall by the new pier (by security lodge) to save all the heartache and farcical arguments with immigration and their prescious new hall!!!