Thanks for that Jack1985, I wasn't aware of that.

I have just come across a really strange Ryanair flight schedule.

On Wednesday's through the winter season, Ryanair flight FR8321 departs from Stansted to Valencia at 06:45. Of course you'd think obviously a Stansted based aircraft... but no!

Ryanair flight FR8322 gets into Stansted at 06:20 after departing from Valencia at 04:45 (local time)!!!

I highly suspect this will be changed in due course, it's incredibly unlike Ryanair to fly at such times (and I don't think many passengers will want to get to the airport at 02:30am for a Ryanair flight!) but interesting as to why they've done it anyhow.

FR will launch flights to Comiso (Sicily) in mid-September.

Anyone know when FR flights to SZG for winter 13/14 are going on sale? Nothing scheduled as yet.

There's still quite a few routes still not yet on sale. None of the Scandinavian routes are released yet as well as several others.

Salzburg and Turin both tend to get extra flights from December since they are ski routes, along with the addition of Grenoble. They tend to release Salzburg at the usual frequency (about 4x per week) initially then add extra flights when the ski flights are released. If you wish to fly between mid December and April, you may want to hang on until the full winter ski schedule is released, which could be a little bit later in the year, in order to get the best choice of flights.

Thank you!

seems like a good deal
 

I assume that this is connected with the expected large aircraft order at the Paris Air Show.


Stansted agrees deal with easyJet to reverse decline - Telegraph


Manchester Airports Group (MAG), which bought the Essex airport for £1.5bn in February, has signed a long-term agreement with easyJet that will see the low cost airline increase its passenger numbers out of Stansted from 2.8m to 6m over the next five years.

The partnership is a major coup for MAG, which is aiming to restore confidence in Stansted after customer numbers collapsed under its previous owner BAA, the group now known as Heathrow Airport Holdings.

Passenger numbers reached a peak of 23.8m in 2007 before the financial crisis but have since slumped to 17.5m.

The reversal was blamed on a decline in leisure travel during the recession - upon which Stansted is heavily dependent - but airlines also pointed a finger at BAA’s pricing structure. BAA fought a three-year legal battle to keep hold of Stansted but was told last summer that it would have to hang a “for sale” sign on the asset.

MAG is hoping to restore Stansted as a serious player in the London market by attracting an extra 5.5m passengers a year over the next five years. The airport, which is distinguished by its Norman Foster-designed terminal building, has plenty of spare capacity and believes it can play a significant role in satisfying demand for flights to and from London.

However, Andrew Harrison, the new managing director, of Stansted, said there are currently a lot of misconceptions about the airport, which might have discouraged airlines and passengers from choosing it over rivals Gatwick, Heathrow and Luton in the past.
“There’s a lot about Stansted which is misunderstood,” Mr Harrison said. “There’s a perception that it is hard to get to. There are trains every 15 minutes out of Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale.
“This [deal with easyJet] will hopefully give confidence to other airlines that Stansted is a real option.”
Over the next two years MAG will invest £50m to improve facilities for passengers, including speeding up the security process.
EasyJet had reduced capacity at Stansted over the last 2-3 years in favour of Southend, which had a more competitive pricing structure. At present, it operates eight aircraft from Stansted, which can serve up to 27 routes, but it intends to more than double its customer base at the airport over the next five years.
In February, Stansted’s biggest customer Ryanair threatened to cut capacity by 9pc in response to an increase in charges but is now in talks with the new owner about its operations.
Stansted has planning permission to accommodate 35m passengers a year without building a second runway
Mr Harrison said the airport could help “bridge the gap” in capacity in the South East over the next 10 years, while the Government-appointed Airports Commission decides where additional runways should be built.
The airport is also hoping to attract long-haul carriers that will offer direct routes to the Middle East and Asia.
“There’s only really Stansted that has got spare capacity [in the South East],” Mr Harrison said. “We could add 130 flights a year. We believe that will go a long way to bridge the gap in terms of spare capacity.”

"130 a year"......that'll really help!

Currently they have about 180 or 190 a day in the summer and so I think it's supposed to say 130 per day?

Either way, and can't say LGS and the other Luton fanboys will be happy by this. I don't usually like the say "I told you so!" but I take great pleasure in making an exception to you LGS [if you ever dare to let yourself come across this story that is].

Andrew Harrison, the new managing director, of Stansted, said "There are currently a lot of misconceptions about the airport, which might have discouraged airlines and passengers from choosing it over rivals Gatwick, Heathrow and Luton in the past.

There’s a lot about Stansted which is misunderstood.” There’s a perception that it is hard to get to. There are trains every 15 minutes out of Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale."

Perhaps it's time for us all to have a bit more faith in Stansted. And Luton fans, and LGS in particular, it looks like us who have kept faith in Stansted are not the only ones you are being told by!

Perhaps it's time for you take wake up and smell the coffee and never again lecture me on ridiculous analysis on where is the "wrong place".

It looks like I'm not so unaware of the pressures in the industry after all and it's in fact you who has embarrassed their intelligence and knowledge in the industry by being so dismissive to any potential growth at Stansted simply for your support of Luton.

Without being sour, I hope this news comes as a right slap in the face to you, and may even finally place into the world of reality!

That's not a very nice thing to say.

Nothing wrong with Stansted and in my opinion it is a much better airport than Luton is.

Stansted has issues like it can't attract that much Biz jet traffic but then high flyers don't want to catch a train from deepest Essex.

I wonder where all the London airports will be in 5 year time? I guess time will tell and we will all still be talking about it here:ok:

You're right LTNman. What will the 2015 Airports Review say? Expand LHR of course. Will it happen? Well..................... not with a Lab/Lib coalition......

The last part was more aimed at my good friend LGS! I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise:( There has been a huge conflict in opinion between us an I can't help feeling a little bit arrogant in a way when news like this turns out, I suppose because I can imagine the shame they must be feeling when its a time to be hopeful and optimistic.

Assuming EasyJet start this growth by summer 2014, I can't see any other London airport really losing out. Remember EasyJet is known for flying to larger and quality airports and in my opinion, their main London bases being Gatwick and Stansted is long over due, yet Luton and Southend will still remain important to them and continue to grow in the longer term.

There could be an element of route switching, and I do think Luton may be more effected by this than Southend (as somebody suggested in the Luton thread, a route like Tel-Aviv is a good example of one that could be switched). What's important to remember is that Gatwick is totally safe where EasyJet in concerned.

Southend serves a sort of niche and more local market (that's why migration of routes from Stansted to Southend rather than operating from both airports highly angered me, and couldn't see that as a widening catchment area). And their recent commitment and promotional efforts there would make them highly stupid to move away now.

Luton could see a small amount of route switching to Stansted and frequency cuts, but at the end of the day, Luton is by some margin already the 2nd largest base for them and with it being their home airport, it's always going to be special and an important part of EasyJet's business.

The airport perhaps most in question was Stansted until today, and this move only emphasises EasyJet's desire to operate a growing route network and volume of traffic at all four of the London airports they serve. And of course the new aircraft order expected to be announced soon gives EasyJet huge potential to do this.

FRatSTN

It is good news that STN is seeing signs of positive development & I am sure there is more to come.

However, please don't turn this isn't a slanging match / "willy waving" contest with other London airports! I don't think most people here want to wade through a load of "my airport is better than your airport" guff to get to the real news. :=

Thank you!

El-Al tried Stansted but the North London Jews live close to the M1 and easyjet has just followed El-Al.

As for London bases I would think that operating out of 3 airports is cheaper than operating out of 4.

If Easyjet did pull out of Southend would they lose any passengers? probably not

Are easyjet diluting their loads from other London airports by operating out of 4 airports? probably yes.

Competition rules and no airport has a divine right to succeed. The battle has begun with Luton and Southend looking like the weak players at the moment.

commit aviation

I think you are missing my point completely. I'm doing the exact opposite of what you accuse me of. I'm saying all the London airports have a chance to grow in EasyJet traffic in sympathy with one another and that very few reductions I think will be made in Luton and Southend in light of this news, unlike what a lot of other people on this forum are concerned about. Never at any point did I specifically site Stansted as "my airport" or better than any other.

LTNman, if the price is right the pax will vote with their feet. They coped with getting to STN for many years longer than the current LTN operation, Israir and Sun D'or also drifted in and out during that time.

I think the expansion will play to some of STN's traditional strengths which have dwindled in recent years, and where they aren't directly head to head with FR. As I mentioned on another thread Scandinavia could be one of these (the main capital airports and the likes of Bergen, Stavanger and Keflavik) which could be a retaliation against Norwegian at LGW, and Turkey which STN really is the favoured airport in terms of ethnic population and for which there are still opportunities since the demise of KTHY, most notably Antalya, which still haven't really been picked up.

From Travel Mole:

EasyJet signs deal for major expansion at Stansted

But I will quote two paragraphs direct:

It would have been odd if EZY were not talking to the new management at STN. They are acting as a well-run commercial business, securing themselves as many options as possible in the south-east market. They seem keenest on Gatters at present - yields are highest there - but now they have the ability to play the other three bases off against eachother.

If a new aircraft order is forthcoming, they may make full use of their newly-negotiated capacity at STN. They could move 3 or 4 aircraft from LTN to STN, but moving established routes would seem like taking unnecessary commercial risks. Any capacity freed up at LTN would quickly be taken by other operators - perhaps that's a risk they don't want to take at their home base.

As a both a pilot and a passenger in recent years if I had to go to one of our London airports I would pick STN. LTN is a hole, always has been, always will be with a terrible road network/rail link, although I am told EasyBus is the way to do it from LTN these days in to town.

Gatwick is Gatwick. Good rail links but waaaaaay to busy to be a pleasant experience. SEN - never been so cannot comment.

STN's negative points - it has the most expensive rail link out of any of our London bases into London. As a passenger I have found the security staff in the terminal to be among the worst in the UK, rude an abrasive to non - english speaking elderly pax who have had the nerve to turn up at STN and not know the security search procedures inside out and not have their belts off and then dare not to understand English or what a loud TUT and rolling of the eyes means! AWFUL experience and the only security area to have my kids in tears when they were 5! It's funny but I never experienced any of that at STN staff search! Not enough seats in the terminal once you make it past the gestapo either, very difficult to get a seat until your gate is called air side.

STN could be a great airport, I've always thought that and kicking out BAA is the best thing that will ever happen to it! Too many BAA staff ( and I know I am generalising and stereotyping ) think they have a job for life and don't have to try. Gatwick used to be like this and although its far too busy for my liking the difference is obvious for all to see now. I know BAA staff don't like this kind of chat as I dared to engage some ex BAA staff at EDI recently about what a difference new attitude makes and they all seemed very stuffy and grumpy about this topic, probably because they now feel threatened by having to try! ( to be fair EDI BAA staff were never as bad as STN BAA staff experiences I have had, and all places have their angels and demons ). The STN staff now just need to take pride in making STN theirs instead of BAA's and it will once again shine, I have no doubt and look forward to seeing it grow and not be too dependent on Mr O'Leary, which is never good for any business, just check the tumbleweeds blowing around PIK these days if you need proof of that!

Now get the STN express priced more competitively please!!!!!!!

Prestwick's air traveller figures rise 14% in May | Evening Times
Ryanair having a busy summer. The key issue at PIK is they've gone partly seasonal on sun routes rather than year round city breaks. This may be an option for EZY at SEN. Ryanair play EDI and PIK off against each other but they're far enough apart and the markets are settled and slightly different. EDI more focussed on city breaks and PIK taking Weegies to the sun. There is an analogy in there for other airports.

PIK's rise is only due to the fact that RYR took it to the brink the year before in his usual political game with contract renewals and playing one airport of another.

PIK is also up for sale and not too many buyers waiting the wings with ££££££'s to invest in the place.

Good to see EZY supporting PIK today by circuit bashing today along with a fair amount of general and military non FR traffic - not a tumbleweed in sight. Anyway this is a STN thread - I do notice a change in attitude from the STN staff now that they are free from BAA lthough some way to go to be truly customer focused. Security can still be a nightmare at peak times so I look forward to the proposed new and expanded security area when it comes to fruition. Might even get some smiles to go with it.

LGS

Oh, so that' it then. It amazes me that people with your attitude to what is evidently an exciting prospect, actually exist! Why would EasyJet publicly announce this news if they had very little intention to actually go ahead with it?

May I actually point out that Gatwick and Edinburgh have seen/will see significant EasyJet expansion. There's no reason why Stansted with it's huge spare capacity and £50m development cannot do the same. The press will always stir things up a bit as per usual. The source just tries to challenge the news to grab readers attention and cause debate, seems quite successful to me!

As for the quote by EasyJet spokeswomen, that will simply be because their plans are commercially sensitive information and they are not yet willing to or nearly ready to give a list of how many new aircraft, routes or passengers they will add at this stage. That will be in "some months" when they roll out their summer 2014 schedules, where more specific details will be announced.

Now I will quote some of your say:

Why would they ever want to play off three of their own bases? Yes you could argue Gatwick has the highest yields for them and may want to increase the pressure for other airports to cut fees, yet there's only so much more capacity Gatwick and Luton can take.

Also, important to EasyJet's strategy, it serves a large area of the London market by serving a variety of London airports (precisely their reasoning for adding Southend to their route portfolio). They will certainly not try to squeeze into one as much as possible by playing off the other three, where they already have many "established routes"...

Talking of which, you also say:

Wow, what a contradiction!!!

I would also like to ask why receiving an attractive financial deal (and one which you except) would make expanding there or shifting some traffic from elsewhere an "unnecessary commercial risk"?

Er, would it? Who do you have in mind?

Wizzair... No. Eastern Europe is not EasyJet's key market at Luton.

Ryanair...Probably would not want to hurt their Stansted operation now. They are currently in similar talks with MAG themselves and will want to fight to keep their share of Stansted passengers.

Monarch... perhaps very minimally, on and off (and seasonally)

Thomson... A different market altogether (Package holidays, not LCC).

A new operator... I highly doubt it. Who would be so eager to invest in Luton to jump in and fill a gap of around 3 or 4 aircraft moving 30 miles away to a growing competitive rival?

Get over it LGS. Put up all the excuses you like, EasyJet will grow at Stansted in the coming years and even then you will probably still be dismissing the reality of it. Luton may suffer, it may not. Just wait and see though how Stansted grows in success before shrugging off any expansion announcements!

I don't see any extra for Stansted in Summer 14, EZY have all the Flybe slots to use at Gatwick next summer and they are a “use them or lose them”commodity. EZY don’t have a significant number of aircraft on order at the moment and both the Boeing and Airbus order books have a long backlog. In short they don’t have the aircraft to commit to Stansted.

IF the deal is a legally enforceable deal and the expansion does come then it will be after the aircraft that are allegedly to be ordered in Paris next week are delivered.

That's true and I too don't expect anything massive for next summer.

But I could perhaps see them moving just one aircraft from Luton to make a start. That amount would probably not effect Luton too badly, but could have great effects on Stansted.

Don't easyJet still have a number of options to convert and further purchase rights?

Sorry FR I do not understand the mathematical logic - one plane decrease from Lutons yearly pax figures is a greater percentage than one addition to Stansteds yearly figures.

Sorry but I don't understand yours! If Stansted increases from 8 to 9 aircraft, that is an increase of 12.5%.

One aircraft being pulled out of a 16 aircraft base (which I believe Luton is, or very close to), that's only a decrease of 6.25% and EasyJet passenger numbers would reflect these figures (if you are referring to total passenger numbers then that is totally irrelevant really).

With 15 other aircraft to play around with and the possibility of using more away-based aircraft, they could perhaps adjust the schedule to try and add the 3 or so flights this could potentially move away.

Plus that's not really the point. IF Stansted can offer a more attractive deal than Luton does, I don't think EasyJet will hesitate to move one aircraft over there, potentially more and probably not worry too much about 3 or 4 daily flights they may lose at Luton as a result!

Don't disagree with maths on percentage of aircraft, I chose percentage gain/loss on passenger figures over the yearly total that one aircraft would make to each airport. Just like politicians we can make figures look good or bad.

But the announcement said it would increase pax numbers from 2.8 mppa to 6 mppa over the next 5 years. I doubt this will be done exclusively with based aircraft - more "W" patterns or STN being a destination rather than originator. If one aircraft = approx 260,000 pax per year then an increase of 3.2 mppa is 12 extra aircraft (based on A319) or 9 A320's....... I would love STN to be a 20 or 17 a/c base by 2018 but I would be massively surprised if it is.

I would also love a big Airbus order to be announced at Paris next week....interesting times!

A4

I see, but as I say, it's irrelevant to EasyJet really what impact moving one aircraft from Luton to Stansted would make on the total passenger numbers for each of those airports.

If you think like that then maybe if Luton's total traffic took a bit of a tumbling (whilst EasyJet are still maintaining their capacity through Stansted), that could be good for EasyJet. It may become an incentive for the owners of Luton to offer a better deal to reverse decline.

To reiterate the point I was making, in case it wasn't clear (and I apologise if it wasn't)... Moving one aircraft from Luton may only result in a few frequency reductions, possibly making load factors increase as the demand stays the same or losing very few passengers in the worst case. Yet at Stansted, it could be used to offer new destinations and ultimately cater for new passengers (as well as putting back some of what they've removed in the last 2-3 years). Therefore, for EasyJet, it "would probably not effect Luton too badly, but could have great effects on Stansted."

So would I, but I think you could realistically get say 12 or 13 by then, about the 2011 levels.

easyJet's agreement with MAG
 

Interestingly, this mega announcement has only come from one side of the deal - MAG. There is no mention of it on the EZY website, just on MAG.

That clearly indicates who was driving the deal, and it isn't EZY. I suspect MAG wanted a 'big' announcement, and EZY took the opportunity of fixing costs in case they have a change of heart over STN some time in the next 5 years.

Perhaps MAG are beginning to realize how seriously they have overpaid for Stansted.

Predictable!
 

Oh dear :E

There was an easyjet spokesmen on local TV talking about the deal.

With easyjet moving 3 aircraft from Stansted to Southend by moving 3 aircraft back into Stansted they will be where they were a couple of years ago.

Given time I can't see any reason why Stansted could not become another Gatwick in terms of passenger figures and airline diversity.

I think LGS6753 might not be far from the truth. I was speaking with people from the Manchester Area this week, they were not that happy with the deal because MAG have apparently made it clear that their focus, and money, is on STN at the moment.

Easyjet have made it clear that Gatwick is their preferred airport in the South East. the best thing about the deal from the Stansted point of view is that it means there will not be the total withdrawal of Easyjet that was feared after the flybe Gatwick slot deal

Quote:

---

---

STN Ramp Rat; reading your post and re the above, my understanding is that there will be no decision on future fleet until the end of the summer at least. That said new units are joining the fleet at the moment.

This summer EZY will have Titan operate a 757 ex LGW for the peak summer months, with one cabin crew member from easyJet.

My money is on a move away from traditional low cost airline thinking, i.e. by ordering a second type. The C Series most notably.

Why?

• Smaller aircraft
• Lower fuel burn
• Key weapon for competing on thinner routes operated by regional carriers, eg Flybe
• A big order with Bombardier could secure very strong pricing
• Lead time on airbus

easyJet management are watching with great interest the orders placed by Tui for 737 Max, FR large order about to be confirmed by shareholders, Norweigan orders also. This all leads to show the sheer scale of plans for LOCO airlines in Europe in the coming years.

Sorry if off topic.

In terms of demand for aircraft, an open skies agreement is in place now for Israel and this will be key point of interest for easyJet, so I would be expecting additional routes....!

EI-BUD

And a "Mega announcement" it seems indeed with the level of discussion it's caused. There's nothing really from EasyJet at the moment because as we've already discussed, they haven't committed themselves to any specific expansion plans yet, such as new routes, aircraft and frequencies. Come to a time when they do, EasyJet will have plenty to say!

I can't recall anytime really when EasyJet have publicised stuff like this about new deals etc. only when something it confirmed such as when new routes appear or passenger milestones are hit etc. do they tend to put it on their PLC media page.

It has nothing to do with change of heart either, they haven't just gone off or got bored of Stansted. BAA ran the place horrifically and halted the airports ability to compete. A new owner is being successful in rebuilding the bridges that they destroyed, or let crumble away. If MAG and Stansted can offer EasyJet a fresh start, a better deal and offer an airport now seeing new investment (which EasyJet supports) and added value to it (unlike Luton may I emphasise), then they will take the opportunity to benefit from that.

Well of course people from Manchester are bound to think that! They of course fear that MAG is losing focus from Manchester due to the whole idea of Stansted joining their portfolio of airports. Plus, the positive effects that EasyJet expanding at Stansted doesn't concern or effect the Manchester area! Ask people in London and East of England, where the market lies, and I'm sure the vast majority will be much happier!

Yes, EasyJet do have a preference in Gatwick, but after they've utilised Flybe's slots, when will the next opportunity for major expansion be? It could be years! EasyJet seems to be one step ahead of the game it would seem, opening up opportunities for expansion in the London market when Gatwick can no longer give it to them.

Stansted will undoubtedly see EasyJet expansion. Ok, there may not be that much in the way of next year, but I think post 2015 is when you'll start to see the more rapid increases once Gatwick cannot take any more significant expansion.

EasyJet will not just stop growing when they cannot add to Gatwick. Lets face it, very few if any of the additional aircraft they will eventually add to their fleet could be added to either Gatwick or Luton due to lack of capacity (and space for overnighting aircraft). They will have little choice but to turn to Stansted for most of their future growth in the London market. That's the logic behind the deal and they will therefore have to utilise it!

Kimmo Holopainen to join MAG in the next few months he has worked at easyjet
Where he had responsibilities for commercial contracts and Airport negotiations
I wonder if this is linked to the easyjet / MAG deal at Stansted.

Personally I think it's a meaninglessness deal no different to what was negotiated at MAN last year and subsequently at lgw and edi.

The Saffron Walden gazette fell for it hook line and sinker. .... as did other dumb headline writers.

"EasyJet to double traffic

Er no. If ezy feel like coming back they can at a cheap rate, it doesnt mean they will of course far from it.

Its pure spin and hot air im afraid.

Last EZY alicante flight from stansted today all future flights go from southend

They're probably saturating Gatwick about now, I'm not sure there's a load of new opportunities for major growth to be found now. They've stolen much of BA's point to point traffic and built an impressive base much larger than Stansted and Luton combined. I'm not sure there's a whole lot more major growth to be had there, especially if Stelios has any say in the matter.