I said that MAN needs more decent LH routes. Having looked at the posts since, I am mindful that there is a good reason for MAN not getting them, and it is two fold.

First once is demographic. Sadly Manchester cannot compete, certainly on the bus & 1st market, as the City of Manchester is not regarded as one of the worlds great financial hubs. To the sort of people that fly from LHR in business / First Class, time is literaly money, and as they are based in "the square mile" they aren't going to travel 200 miles North to catch a plane. This just cannot be helped really, unless MAN make further cuts to landing fees that the airlines pass onto the PAX, not very likely though on both counts!

However, there is a long haul market there, it just needs finding. Sadly, whenever you look at a TV about LH flying it always ex LHR, even the "airport" programme is based there. Perhaps MAN should be doing a little more active marketing, certainly more than letting the beeb film a travel show there, total exposure for MAN, 7 minutes per 30 min show, not enough! As I said earlier, within MAN all you hear is how good the place is, and what it can offer. I never hear it away from MAN though. Go 20 mile south and no-one knows the destinations served. Manchester need to make a more public face of themselves, that will then make customers realise that there is a choice north of Watford. We all work in a customer led market, if the customer wants to fly to Sydney direct from MAN, and enough of them say so, then some airline will put the route on. The same goes for anywhere in the world really.

What we have here is a great regional airport, that has suffered from under investment for a number of years, but that is now being put right slowly, and eventually will become good. If they attracted more business, then they would have more money for infrastructure, and so the cycle continues. Manchester never, ever will be a major threat to LHR, but it can carve out it's own niche and become the airport of choice for all, away from LHR, even beating LGW, now that would work!

MAN may have a good route network, and good ground access (M56, train, bus and maybe Metrolink one day if common sense prevails) but the airport process bit itself is very hard to use (getting the right terminal, finding your car park and a space in it, navigating the endless level changes, corners, confusing signage/retail messages, broken travelators, lengthy baggage waits, over-obvious Immigration and Customs, congested arrivals, broken/dirty toilets, expensive coffee served at dirty tables etc etc).

Other airports e.g. LPL, EMA, Finningley etc. have rapidly increasing networks and are a joy to use, being simple, level and easy.

Airports today are like the car industry in the 70s and 80s: MAN is the British Leyland of airports, whereas LPL, EMA etc are the Japanese/Malaysian manufacturers. Complacency/complication/unreliability/fat cattery versus efficiency/simplicity/customer focus etc.

Perhaps EMA should have bought MAN and not the other way around. Oh how I feel sorry for the EMA staff who got lumbered with the dead hand of Manchester Airport Group.

Perhaps if you had made it clear that your fare was MAN-CDG-AFR or MAN-FRA-HKG ..........:rolleyes:

Comparing MAN LH flights with LHR LH flights is one thing but not when you pick a route that has no comparison.

How does LHR-CDG-AFR compare?

Try MAN-BOS or MAN-ORD compared to LHR-BOS or LHR-ORD.:bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored:

where is afr

Air France via Charles de Gaulle

AFR = Afore, a place in Papua New Guinea in the South West Pacific

Ax

Back to "emergency" arrivals and departures spread sheet with limited info again on the web site this morning! That is, if you try direct access for all flight info.:rolleyes: If you faff about and put a flight number in, get that info, then you can access the full info.

What a way to run a railway!

OK at 09.20, just a little slow to load

G-I-B

Arrivals/Departures Page
 

Really don't see what diffference it makes. This web page is there mainly for people who are meeting relatives etc to check the arrival time of in coming flights. This format is just a little less attractive on the eye. It still updates every 5 minutes or so and still gives exactly the same info as the real time version does. In fact in many ways it's easier, especially for people that don't use the site much and therefore aren't aware of which airline uses which terminal. The flight numbers are displayed clearly by destination in alphabetical order. Idiot proof! Sure, it's not as high tech as the normal version but who cares! Does the job doesn't it!

NO. that sheet is second rate, mickey mouse rubbish. It's symptomatic of the whole airport and it's culture.Time MAN raised it's game, in may areas. I never thought I'd say this a few years back, but, LHR wipes it bottom all over MAN now as a place to fly from in respect of organisation, facilities etc. Sad really.

More Air Berlin cut-backs
 

From the end of October the 6 x week direct Hamburg is chopped to 3, including the very popular well supported Fri / Mon stag week-end flights.
Decent connections via STN to other destinations also cut back.
AB just don't seem committed to Manchester, at least HLX offer a more consistant timetable year round.

Bit chilly in Hamburg in the winter

G-I-B

Antwerp
 

New VLM route from the 30th of October Antwerp - Manchester twice daily :ok:

Virgin going from 10 back to 7 flights a week wef now.:eek:

The Arrivals / Departure board problems may only be a mnor inconvenience but there are so many minor problems at Manchester that could easily be put right. These can be the difference between people thinking 'great airport' or thinking 'never again'.

The following small things could make a difference to passengers ratings of the airport.

-24 hour information desks - during the summer flights land 24 hours a day so why do the information desks close at 23.00?? Nightime is when passengers face the most difficulties with onward travel.

-A complete review of signage for both car drivers and pedestrians. Remove unnecessary signs. There is still a sign on Outwood La saying 'New roundabout ahead' for the roundabout by Olympic House, that has been their at least 20 years. Replacing the Purple/pink colour scheme is a must!

-Sort out T1 arrivals, are the refurbishments finished?? werent they supposed to be tarting up the arrivals hall, or have they run out of money? Are the tacky fruit machines that used to be in the arcade now a permanent fixture? Are the temporary railings outside to stop trolleys running into the windows now permanent? Its a mess! Do the management not see this?

On a more positive note Jet2 have increased Ibiza to daily next summer

To be fair to the people on the ground (Customer Service Director downwards) they recognise all the problems you list and would probably agree with most of them.

The problem is the usual ivory tower one. The blue sky thinkers at the top won't release the money or people to make it happen.

Your comment seems to directly against what they have proudly announced today:
From e-tid, fair use excerpt:
"Air Berlin said its August passenger numbers grew by 12.9% year-on-year to 1,607,834, but load factor declined from 86% to 84.5%. In Germany, the airports seeing the strongest growth were Frankfurt (+35.7%) and Nuremberg (+25.4%), while its best international performers were Stansted (+90.9%), Zurich (+53.1%) and Manchester (+47.7%)."

Well, I think that makes my point very well Stoneybridge.
Despite Manchester being one of their best international performers, they intend to CUT direct flights (again) from MAN & reduce the number of available STN connection flights. Does that make sense?:ugh:

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

They have declared MAN as one of their most profitable international points, and intend to consolidate their position by ditching what must be, from their perspective, services where there isn't the revenue.

This doesn't close the door on future expansion.

Seems like sound business ethics to me !

How ironic that in the lead up to the cessation their 744's appearing at MAN, SQ have sent one in a few additional times in the last couple of weeks as a 772ER is in for maintenance.

A year ago Flybe announced Manchester would be 'a new low cost base', and put on sale flights to Exeter and Belfast. In a press release it stated that it would be launching six new routes over two years from Manchester. Since then the only new route has been Norwich, and there seems to be no new routes this winter. Does that mean they intend to start five new routes next summer? If so has anyone any ideas what they will be??

Manchester Terminal 2.
 

Having flown through Manchester numerous times over the last 25 years I have just experienced the worst trip ever. Monday 4th September, check in at T2 for the Excel airways flight to Dalaman at 10.30am. Gates 212-216 in use. Downstairs to mingle with arrivals passengers whilst queuing for 1hr 30mins to check in. Clear check in, straight to gate 30 and straight on to bus to plane, B747-300, Air Atlanta. No time to go to duty free. Arrive Dalaman and out of airport with no hassle in 40 mins.
Monday 11th September, check in for return flight. No hassle, bags weighed and security checks done within 40 mins. Arrive Manchester and join long queue to clear passport control in T2. Our queue of 300 to 400 passengers inter mingles with another queue from another aircraft. Terminal air con is off so the place is like a steam room with very irate passengers. Clear passport control in just over an hour. Now I know times have changed and security checks are very necessary, but 3 people checking passports for 500+ passengers at 10pm? I dread to think what it would have been like if it had been a busy time of day. And Manchester wants more flights!! :*

Yup same in T1. queued 1 hour to check in & then 1 hour for security last week. Meaning out of security straight on board aircraft. So no time whatsoever to use airside shops. That being the case, why don't they just close them & make the security area bigger & better ?.
In other words make an efficient hassle free airport, rather than a shopping centre you can't use. I am also cancelling my contract to use the executive lounges as it is no longer possible to use them due time constraints. Don't say arrive earlier, because I arrived before the check in even opened.
The return from Hamburg = 10 minute check in queue & ZERO minute queue for security.

I've also posted this comment in SLF, having had the misfortune to transit Manchester today;

More stupidity from security at Manchester today.

The bars in Terminal 1 are short of draught beer supplies, infact the Voyageurs bar only has draught Grolsch available........the reason:

Security are refusing them deliveries of barrels, until they have all been tasted.....I kid ye not!!!!

The loonatics really have taken over the asylum!!!:mad:

hmmmm, I see what you mean,as the barrells are not going on board any aircraft, the point is ???
Liverpool looks like being a better less hassle bet these days.
I expect Aug/sept pax numbers will be down. I for one won't be spending 2-3 hours messing around for a 45 minute flight.

[QUOTE=IB4138;2845186]
Security are refusing them deliveries of barrels, until they have all been tasted.....I kid ye not!!!!
QUOTE]

I wonder if they need a volunteer:}

Most of the draught beer at MAN tastes like it ought to be blown up anyway. When I'm in the bar (only on payday obviously, at those prices) I always drink bottled beer.

Most of the "cellars" are so far from the pumps that the beer has gone off long before it hits the glass.

Manchester airport pax numbers fall by over 60,000
 

Passenger numbers at Manchester Airport fell by over 60,000 last month after, the terror alert caused a string of flights to be cancelled.

The airport handled 62,000 fewer passengers in August compared with the same month last year - down from 2.53m to 2.47m, a drop of 2.4 percent. Charter traffic slid 6 percent, which was anticipated.

The overall decline was put down to slower-than-forecast growth on domestic and some scheduled international routes. It followed the cancellation of 26 flights during the terrorist alert in the second week of the month, mostly on routes to London but also on services to European cities such as Amsterdam, Luxembourg and Hanover.

A spokesman said the underlying outlook still showed growth of around 1.5 percent for the year as a whole, albeit slightly down on initial forecasts.

How does he do it?
 

:ugh:
Oh dear, down on pax, down on spending,down on maintenence,down on shop revenue,down on spending on infrastructure. Up on queues, up on litter, up on smelly toilets, up on airlines shelving services!! One wonders why?
Will Chief Exec suffer?---- Naw! Pity that, for it's time for a change.
How about the Local Councils putting money INTO the infrastruture of the Airport, instead of ALWAYS taking a cut? :D :ok:
One good thing though, beautiful Fauna and Flora growing on the ramp up to T1. It would soon be a butterfly hunters paradise if winter weren't around the corner. Third rate or what?
:eek:

SLF'ing into Manch tonight. Can't wait !
The only airport that puts the bags into a holding pattern for half an hour before vectoring them to the carousels.

And hopefully without politicising matters too much: since when could a Council (or group thereof) run anything well???

What is happening at Manchester. Flew in from Eire about a week ago.

Flew out from Terminal 3, returned and parked on remote stand 70 something !! Parked next to a Kuwaiti A300 near as damn it in the long stay car park of TERMINAL 2 !! Actually remarked to the crew that if We parked a further 50 yards I could get in the car park !

Following a lengthy bus ride around the apron back to Terminal 3 We then arrived at the baggage carousel in Terminal 3 !!.

Flight from Southern Ireland 50 mins (excellent BMI Baby) , wait for baggage 1 Hr 10 diabolical ( ground services).

Can't wait for my next scheduled flight from Manchester in 4 weeks !!!!!!

Rufus I think a little letter to MAPLC and one to bmibaby maybe in order. One to the airport to complain about the lack of actual stands, the other to complain about baggage handling.

At last - after a very long wait - some great news for MAN (which appears to have escaped this thread so far). THOMSONFLY has announced that it will base two additional Boeing 737's at MAN from Summer 2007 as part of a programme which will massively enhance the company's scheduled presence at the airport. Eleven new scheduled routes have been announced for Summer including SZG which actually launches this Winter alongside RAK. The other ten destinations are VCE (dropped by Jet2 and BA for Summer 06 leaving no competing service), NAP (dropped by Monarch in 06), DBV (dropped by GB Airways), FAO, TFS, LPA, ACE, CFU, PFO and MIN. Thomsonfly already offer scheduled services ex-MAN to other mainstream Spanish gateways. The company expects to be MAN's largest carrier following the introduction of the new services. Key details of this news are reported in the new edition of 'Travel Trade Gazette'.

On a rather smaller scale, new carrier FlyGibraltar intends to serve GIB-MAN amongst a number of new routes ex-GIB using B733's believed to be sourced from Astraeus.

As an ex baggage handler at MAN i can safley say i was worked to the bone for 5 pound crap an hr....The graft is hard,,,and the lads do it....but as long as ground service companys are so tight, in not apointing people who care, passengers will always suffer in picking up their luggage at the carosel, i loved my job but was made to feel so undermined it was untrue!!

Rapid I can believe it, but if enough passengers complain it might get more staff hired. Sure as heck the hndling agencies aren't going to do it off their own back. If people don't complain, nothing is ever going to get done.

Wouldn't bother wasting a stamp writing to MA Plc. Still waiting for a reply to a letter I sent in December 2004 !:eek: after a particularly very bad MAN experience:sad:
It is very sad to see the infrastructure crumbling around the place. Poor reliability walkways/lifts, inadequate security areas, inadequate baggage system, inadequate signage, inadequate queue management.
Used to be my favourite airport, now only Heathrow & Newquay rank as worse in my book.

It is very sad to hear of people's poor pay and conditions. The simple economics are:

Once upon a time when baggage and catering handling was in-house, due to the strength of the unions the staff had good terms and conditions. Perhaps due to the unions over-exerting their power, the company set out to break them and introduced multiple ground handlers.

While these new companies claimed to compete on quality, the airlines were mainly interested in price, so the handlers competed on price alone, and the best ways to cut costs so they can cut their prices are to reduce wages and to run old equipment.

With the EU Ground Handling Directive allowing unlimited handling companies on site, there are more and more sub-contractors with older and older equipment and lower and lower wages. Result: clutter on the apron and under-staffing.

At the same time, the local jobs market has picked up (Wythenshawe call centres, Trafford Centre etc) so there isn't the pool of unemployed people any more for employers to fish in.

Multiply this scenario across car parking, retail, cleaners, check-in staff, catering loading, security etc. and you get employee dissatisfaction, short-staffing, regular staff turnover (losing skills and experience), which leads to poor customer service and now a reduction in passenger numbers for the first time ever in MA's history barring the period after the Gulf War in 1991, and the year or so after 9/11.

The only organisation that makes any money out of Manchester Airport is MA PLC. Any profit the service providers make out of being at the airport goes back to MA in concession fees, extortionate rents, expensive staff car park permits etc.

MA is now talking about limiting the number of ground handlers at MA by running a license system. So now the handlers will have to pay even more to operate there.

My view is that MA should reduce its charges/rents/concession fees to allow service providers to pay a decent wage to retain their staff at least for the full season, and to treat them well. MA would still make a profit. Customer service would improve and passenger numbers might go up again. I know people have mooted this in the past to MA management but of course they know best, so they ignored the idea. Do they still know best? Well, with leftie pie-eating councillors at the top of the tree, the GCX and chairman are laughing because no-one above them is capable of understanding how bad they really are at running a competitive business in a global marketplace in the 21st century.

Published today on bmi website


'bmi regional, Manchester's most punctual scheduled airline will be increasing the number of flights to its Scottish destinations this autumn.

From 29 October, bmi regional services between Manchester and Aberdeen will be boosted from four to six flights daily, introducing a new early morning and afternoon flight. Meanwhile, services between Manchester and Glasgow will be increased from four to five every weekday with the introduction of a new lunchtime flight.

The service improvements are in direct response to an increasing demand in business related traffic. The announcement today also follows the July announcement that bmi regional services between Manchester and Edinburgh were being increased from five to six per day, from September.

bmi regional managing director, Stewart Adams said:
“Our regional network continues to go from strength to strength. Not only are we the most punctual scheduled airline flying from Manchester, we are also the only regional airline to offer an all jet aircraft service. None of our competitors can match us in terms of flight frequencies to Scotland and the level of in-flight service offered.”

All bmi regional flights offer the speed and comfort of an all-jet aircraft service, a separate business and economy class seating on board and continues to offer complimentary in-flight refreshments. The airline is also renowned for excellent in-flight service and frequent flyer benefits. Convenient schedules across domestic and international routes from key regional airports allow connections to the wider bmi network and onwards across the globe with Star Alliance partners.

Business lounge facilities and range of check-in options on the ground, including online or self-service check-in ensure a speedy transition through the airport.

Speed on the ground is matched by speed in the air. bmi regional is also recognised as the best airline for punctuality in Manchester and in the UK overall according to published CAA statistics'

I totally understand where you coming from about the remote stand thing, last month I had a flight where we arrived 20mins early at 2330, however we had to wait till 0015 for the first bus to arrive to take our very P:mad: :mad: :mad: d off pax to the terminal. it didnt help that the coaches also missed us out and seen to the Air Class 737 that pulled up beside us, 40 mins after us! we almost had a riot on our hands it was a complete joke! we had many pax saying to us "your airline has just gone down in our estimations, we wont b coming back" to which i tried my best to politly point out my airline dont operate the coaches it is MAN airport.
So as much as I understand what ur saying i dont agree with your comments to the crew about how close you are to the car park, trust me we are aware of it!!! our staff car park is just on the other side of the fence aswell :}
It does irritate the hell out of me when we are shoved on remote stands when the whole bloody terminal is free; if MAN airport are going to put us on remote stands in Wythenshawe then can we at least have a bus? and within the first few minutes of arriving would be nice