Hmm, my understanding was that Flightline didn't lose it to the Saab 2000, Flightline lost the contract full stop.

Richard, the whining never went away, it seems to reappear every time this contract comes up for grabs:ooh:

UKpaxman

Correct 100% Flightline lost contract, only themselves to blame. I didn't se my post as a whine. Just agreeing with your comments on the history of the matter and passing on the info that the traveling oil workers have been given.

Apologies for thread drift, but does anyone know what Flightline did so wrong to have the contract taken away?

RT

Probably not the place to expose the reasons. Needless to say that Flightline are aware of them and hopefully, down at the mouth of the Thames, they are being addressed. Also worth observing is that if they were of such a serious nature, then they would not be continuing to operate until Feb 7.

What I will say is the IAC indicated that they were happy with the Aberdeen part of the operation. The 146 giving the "best service they've ever had". That being the case, it is a bit hard to understand - I know !

WB

Ta WB. I always thought operationally at ABZ anyway FLT had done a reliable job.

However I am sure Eastern will do likewise, when they start the interim contract.

When the two 2000s arrive to augment that fleet, taking into account the LCYAMS route they are to commence, will they have enough of the type to fulfill their commitments, bearing in mind three of them will being engaged on up to four round trips M-F for the IAC? Also taking into account ABZOSL which they recently announced as well.

RT

I wish them the very best. SCS is a challenging airfield, but I'm sure that with the right training they will do well.

It's a small world aviation. Who knows, in the current economic climate there could be the odd Flightline crew heading to "090" up the W5D. Not sure about those hats and yellow ties !!! :)

WB

WB - whining comment wasn't aimed at you - there's a number of posters who just seem to think it's always the wrong decision before the operation has even started. There was the same comments before the 146's arrived (old unreliable aircraft, not suited for SCS, too expensive for route, blah, blah...)

No problem Mr Paxman
Cheers WB

Good news for Eastern.

I can't see why they'd need to move anything to ABZ except expand their handling facilities there. The Head Office & Operations Dept are ideally situated at HUY, it's cheap to keep them and the staff there.

Additionally, good news for pilots and crews who are looking for work, even if it's not directly onto the SAAB I understand T3 are looking for JS41 staff.

Where will the aircraft come from? Will this mean cuts to the Eastern scheduled service in order to actually have enough aircraft to fly SCS?

I don't think it as simple as Eastern expanding their existing handling agents staff. Flightline's current staff will be entitled to TUPE and I am sure their existing terms and conditions are pretty good, almost certainly better than Regional Handling, Eastern will possibly need to directly employ Flightline Staff, at least in the short term.

2 Saab 2000's due to arrive in December,either to HUY or ABD.

So, with a/c expected, anyone know when Eastern are due to commence this oil run ?

Looks like last flights by FLT 146s on Friday 6th Feb 2009 with EZE Saabs commencing from Monday 9th Feb 2009.

manchester
 

friend has told me eastern to withdraw flights from manchester can
anyone confirm this have tried to book online for december
but response is no flight available

Any news if/when EZE are going to announce the LCY AMS flights for sale?

It wasnt that long ago Eastern added a 4th daily to STN, and awarded a new handling contract at MAN

EDIT - Eastern website shows last flight 28th of this month

When Eastern originally operated Manchester - Stansted it was a very profitable route and had lots of supporters.

Unfortunately, when Air Berlin operated this route and offered fares at next to nothing the passenger thought that Eastern were taking the mick with prices. Obviously Air Berlin could not sustain the low fares as they soon pulled of the route.

Eastern then restarted the service but only got the really loyal supporters of the original service at the appropriate fares to justify a regular service 3 to 4 times a day. Sadly not enough people returned and therefore the service has ended. Well done LCC's

Eastern could be a bit premature with stopping the service Manchester-Stansted with AirAsia X due to commence service to Kuala Lumpur in March09 ?

What's the point of connecting onto a flight to Manchester that will cost as much as your flight from Asia????? That's nuts!

So with "just" 2 more Saab 2000s arriving and a need for at least 4 additional Saabs for the Shetland's contract AND the new AMS route, which routes will face a downgrade from the Saab 2000 to the Jetstream 41?

The current saab fleet is not used purely for schedule, one saab based in norwich and two in aberdeen that leaves three purely for charter work plus, the two joining. So I doubt any flights will be downgraded.

Flightline Crew
 

What is the general feeling, within Eastern, regards all Aberdeen Flightline employees becoming part of Eastern? This due to the "TUPE" regulations requiring them to continue operating on the Scatsta contract.

Do you know for definite that they will be automatically "TUPE'd" accross to Eastern?

Have a look at:

TUPE - a guide to the regulations

Quote below from above website:

Transfers not covered by the Regulations

The Regulations do not apply to the following:
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers by share take-over because, when a company’s shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business - the same company continues to be the employer;
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers of assets only (for example, the sale of equipment alone would not be covered, but the sale of a going concern including equipment would be covered);
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers of a contract to provide goods or services where this does not involve the transfer of a business or part of a business;
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers of undertakings situated outside the United Kingdom.

Looks like the third one down applies to Eastern's aquisition of the IAC contract.

Flightline - TUPE
 

I believe TUPE applies. I also understand that the management of both Airlines accept that it applies.

Most importantly perhaps, Bristows and the IAC who will ultimately will be meeting the costs involved, expect it to be applied.

StraightLevel

I believe the website you've linked to may be out of date.

The TUPE regulations were revised in 2006. As a result, TUPE now applies to contracts being re assigned, where as before the revision, as you stated, it wouldn't have applied.

The new regulations can be found here: http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf

Thanks for that mini-jumbo.

I assumed t'internet was the information super highway with all the relevant/uptodate info at your fingertips. I was wrong. Lesson learned.:O

Sorry if I have misled anyone.

I'll re-ask Wheeliebin's original question on his behalf below.

"What is the general feeling, within Eastern, regards all Aberdeen Flightline employees becoming part of Eastern? This due to the "TUPE" regulations requiring them to continue operating on the Scatsta contract."

TUPE'd
 

I think you will find that TUPE in Aviation is more restricted than in general industry.

As usual with aviation any rights the workers have is secondary to the almighty dollar... :rolleyes:

Flightline employees will not have right of transfer to Eastern. :*

I think wheeliebin is right - the right of TUPE does exist and I understand that both airlines have accepted that employees will be TUPE'd across to Eastern along with the contract.

Meeb

In this case it will apply. Lawyers have given their assurance, and the customer is paying for the extra cost involved. In the fullness of time, this will prove to be the case. Therefore back to my original post, I was interested in the general feeling, within the two companies, on the forthcoming integration of crews.

This is all just speculation. So in the fullness in time all will be revealed. Eastern always need new cabin crew in ABZ i can see them being used, but flight crew, they are still employed by Flightline, Eastern are not taking on the flightlines assets ie its aircraft so why would crew come with the contract. One company loses business another gains it. Its in flightlines interest now to get other business and keeps its crews employed. Anyway the cabin crew are much more likely to be local than the majority of the flight crew. Not sure why you would want to refuse duties other than skatsta, would you like to go to sardinia or switzerland for the week, or an early stavangar and be back by half nine in the morning.. No I wont to sit around in a wet and windy airport crew room for hours waiting for a helicopter to arrive.

Flatbroke

I agree it's good news for Flightline management - no relocation or redundancy costs. Probably not too bad for Eastern either. The numbers taking the TUPE will be relatively high, I would guess, in the current climate and the fact that they all live in Aberdeen.

Flightline will probably have no need for any of the ABZ crew it makes sense to transfer those over. Some of the crews do not wish to move to a prop but some will be happy to remain in ABZ so there will be mixed feelings I guess.

Paul W

Most of the flight crew will be doing their best to make sure they only operate to SCS and do nothing else. Those who wish to remain in ABZ do so for the lifestyle and not necessarily the flying. The thought of being exposed to the rest of the Eastern network will hold little appeal since that will not give them the free weekends in addition to the civilised working hours that they enjoy.

A little bit of Scatsta experience on the flightdeck would not be a bad thing on a black, wet & windy morning in mid winter. I believe Eastern have asked if Flightline pilots can be released for training prior to Feb 7, which is rumoured to be approved.

on the saab different on the jetstream, you get most weekends off, so no change. Why be so negative..

I am not being negative but just telling you how it is. The majority of the Flightline crews in ABZ have been around the European racetrack and are more than happy to potter up and down to the Shetlands and have no desire to go to anywhere else. You can't blame them really when a late finish is getting back after 1800! This could change under Eastern but it is unlikely to be as hectic as the Eastern scheduled network.

Was that a Pig zooming past my front door??? :}

Mr G,

If there is money in for Flightline (crews from down Sth bought in for those released will be charged to IAC) believe me they will do it.

WB

You have to have the crews first and here lies the problem. A handful at the very most will be able to go early onto a Saab course but that will be at a push.

Your living in a dream world, you think Eastern dont have the crews to operate Skatsta on Feb 9th? The Fos are hardly doing any work at the moment because the company is so busy line training new direct entry captains and fos at the moment. Aside from that, Eastern aircraft have occasionally been into Skatsta before, and certainly have pilots that have been there before. Its Cat C for us so crews will be getting training for it anyway. Eastern have a few other oil contract routes, I dont remember pilots from the companies that Eastern successfully bid against, being tuped across, its not gonna happen this time. In time, certainly Eastern will offer an olive branch to one or two local captains, who, they know will stay because they want to be in Aberdeen, when they apply, but it wont be tupe. The cabin crew may well be offered postions on eastern ts and cs, like I said before Eastern always need cabin crew in Aberdeen.

Ive just changed shopping from my local tesco to asda, will they be tupe-ing over some staff, I dont think so.

Not sure who's in the dream world ? If you have the management of both companies in agreement that TUPE applies to Flightdeck, I would assume it's going to happen. Also, I think you'll find the vast majority of pilots are settled in ABZ.