BRS has gone through the many changes that CWL hasnt seen yet. The Terminal is in a bit of a mess at the moment, and yes the management dont seem to do things in the most simple or convenient of ways, but things are being done.
You wont see a new terminal arrive one morning on the runway and park up!

I think BRS has attracted the American market, and CWL has v strong Canadian links. BRS has a better domestic market (Easyjet were always going to perform better than Baby at CWL), CWL has a better holiday market.
I've read reports recently that state as much as 65% of Welsh travellers use eastern airport, bearing in mind that also includes North Wales (LPL, MAN etc)
If the airlines, and to an extent the airport itself, were committed enough then any airport can make realistic routes work.

So one airline pulls out and its a crap airport??
Eastern - BRU -this route has worked, and will work for other airlines. NCL is doing great.
Air Wales - MANAGEMENT
Excel - there's more to the 'low loads' excuse that they've given
MyTravel - Are looking into expanding again at CWL
Zoom - going from strength to strength
Aer Arann - As above

Again BRS and CWL attract different markets, CWL may not have a sparkling new terminal, BRS may not have a suitably long runway. Who Cares!

Caaardiff

I agree with much of what you say but am surprised that you think CWL has the bigger holiday market.

In 2005 BRS had over 1.3 million terminal charter pax whilst CWL had 819,000.
In July this year (latest figures available) BRS carried 177,000 charter pax and CWL 136,000.

Furthermore, at the height of summer 2006 BRS had around 120 weekly charter flights and 38 charter destinations. The CWL figures were around 100 and 35 (I have included the Zoom flights/destinations here as well as the Thomsonfly which seems a mixed charter/schedule operation).

In winter the difference is more marked. Last winter at the busiest time BRS had 51 weekly charter flights (including 16 weekly ski flights to 12 separate ski destinations) whilst CWL had 12, including 3 ski destinations.

Having said this, there is evidence that CWL is closing the gap on BRS in the summer charter market (in 2005 CWL had around 75 weekly charter flights at the busiest time compared to 100 this year), and Thomsonfly’s initiative will mean more charter flights this winter than last.

It may be that you are including the leakage figures from CWL’s catchment in your calculation (put at ‘close to 50%’ in the airport’s draft master plan, but of course this is all travellers, not just holiday travellers).

I sense we both agree that both airports are first class facilities for their immediate catchments but that some cross-mixing of travellers from both sides of the Severn is inevitable and, to some extent desirable, in that it encourages commercial competition.

oooh ooooh me me I care :} Crikey people and I thought I was king of the ranters, looks as if i'll have to share my throne with 'Standard Noise'.
If you ask me the only thing that shows which airport is operating better must surely be pax figs,these in turn lead back to management.
If CWL had the same management as BRS then we might be looking at it all being the other way round, fact is BRS has superior management and marketing teams not just over CWL but other airports, both in infrastructure, advertising and attracting airlines/routes etc.... This leads on to more airlines signing deals with the airport who puts the best pitch to them, for example CO nearly went to CWL from what i've been told, but BRS put a better business case across, FCA long haul nearly went to STN but ended up in BRS, theres a definate reason why folks and I believe it down to the guys who sit up stairs in the old terminal making deals, well done Tony Halwood/Shaun Brown and Co I say.
Heres a little sum that shows what i mean,
More airlines + more routes = more pax + more return pax = more money = more facilities = more success = higher pax figs than CWL :} :} :}

It would be a shame to have yet another slanging match between the two airports. Bristol are currently winning hands down on destinations and prices and it would quite frankly take such a radical change at Cardiff to catch up. ( but just for ATCO1987s sake it wasn't that long ago that Cardiff was ahead in the airport stakes so things can and do change)
I do though hope we can improve our destinations and service.
The Terminal should be knocked down and rebuilt but with all the companies money being invested in Luton thats as likely to happen as Air Wales starting back up.
Standard Noise why oh why should you be caught up in the debacle that hit the front pages in the local news, that is just so flipping typical :8 , sorry you had problems we didn't see you though pop up and see us for a coffee, in our brand new kitchen, rest room, briefing room, updated VCR and Radar room :E I could have made you a lovely Café Latte and it wouldn't have cost you a thing.

Guys its not a competition! So what if BRS gets more PAX every year. In all honesty how much does it matter to anyone of us? Being Welsh I would love to see CWL grow faster than what it does but i'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it! Or shall I start a LGW v BRS thread, we have more pax than BRS oh wait.... I HAVE A LIFE! :p

Ha ha, damn i love this forum when it gets to the BRS v CWL thing, quick over to the CWL thread to do it on there too (not), I love it how it's gone from Standards problem journey with TOM, to which airport is better - HA HA HA HA BRILLIANT! Were all legends! BRS is better though :}

CWL vs Brs
 

Well that stirred up a hornets nest, just it was getting a bit quiet on this thread and there was nothing on the tele !!! :ok:

Any rumuors on the easyjet contract yet? Does anyone know weather servisair have got it? or has it gone to another handling agent. We still dont know and it expires end of this month, on another note its funny how soon as routes and rumuors die down on this forum it turns to BRS vs CWL. But you never here a word about EXT.....hehe....Any news on any new routes in the pipeline?

Well flower, I would have come up for a wee natter, but I was waiting for some free nosh since we were being delayed by about four and a half hours. Still, shouldn't expect too much from the Krauts, eh? Had to make do with several Nigerian lagers and a pot of Ladyboy nuts at that thing CWL management call a 'bar'. Anyhoo, if I'd have come upstairs, you wouldn't have got any peace. And I was waiting for a Thommo/Servisair type rep to show their ugly mugs in the deps lounge (yes, I called switchboard twice to request one be sent up), but they didn't appear, just like my luggage! Well, at least it was consistent.

Cardiff or Bristol, hmmm would rather see Brs get all the glory now that I live here!! ;)

As for my Toronto remark.....read it again guys! You can reach Canada easily from BRS, certainly in a 75', and probably a 76'.
BUT, my point was to get the range you would have to reduce the seating to a typical scheduled/higher cost seating config', which isnt going to compete with Zoom's low cost/ high capacity config'.

Now, where's my pot noodle........:) !!

All the best.

Getting off the CWL bashing now, does anybody know how the BA - TFS loads are looking? Brave step by BA to launch that route from BRS when sooo many charters do it (uk and spanish) so hope it holds it's own, can't see it massively affecting the likes of MYT/TOM/FCA though, great to see a larger BA jet in BRS instead of the same old Embrarers. :ok:

Just been haveing a play on the FC website, seems now the SFB/POP in winter ops via MAN for refuel only, in summer the site is now saying SFB/POP double drop with MAN, VRA now double drop with EMA, As far as i'm told by travel agent friends the BRS-SFB/POP are selling well, apparently 20-25% sold for next summer with mass booking period still to come in Jan/Feb, wonder if this is more to do with extra capacity needed from MAN in the summer, Not sure what the split between the airports is, however I imagine that BRS will have the Lions share as they've been on sale longer, we'll see i guess, VRA makes good business sense though, not selling as well as the SFB/POP, shame the EMA-CUN can't be shared with BRS too.
However does bring back the question of Direct or not? back in to the equation, It's really dependent on where the aircraft is to be cleaned BRS or MAN :confused: Hopefully it will be cleaned in BRS therefore meaning minimum distruption to BRS pax :confused:

They should sell seats out of Bangor as well..............:E

Still better than the mind numbing trip to LGW :ugh:

Developments at CWL
 

Caaardiff............ Having worked for Servisair at CWL many moons ago I would be very interested to see any pictures or information on the developments going on at CWL. I don't get down there very often and miss the place a lot. Are there any pictures on the web or could you PM me with any??Tornadohotas

The work is huge......

Last time I was there, someone was on a ladder removing the cobwebs...:p

fog at bristol
 

Flew back to Bristol yesterday on board a First Choice A321 from Crete, fog at the airport,the wind blowing from the East and no cat3 on runway 09 meant we coudn't land.The pilots decided to hold for half an hour in the hope that things would improve,they didn't so we diverted to Cardiff.After refuelling and an hour or so on the ground we took off again for Bristol.When we got back to Bristol it was still really foggy but thanks to the skill of the crew we landed,about three hours after we first had approached Bristol. I know that dosen't seem much of a delay but we were picked up from our hotel at 12.30am gmt,took off from crete at 3.30am gmt so to put it mildly we were already cream crackered when we first arrived at Bristol.

In fairness the fog has a tendency (not always of course) of rolling in in the early hours 2-6am, the EZY's are all in by then, however the charters FCA/TOM/MYT operate night flights which means that usually their schedule gets more affected by adverse weather at night than the other operators.
I imagine your situation seemed worse because you had been up all day and half the night for your flight, if it was a cheeky little day flight it prob wouldnt of seemed too bad, ahh well be thankful you weren't taken off, made to wait and then coached back, good decision making by FCA

anoraknophobia

Maybe they should try the WW II Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation (FIDO). :eek:

A typical FIDO installation comprised of piplines running either side and each end of the runway into which petrol was injected under pressure. The petrol was ejected through small holes in the pipe and then ignited by burners fitted at certain intervals along its length. The resultant fire produced heat so intense that it literally burned the fog away from the vicinity of the runway.Fifteen airfields in England were equipped with FIDO in WW II.

As you point out, the topography on the approach to 09 seems to rule out a Cat III system for that runway which the airport says is the operational runway for around one third of each year.

It is ironic because foggy/misty conditions often seem to appear when the wind is out of the eastern quadrant. The last few days with easterlies have been murky and misty, particularly in the mornings, and this morning is especially so where I live (around eight miles as-the-crow-flies to the east of airport), although I believe not bad enough to prevent aircraft landing at BRS, thank goodness. The westerlies are often stronger winds that seem to disperse any murk.

I'm not saying this is always the case of course. I'm not a meteorologist and my observations are merely based on living in the area for the last sixty years.

I fear this problem will be with us for many years and is one of the disadvantages of the site with which BRS will have to continue to contend.

Watabech,yes fair point could have been alot worse,in fact the 220 passengers on board all clapped when the plane finally touched down at Bristol.Merchant venturer,I was aware of the fido system but don't suppose Health and Saftey would go a bundle on such a system.Now Iv'e done a bit of research on Cat3 systems, I realise the problems involved ,bearing in mind the topography.Didn't know the outer marker for such systems was five miles away from the threshold.Even if planning permission was granted for the towers needed to support the transmitter equipment the cost would probably outway the number of times it would be needed. Anyway now Iv'e had a few good nights sleep I don't feel so narky.
On the subject of the new First Choice route to the Dominican Republic,flew with First Choice to DR from Gatwick earlier in the year from Gatwick.Even if there is refuelling stop given the choice I would have flown locally,anthing to avoid the curse of the M4/M25.

Should keep the hares out of the way Merchant Venturer:}

Meanwhile.....

BRISTOL INTERNATIONAL ANNOUNCES DIRECT FLIGHTS TO GIBRALTAR


Bristol International has today announced that direct flights to Gibraltar will commence from April 2007 with low fares airline Fly Gibraltar. Bristol becomes one of just four key regional airports to gain the new direct route, opening up links between the Rock, Southern Spain and the South West.

The news follows an historic three-way accord made between Spain, Gibraltar and Britain in September which opens access from the end of the year to the Rock. The opening of the border allows travellers to cross with ease and provides a key gateway to Southern Spain and the popular Costa Del Sol and Costa De La Luz.

Furthermore, the new route will be the only regional link which provides a direct and convenient service for friends and family wishing to visit relatives serving in the British Forces, posted in Gibraltar. This will further enhance commercial maritime links between Devon, Cornwall and the Rock.

Commenting on the news, Tony Hallwood, Aviation Development Director for Bristol International Airport said: “The new route provides an important link for second home owners, businesses with interests in the area, holiday makers and leisure customers looking for a more direct route to this vibrant and popular region. It also provides a convenient link for Spanish and Gibraltar businesses looking to expand their regional interests in the UK.”

Nigel Hutchings, regional affairs director at Business West added: "There are already strong business links between the South West and Gibraltar and this new direct route presents additional opportunities for businesses to participate in dialogue.”

The new service will depart at 09.55am four times a week on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. Passengers flying on Fly Gibraltar’s Boeing 737-300 aircraftwill also be offered a pre-flight concierge service allowing passengers to pre-arrange meals, buy duty free, hire cars and purchase travel insurance among other services.

Details of the one-way fares will be announced in December when the tickets go on sale.

Cheers RVR27/09 :ok:

Interesting that BRS has now put out a press release about the Gibraltar route. The intention was mentioned some time ago in PPRuNe and elsewhere but the whole idea of Fly Gibraltar, and indeed the future of Gibraltar Airport, has met some scepticism in the Gibraltar thread in this forum.

Let's hope this announcement means the enterprise is to go ahead.

On another matter, I passed through the airport at morning ‘rush hour time’ for the first time since the new security measures following the alleged terrorist plot announced on 10 August.

I was somewhat concerned to discover the queue from security stretched from the security area along the landing, down the stairs and half across the check-in area floor space. I had passed through at lunch time a few weeks ago when the security queue was minimal.

This time we arrived at 6.30am. Our fight was not due to depart for another two hours so we had a cuppa landside before returning to the security queue at 7am.

By then the tail ‘only’ reached the top of the stairs. We joined it and were pleasantly surprised that we were through security within twenty minutes. We had feared well over half an hour even from the top of the stairs, so well done to those workers involved.

The other thing of note was that the parallel taxiway was closed for work in progress, and departing aircraft had to taxi along about half the length of the runway before turning to take off (we were using 09).

Our captain mentioned the closed taxiway as the reason for a slight departure delay. I wondered if someone like Standard Noise might like to give an idea how much this sort of thing slows down the arrivals and departures procedures.

MV: the work on the parallel taxiway was very much routine for ATC ops. Taxiways and runways need to be resurfaced periodically 'cos they wear out. It's all in a days work...

We applied increased approach spacing of anything from 8-12 miles between successive arrivals to allow for the back-track, rather than the usual 4-6 miles minimum spacing. That said, it varied considerably because some aircraft could vacate via the intermediate D/F intersections (Dash 8s, Jetstreams, E-145s) whilst others needed longer on the runway to complete the turn/ backtrack. B757s and A321s could only use A and B so there was an even longer delay then, plus some interesting decision-making about when to push them back onto Taxiway Z, without totally blocking up the Aprons, especially when 09 was used.

We also played it tactically and tried to accomodate a series of arrivals/departures at times, rather than doing alternate arrivals/departures, in the runway "gaps". Nothing is perfect but we seem to have had relatively few go-rounds due to the back-tracking. Hopefully it'll all be back to normal by the 31st. If any aircrew are reading this, thanks for your patience. I certainly caused delays of up to 5-10 minutes for some of the last flights in a particular sequence of arrivals at peak times but what can you do when someone is #5, say, you need to achieve the approach spacing AND give the Tower a chance to get some of the departures away? Backtracking has been a fact of life at certain UK airports for years, I guess (Luton, Southampton come to mind...)

Many thanks ATCOJ30 for that informative and interesting explanation. This is one of the great pleasures and privileges of PPRuNe membership for non-aviation people like me who are interested in the subject.

Looking ahead to the winter generally at BRS, I have had a look at Mayfly for the first week of winter schedules, or to be precise from 1st November to the end of that week.

I note that FCA is operating two aircraft most days – a 757 and a 321. I know that some sun flights are taken off for December/January (and sometimes put back in for Christmas/New Year) but is FCA going to retain two based aircraft at BRS for the entire winter? The Santa flights and ski programme also have to be operated.

Sharm el Sheik seems extraordinarily popular next week. The web version of Mayfly shows four flights – TOM and FCA on Thursday, XLA on Saturday and XLA again (but with an A 320 this time, presumably the Air Malta machine) on Sunday.

I know Mayfly is not always completely accurate, especially days in advance, and may be showing one SSH flight too many.

XLA is also operating the Hurghada on Fridays, and elsewhere in PPRuNe there is a report that TOM will start a weekly BRS-Luxor in winter 07/08 which suggests that Egypt is seen as increasingly popular from this part of the world. Strange then that the Taba that operated in the autumn/early winter of 2005 and was supposed to operate Aug to Nov this year didn’t appear, or if it did, it didn’t last long.

TCX, which is operating the new Agadir flight, seems to have work with a 320 next week every day from Wed to Sun (Mon and Tue in next week’s Mayfly still in ‘summer mode’) so is this now a based aircraft at BRS?

Given the huge ski programme, the regular winter sun programme and the FCA transatlantics starting in February, this promises to be another busy charter winter at BRS.

Harping back to ski flights (16 or 17 weekly charters again?), easyJet seems to be operating double daily for much of the winter to GVA, three times a day on Saturdays and some Sundays, rising to four a day on Saturdays from February.

Are winter sports a particular passion for West Country people. Either that or there is something going on in the snow that might be interesting to know more about, and it's passed me by. :{

Having done the old backtracking trick at Belfast City for years, I can't say I've found this to be a problem. Most of the pilots got used to it fairly quickly and they have helped by making sure they make their landing roll as short as poss to help us out. It's all going swimmingly and with any luck, the pax shouldn't notice any difference. But when it gets foggy, well..........:ooh: :ugh:

Taxiway Golf work in progess
 

I should think ATC at BRS will be relieved at the iminent reinstatement of taxiway Golf. Witnessed a Thomas cook A320 backtrack after landing then take taxiway Foxtrot to vacate the runway instead of Delta. Tower advised him to keep moving in case he sank.The other week saw an Easy jet A319 miss taxiway Delta and brought to a halt before it could use Foxtrot,tower had to get a ASU vehicle to turn him on to the western apron and back on to Delta.In the mean time a log jam developed behind. Don't know if the boys and girls in the tower do juggling in their spare time,but certainly had their work cut out at the busy times doing pushbacks,clearances,landings,take offs and the constant questions about slot times.If 2007 turns out to be busier then 2006 I would have thought a ground controller will be a must at peak times.

Easy A320? Hope not! A319 mefinks!

Aye from what Ive heard its been fun and games, especially when LVP's are in force.

Can ATCOJ30 or Noisy advise; will new hold G4 and repositioned G2/3 be operational straight away? Or not until the next airac is effective?

Who needs an Xbox when you have that kind of thing at work! We're used to it though, it happens even when Golf is open (a certain lo cost airline from the Emerald Isle like to think Foxtrot is the saviour of their turnaround times).
Foxtrot is only rated up to Fk100, owt heavier runs the risk suffering a little mishap.

ATCO - Can't remember offhand, only seen the plans once, and even then I wasn't much interested. Still, we shall discover all in the fullness of time.
As for me, I'm looking forward to the next 5 months (on nights anyway). I am relishing my forthcoming research into eyelids, more particularly, should they have holes in them or has evolution provided adequately functioning units already?:zzz: :ok:

Any word on Aer Lingus pulling out of Bristol (again) after the winter season. Flights aren't bookable on the website and they just announced several increases in frequencies on other routes yesterday.

Air Southwest have axed there Norwich service accroding to the booking system. It is unbookable after Winter. I am suprised at this!!

The workload lessens, hurrah!

The first First Choice long haul flight departed on Monday. Didn’t get off to a great start though. It was about 1 hour 30 late leaving Bristol and was declared tech on arrival in Manchester, so the passengers had to get off and wait while a fault was fixed, they sorted a replacement crew and left Manchester four hours later.

Also can confirm Aer Lingus are gone after March.

Wasnt quite the first FCA long haul; technically, yes, but it was a one off. The FCA Long haul schedule starts in Feb I believe. Yes, Im a pedant...

Thanks for that info, though. I knew it was quite late arriving at Bristol as I was waiting for it at work! Nice landing though I must say :-).

FlyBe to acquire BA Connect
 

With the news that Flybe is hoping to acquire BA Connect what will this mean for Bristol? As noted on this forum FlyBe appear to be curtailing their ops at Bristol in favour of Exeter.
Also would this have any effect on the Tenerife service flown by BA Connect (GB Airways) as they will not be included in the sale.
Has anybody in the know heard anything on the grapevine?

Noticable lack of commitment from FlyBe over Bristol

All the other regional statements have some wording committing to the airport, although the expanded route map still shows BRS routes.

It'll all come out in the wash, no doubt. But I'm concerned, being based here. Please, not the 'Orrible Orange.

BRS is twice the size by passenger numbers of SOU & EXT put together. Will they really drop it?

Life after BACon
 

I would also be a bit uncomfortable about Easyjet dominating all the routes around BRS. One of the benefits of the BACon route to CDG was it flew at useful times to do a day's business in Paris; the same is not true of Easyjet's "once a day" policy, which sees me continue to bash down the M4 to LHR to pick up flights to mainland Europe. (Next stop ROM - three days out of the office if I fly with EZY, 1 day if I fly with BA from LHR).

The ray of sunshine behind BACon departing might be the arrival of LH to take over the German routes. This would be a real bonus for using FRA/MUC/DUS/HAM as hubbing points into Germany, Austria, Switzerland and onto the Star Alliance long-haul network.

We wait and watch with interest.

The Embraers typically averaged 30-40 pax per day most months on the European routes, sometimes a bit less in the winter.

Would LH be happy with this sort of loading?

As B_T has said, the European routes (except CDG) are once daily which precludes doing a day's business and then coming home that day.

Would any airline be able to sustain a twice daily service from a regional airport like BRS to these European destinations, and more importantly, could they get slots at the times business travellers would want? Probably not in most cases.

BACX did try FRA double daily last year but it did not last long.

It would be a shame to lose these key business routes but such is life.

My main thoughts are for the staff of BAConnect in these uncertain times for them.

MV is absolutely right about the poor loadings on the BACon services, and the failure of the twice daily to FRA.

Sometimes poor loadings are due to poorly timed services. LH run fairly full A319's out of BHX to FRA and MUC, which I would guess are probably 30% full of people going to FRA and MUC and the remainder people hubbing through onto other LH or StarAlliance destinations.

The KL AMS service is very popular, and I would guess most of the people on those flights (4 a day) are actually connecting on through AMS to somewhere else on the KLM/SkyTeam network.

BACon's big handicap was that Bristol wasn't connected to the rest of the BA (or even OneWorld) network anywhere, so passenger numbers were limited to the "point to point" traffic.

Looking at (and using) LH's attractve European and Long-Haul fares, I think they'd get good traffic out of BRS. They'd certainly get more of my business (which, admittedly would come out of BACon and KLM as well as cutting down trips to LHR).

Bristol deserves better hubbing than KL/AMS and SN/BRU (God help us). Having access to FRA/MUC as *hubs* would be a superb improvement.

So guess BA will hardly be keen for Loganair to remain operating as British Airways. Or Sun Air or GB, the only other surviving franchisees.

The BA routes not served by anyone else are ZRH, FRA, MXP, MUC. The flights are usually fairly full with mainly business travellers, so I assume the yields are reasonable. But we suffer from them being at silly times of the day - mid-morning to mid-afternoon is hopeless for business travellers as it wipes out the entire day.

I'm sure early morning flights of the above would attract more people. But I suspect KLM has most of the BRS business travel & could well pick up more now.

EDI & GLA have taken a real beating since EasyJet started & CDG could go the same way with a couple more rotations.

Flybe may try out the FRA/MUC/MXP routes, but, from a quick poll of my BRS colleagues this morning, none believe we'll be working for Flybe at BRS 6 months from now.