True....

I'll probably get shot down in flames saying this, but Alderney is way over served!

For an island with less than 2000 people living there full time the services Aurigny offer isn't actually that bad!

OK.....the service levels are probably a bit wayward but that'll improve once the Dornier operation is perfected.

I'm very confident Aurigny will have the operation perfected in the very near future!

The number of flights is not based on population! The Isles of Scilly have a similar population of ~ 2000 people. In Winter there are 5 flights a day from Lands End but between March - October (especially height of the summer months) there are 20-30+ as well as Exeter and Newquay based on seasonal demand...

Jacob

Does Isles of Scilly Skybus operate at a profit ? Does the Islands Council own it ? Do they subsidize it ?

In anticipation, thanks for the answers.

Jacob

Further to that; why does Scilly have so many services & destinations compared to Alderney? As an example, tomorrow AUR operate 1 flight to Southampton & 3 to Guernsey. That is from an island to which there is no other way of travelling. Even in the height of summer, Alderney does not get as many destinations & nowhere near as many actual flights as Scilly does.
The population is, I believe, closer to 1500 than 2000, but it does have an important (to Alderney) tourist industry.
To mattc, I don't think that there are many Alderney residents who would agree with you in your statement about the regularity, reliability or quality of AUR's service to Alderney ! Or, again, am I wrong ?

Alderney Departures
 

According to all the websites I have access to there are 2 flights to SOU and 4 to GCI tomorrow. kcockayne where do you get your info from?

It was on Flightradar 24 Alderney page. Look it up. However, I'm quite prepared to accept that there are 2. It does make sense. Still not many though.

FR24 are currently showing 2 SOU and 4 GCI. I guess a key question is "how full are these flights?".

08:05 GR202 Guernsey (GCI) Aurigny Air Services D28 Scheduled
10:05 GR504 Southampton (SOU) Aurigny Air Services D28 Scheduled
11:50 GR232 Guernsey (GCI) Aurigny Air Services D28 Scheduled
15:35 GR262 Guernsey (GCI) Aurigny Air Services D28 Scheduled
17:55 GR564 Southampton (SOU) Aurigny Air Services D28 Scheduled
18:15 GR284 Guernsey (GCI) Aurigny Air Services D28 Scheduled

oh dear mattc. Over 80% of Alderney residents would not agree with you. And I'm sure the 1,000's of tourist will also not agree.
You should know, we have no alternative means of transport.

People are leaving the island because they can't get flights and if they can the cost is exorbitant.

As for perfecting the Dornier operation, it would be good if it started !

Hermite

Yes, I see that there are 2 Southampton flights shown. When I looked it up there was only one. But, it only showed flights up to 1500. However, I don't think that any of those shown are going to be operated by the Dornier, if today is anything to go by. They all showed D228 & , certainly the last one ( & I suspect all) was operated by BN3.

I thought Alderney now had a boat service...? The bumblebee?

As I said, once Aurigny has ironed out the problems with the Dornier introduction then I have no doubt it'll be a robust service, just like the service they've provided the islands for the last 48 years!

Matts

Any prospect of an answer to the questions I asked you & the points I made, mattc ? it would be nice , after the personal attack you made !

Bumblebee ! Are you kidding ? Are you serious ?

Kcockayne, you haven't just touched a nerve with me, it's quite evident throughout PPRune that you touch people's nerves with unjustified, derogatory comments, I seem to remember you spouting off in other threads and intentionally derailing them for your own agendas!
Anyway, this forum is built for airing opionons I admit that, but I certainly do not come on here to make "personal attacks".

I was mearly stating what you post on here about Aurigny is darn right rude and out of context, I personally think airing your opionons without backing them up with facts is probably a little bit pointless....again that is my opinion.

Admittedly the Dornier operation hasn't been up to the scratch but if you were open eyed about things then you would've realised Aurigny have been operating the Dornier on regular services with the Trislander accompanying it too!
I do believe they haven't been operating the Dornier the last few days because of scheduled maintence.....?

Aurigny's schedule changes on a regular basis so I wouldn't bother stating your so called facts on FR24 data, again you're trying to base your attacks on Aurigny from a dodgy source.

We all know the media blow everything out of context and of course that is what they're paid to do, so yet again, just think about what you're going to write before blasting off!

In regards to "Bailing out Aurigny" with taxpayers money, I'm afraid in my opinion this is the only viable way to operate "lifeline" service/s to and from the islands.
Everyone knows that the Gatwick route is a massive asset to the island and the SoG definitely made the right choice in safeguarding the route in the purchase of Aurigny all those years ago.

I can't speak for the majority of Guernsey Tax payers as that would be completely unjust but as it stands, I am more than happy to "subsidise" an asset such as Aurigny to offer lifeline services to and from our islands and long may it continue.

I'm sorry I've clearly been ill-informed about the "bumblebee". I haven't actually been to Alderney in a number of years! (20 or so years!)

Have you looked at the Scilly Isles and compared them to Alderney?

There is demand from tourists to go to the significantly more attractive Scilly Isles!

Mattc - "I do believe they haven't been operating the Dornier the last few days because of scheduled maintence.....?"

Are all three 228's on maintenance at the same time then?

I overheard a conversation in the pub a few nights ago about the 228NG which went along the lines of ' it's got to be returned to RUAG due to a problem with the wing spa'. Can anyone add any light to this or did I mishear & need to rinse out my ear trumpet?

I saw the NG on FR24 heading towards Denmark the other day, I'm guessing for its paint!

I'm also guessing if it was to be repaired by RUAG it would head back to oberpfaffenhofen where they are based!


But I've not heard that rumour no....perhaps pub talk?


Good things come to whom wait....as they say! ;)

mattc56410, Jerbourg, and five zero by ortac, I think even Mark Darby would agree that the transition to Dorniers has been far less smooth than anyone would have wanted. Delays have been hugely talked up by the media and on-time performance in ACI remains at 85%+ (see CAA figs.), incl weather-related delays/canx (which continue to comprise the bulk of disruption). But clearly Alderney has not been able to *rely* on a good service in the last year, and that isn't good enough. It shouldn't have to wait for a good service. So, for instance, scrapping FTSE rather than sending her up to Cumbernauld for annual/overhaul on the assumption of the on-time arrival of CS-TGG and D-ILFM was (to my very basic understanding - happy to be corrected) a mistake.

But it's no fault of GR that BN2 spares have evaporated. Loganair has had some parts on order from Britten-Norman (some parts unavailable from other suppliers) for more than two years, and Skybus has experienced similar problems. UK police forces have had to ground their Islanders due to a lack of spares. So the big tech delays in Ald in November aren't because of some great negligence. (Incidentally, if you can't trust B-N to get you a spare pitot head then God knows how you can trust them to build you a 'new' Tris... ignoring the endless regulatory impossibilities of the idea under EASA OPS.)

Kcockayne, NewquayJacob, and Feet on ground, in the Scilly Isles, which have far higher volumes of traffic to pay fixed costs, air fares are roughly double to/from ACI (a basic rate of £160 return to/from Land's End, equivalent to the run to Guernsey, or closer to £300 return to/from Newquay/Exeter/Bristol). A delegation who came to Alderney to share their ideas/experiences of making small island life work last year went home with their tongues hanging out. Orkney and Shetland inter-island fares are only dirt-cheap (and, at that, only thus for residents) because the SNP is the beneficiary of a wonky Barnett formula which funds the Air Discount Scheme.

Kcockayne, I often enjoy your observations but you are quite, quite wrong to suggest that Aurigny is near bankruptcy or anything of the sort. It has just been recapitalised by the States and has been restructured by new management such that the core business is close to break-even (besides fleet acquisition and route development costs, which create huge value beyond the firm itself). So we won't be seeing £25m of debts on the books again; and besides, even if we did it would make a great deal of sense for it to be on the States'; firstly, it's taxpayers' money and basic principles of good governance dictate that they should thus be allowed to vote on how it's spent. Secondly, the interest rate for States borrowing is almost by definition superior to any private facility with the Royal Bank of Scotland (which until recently was Aurigny's main means of short-term liquidity), so because it's in the interest of the airline, the States and the taxpayer to get the lowest rate it should – much like Network Rail in the UK – find its debts on government books.

Three things will improve the situation. The arrival of G-OAUR, now in its final stages of acceptance, will inevitably transform the resilience of the Alderney services. The agreement with Lydd Air to provide short-term tech cover with two Piper Navajos, although obviously not a long-term solution, should save the island from the sort of delays which have bugged the service this year. Finally, the MoU and – eventually – PSO which will enshrine the basis and remit of Aurigny's Alderney service in law is going to change things a lot. Why? Because it will stop them from having to serve two masters: the people of Alderney and the profit motive.

When one simple notion is enshrined in law – the idea that this airline's value exists far beyond that of its bank balance – we will start to see progress.

Buy that man a drink......nice post Aero Mad :ok:

WoW! That escalated rather quickly. I think the nub of the matter is down to one thing from which all decisions must be made.

Is GR there to make a profit or to serve the public? Economical or social benefit? It can't do both.

I believe that they do rather well in serving the public. The choice of routes is spectacular for a 'small' island of 65k. However, it will never make a profit in its current guise, under its current instructions and management.

They just received another bailout of £20m to pay off existing debt and a further £5.5m to cover expected losses for the next 1-2 years, which reinforces that. Alderney will never be profitable. It needs a PSO and the states to just accept it'll cost approx £4m to run over say a 3 year period. Whether GR is the right operator for that PSO is another matter. The Do intro has been a disaster and ACI residents are quite rightly up in arms. A number of flights to SOU have been cancelled this week and all ACI customers re-routed through GCI to/from SOU all because (apparently) they don't have a serviceable a/c that can fly in icing conditions.

The States cannot keep bemoaning the reduction of pax/tourist numbers. They have made a rod for their own back with the closed skies policy. It works to protect GR but will never work to increase competition, which will bring more footfall. I feel sorry for their MD trying to keep both the public and his political masters happy. It's a no-win.

Guidance needs to come from the politicians. Accept it's going to cost £x per taxpayer to continue to fund the choice of flights whilst making big losses or decide to turn it into profit. They cannot do both.

Just a personal perspective by the way!

Forgot to add that I agree with most of what Mad said apart from the Do will 'inevitably' improve the ACI service. We've been hearing this for the last 2 years. How on earth can you make that call now?!