TLP and HS for God's sake, wise up and grow up...

My dad's bigger than yours, etc etc.

I could easily find out who the crew were in this incident. Who cares? Yes the majority of the incidents were by secondees, but as the majority of RJ crews probably are secondees, then that is to be expected.

I have to admit (bites tongue) but TLP is correct about the failure rate of BA cadet pilots on turboprop courses, but maybe that is because BA recruitment was looking for pilots who could fly jets, and didn't consider the possibility that they would have to learn their trade on arguably more complicated turboprop aircraft (don't know which side I am arguing in favour of here!).

As for the comments about TLP's comments on the other thread about TDLF's misfortunes... I, and many friends, have had our lives totally boll0xed by that inept @rsehole... but my Christian upbringing and my 'normal sense of humanity' would NEVER wish such misfortune on ANY other human being. While most of us could not abide the man, his misguided policies, or his tongue-in-the-brown sidekicks, I don't believe we would really echo TLP's sentiments.

TLP, however, is entitled to his views, and is entitled to air them on this public forum, in the same way that several outspoken mainline crews feel entitled to view their revulsion of us BACX crews, and their support of our poor treatment at the hands of mainline managers.

I hope I have portrayed a balanced viewpoint here for everyone else. While I know I have been sh@fted, I don't feel the need to attack 'ALL' of mainline. I have so many good friends in mainline, that it would be incorrect to tar all with the same brush.

Back to the original thread I think. :\

RM

I appreciate that this is off thread. (But it has so far followed a depressingly predictable course!!)

I was interested by:

Which 'incidents' are you talking about?

I'm not trying to make any particular point. I certainly wouldn't suggest any difference in ability between the two groups,

I just wonder if what, I think, you are suggesting is actually correct.

The LCY incident wasn't a secondee.

Funny how our cadets keep failing at BACX :confused:

Not one failed to convert onto jets when they cameback.

HandSolo

It's very difficult to argue with a bitter person who has a chip on their shoulder.

Blue pilot.

Two quotes from this thread alone

Yeah yeah very hippy.

By the way you got a thing about managers' laughing??

Your seem a very bitter and angry person normal nigel, you seem to get a kick out of having a go at people.

All i was saying is that instead of fighting between yourselfs your energy would be put to far better use by talking together then presenting a united front.

Obviously you just enjoy stirring the pot Normal Nigel, it is counter productive and achieves nothing. But then a spoilt child often behaves this way :O :p

Tandem,

as you say, this has started to follow the normal predictable course (that's why I rarely bother posting on any BA / BACX topics anymore).

I don't think it would be right to wash our dirties in public. I'm sure you read the in-house safety digest the same as me. Let's leave it there, and not further drag this off topic... please?

Anyway, as we aren't a franchise anymore, we are irrelevant to the thread.

RM

Blue

There isn't a United front. We are different companies, to all intents and purposes.

You do seem obsessed with the "lets all work together for the greater good" ethic.

Very noble, but Euro babble. I think you've had a little too much AF/KLM bull**** exposure.

This is the real world old boy.

Oh and bitter and angry?

Couldn't be further from the truth old bean.

Happy as a pig in sh!t.

To The Little prince

You wrote: . May I refer YOU to the guy who bent the last one, er, mebbe we'll spare his embarrassment. Or should we discuss the mainline trainer...the one who mixed gear and flaps up???

Once again you have chosen to bring this up on the forum. Actually it was the F/O that made the wrong selection, but heh lets not allow facts to enter into it.

With the content of these sorts of posting you make, and the personal attacks you make on decent people, who can be identified, from the mask of this site, it really makes you a very shallow and sad person. You have no place on a flight deck, as part of a crew. BRAL/MANX/BRYMON or wherever you came from would be ashamed of your behaviour.

If you would like to discuss the fact relating to any of the incidents you have mentioned, please send me a private message, and I'll happily do so. I have archived your comments of the lst year or so should I need to refer to them

Cheers

Trying to get back on topic...

WW successfully changed Aer Lingus from a full service loss making national airline with lots of union issues into a low fares/no frills profit making national airline.

Why would anybody think that this successful strategy should change?

GB will take over all LGW shorthaul routes and make them profitable for BA. BMed will be given more routes and will operate hand in hand with GB. BA will become a long haul service airline only much like the old BOAC.

BA needs GB and BMed. WW coming is only a good thing for these companies.

Why are these threads always started by anxious, nervous and bitter BA pilots?

- that's QUITE enough of that, thank you Man Flex

Thinks - better put a :D on that in case it upsets someone of a sensitive nature........

Yes and of course we will just roll over to get our bellies tickled and allow our jobs to be outsourced further.

I think you've missed the significance of one of your own points there Man Flex:

The reason GB and BMed can serve certain destinations profitably where BA can't is the union issues in BA, namely ground staff and cabin crew. At LGW the cabin crew have been screwed by BASSA to the extent that their pay and productivity is broadly comparable to charter airlines and GB. LGW is also an exceptionally junior base for flight crew so the wages for them are the lowest in the company, comparable once again to GB, with Carmen rostering allowing the company maximum flexibility. If WW sorts out the union issues then there'll be no need whatsoever to give more work to GB as the reasons for giving GB the work in the first place will have gone. If WW doesn't want to sort out the unions then what's he comnig to BA for?

Not suggesting he was wrong then BOAC are you?

Little Prince, as someone who worked closely with 2 "cadets" who came back into BA through the back door, I can truthfully say that it was the BACX "training system" that failed those cadets and nothing else, as N_N says funny how they did'nt fail when the had the best in-house training and are now successfully flying either the 737 or airbus at LGW of LHR, but I bet you not bitter
:yuk:

Da dog

Well said.

There are quite a few on the 757/767 fleet as well.

Apparently they do rather well flying into aifields like EBB, BOG (well did anyway),LUN.

Aircraft at max weight with performance critical departures/arrivals

Approaches and airfields slightly more taxing than the BACX route network.

But, hey ho, they are obviously not up to BACX's standards.

Chips and failed applications spring to mind:rolleyes:

Man Flex

Where are these profits you speak of? The 100m last year but only 2m net? The cleaning contract no cleaning was done for?

WW has not left EI in a good state and this is becoming clearer by the day.

Hey Normal, worried about being outsourced, welcome to the real world. We already have B-scale pilots happy to be at BA, so why not Z-scale pilots. Even simpler, just shift the work to third parties over a period of time. The time scale may be longer but every employee, including the CEO can be replaced, and by someone cheaper.

Worried yet? I think some of the true believers might have problems when it is their turn to be profit maximised.

BA pilots are not perfect, but some are seriously deluded, don't believe the hype.

Oh yeh, in my opinion jets are easier to fly in many respects than Turbo-props.

Harry, being replaced soon by cheap import

How many hours have you got Harry? Which part of the aircraft do you currently sit in when at work, (or is that stand-in for most of the trip)?


This thread neatly illustrates the sheer folly of entering the airline business as a pilot right now. Wannabe's be careful - you will reach a point where you are too far in to afford to back out yet rue the life you could have had had you stayed in the real world.

Actually Harry, though I am pretty sure you are a steward and not an employed ATPL right now, you are right up to a point. long term the whole business is heading to ruin and the contract culture is here to stay. The effects on safety will be ruinous, but hey, who cares these days?

Or do they? Funny how the British merchant marine went down the contract crew route and went to the loss of a ship per week around the world. Without passengers involved this was acceprted for quite a while until the insurers cried "foul" and demanded a return to high professional standards, axiomatic to which are decent, pensionable, stable, long term careers for merchant marine deck officers. The result? BP et al are now UK registered and crewed ships once more.

Funny how the worm turns. A few hull losses - I am appalled to have to say, and the UK civil air fleet will take the same route. Before then - chaos, led by those old sharks at BA. Danair was just the warm-up act!

Take care out there.

Harry, don't listen to their cruel jibes. Your secret is safe with me, steward indeed.

Why does there always seem to be a lot of opinion that when anyone wants to solve BA's problems they need to dispose of LGW to someone else.

Why indeed Diverse? I would say it would be an equally valid business strategy to franchise the LHR operation. For some reason people who work at LHR seem to think they are immune to change within the business. It is OK for the regions and LGW to undergo radical surgery but not for LHR. Why? It is just a business like any other.

BA pilots are also just like any other group of employees within the company and are just as liable to be replaced or outsourced.

Harry

Which is why no profitable major airline anywhere in the world has succesfully outsourced its entire flying operation. Get real folks. BA is an airline. It flies aircraft from A to B. That is it's business. Nobody outsources their core functions or they cease to be.

I never cease to be amazed by the people who decry 'management' and their Harvard MBAs then tell us that if they were running the airline they would outsource everything, which is itself a Harvard strategy of quite some vintage!