Who is it, FC, MT, TC or Thomsons?
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Who is it, FC, MT, TC or Thomsons?
What is this I hear?
A major UK tour operator is reported:
1. As running into increasing liquidity problems
2. To have issued a profits warning
3. As refusing to make a 2003 trading forecast
4. This has led to shares dropping by 16%
5. To be the slowest holiday giant out of the starting blocks this year
6. To be 30% down on last years sales
7. As having net debts of €4bn
8. With off-balance sheet liabilities of a further €6bn
9. Has a €2bn loan due for repayment NOW and also has
10. A €550m convertible bond, up for refinancing next year
AND THE NAME OF THIS COMPANY?
I'll give you a clue, shall I?
It's one word, two syllables; seven letters
have you guessed yet?
That's right; we all know that this report can be describing only one company!
Don't we?
Of course, the name is
THOMSONS!!!!!!!! Who else could I have been referring to?
Makes the situation for MT look positively rosy
I do hope the CAA & the Dept. of Transport are happy with the situation, especially with the imminent renewal of their ATOL licence.
It’s about time our mates in the business media started doing their jobs properly and tell the truth for a change. All this startling news certainly puts things with MT into a different perspective.
Sleep well, folks, I think this could be a very real turning point for MT
"'tis better to MyTravel in hope than arrive at the grim truth with Thomson"
If you want to check on how your company is doing go to www.companieshouse.co.uk and follow the instructions. You will need your company number and be prepared to pay about £5.00 for your companies results. You will be able to compare 2001 against 2002. You will see how your company is doing and the remuneration the Directors pay themselves. Very enlightening.
A major UK tour operator is reported:
1. As running into increasing liquidity problems
2. To have issued a profits warning
3. As refusing to make a 2003 trading forecast
4. This has led to shares dropping by 16%
5. To be the slowest holiday giant out of the starting blocks this year
6. To be 30% down on last years sales
7. As having net debts of €4bn
8. With off-balance sheet liabilities of a further €6bn
9. Has a €2bn loan due for repayment NOW and also has
10. A €550m convertible bond, up for refinancing next year
AND THE NAME OF THIS COMPANY?
I'll give you a clue, shall I?
It's one word, two syllables; seven letters
have you guessed yet?
That's right; we all know that this report can be describing only one company!
Don't we?
Of course, the name is
THOMSONS!!!!!!!! Who else could I have been referring to?
Makes the situation for MT look positively rosy
I do hope the CAA & the Dept. of Transport are happy with the situation, especially with the imminent renewal of their ATOL licence.
It’s about time our mates in the business media started doing their jobs properly and tell the truth for a change. All this startling news certainly puts things with MT into a different perspective.
Sleep well, folks, I think this could be a very real turning point for MT
"'tis better to MyTravel in hope than arrive at the grim truth with Thomson"
If you want to check on how your company is doing go to www.companieshouse.co.uk and follow the instructions. You will need your company number and be prepared to pay about £5.00 for your companies results. You will be able to compare 2001 against 2002. You will see how your company is doing and the remuneration the Directors pay themselves. Very enlightening.
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Thats strange, share price dropped that much? I thought Thomson is owned by TUI AG.
Try this link http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=...s&l=on&z=m&q=l
Try this link http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=...s&l=on&z=m&q=l
Last edited by mpenage; 2nd May 2003 at 01:51.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Some objective, balanced reporting would be nice.
I agree that perhaps this has not been raised in the most mature way, but it does highlight the fact that ALL tour operators are having a tough time at the moment. The media focus (for understandable reasons after last years monsterous mismanagement) is on MT, but Joe public seems to be blissfully unaware that certain other companies are in, perhaps, just as much trouble and yet there is nothing mentioned in the press.
MT have all the bad news out, have taken tough decisions and will hopefully turn things around. Constant attack by certain elements of the press are not making it any easier.
I certainly do not gloat at the misfortune of anyone - I know how it feels to have the axe hanging over you - not pleasant.
Today is the start of summer season. I wish a prosperous one to all concerned and hope that war, SARS, economy, earthquakes, terrorism etc etc do not take their toll.
Happy summer and safe flying to you all.
A4
Just noticed, this has been moved from the main Rumours forum. Can anyone explain why, please ? The main "Future of MYT/Kestrel" thread has been "front page" for weeks now.......... just seems a bit curious.
A4
MT have all the bad news out, have taken tough decisions and will hopefully turn things around. Constant attack by certain elements of the press are not making it any easier.
I certainly do not gloat at the misfortune of anyone - I know how it feels to have the axe hanging over you - not pleasant.
Today is the start of summer season. I wish a prosperous one to all concerned and hope that war, SARS, economy, earthquakes, terrorism etc etc do not take their toll.
Happy summer and safe flying to you all.
A4
Just noticed, this has been moved from the main Rumours forum. Can anyone explain why, please ? The main "Future of MYT/Kestrel" thread has been "front page" for weeks now.......... just seems a bit curious.
A4
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Well it really does sound like someone got up on the wrong side of bed this morning!
Just to correct a few minor errors....
The company you are in fact referring to is not Thomson's,...
...but TUI ....
... Thomson's parent company.
1. There is definitely a lot of overcapacity in the market, not helped by certain competitors dumping capacity onto the market at non-existent or extremely low margins. Hence the drop relative to last years bookings. At least TUI are selling holidays at a profit.
2. All tour groups are having hard times but one profit warning is better than three.
3. It would have been irresponsible to make any valid forecast before the effect of a war in Iraq would have on business.
4. Unlike some of its competitors TUI still has a lot of assets to sell off if necessary.
5. TUI is on very good terms with its biggest lender/shareholder WestLB.
I think the news from TUI next wednesday will be better than people think.
The future is bright, the future is two shades of blue with a red squiggle.
Just to correct a few minor errors....
The company you are in fact referring to is not Thomson's,...
...but TUI ....
... Thomson's parent company.
1. There is definitely a lot of overcapacity in the market, not helped by certain competitors dumping capacity onto the market at non-existent or extremely low margins. Hence the drop relative to last years bookings. At least TUI are selling holidays at a profit.
2. All tour groups are having hard times but one profit warning is better than three.
3. It would have been irresponsible to make any valid forecast before the effect of a war in Iraq would have on business.
4. Unlike some of its competitors TUI still has a lot of assets to sell off if necessary.
5. TUI is on very good terms with its biggest lender/shareholder WestLB.
I think the news from TUI next wednesday will be better than people think.
The future is bright, the future is two shades of blue with a red squiggle.
I find it sad that NACUD doesn't realise that bad news for one Tour Operator is going to put investors off, but bad news for 2 Tour Operators might make some investors want to pull out of the industry altogether.
I hope that all Tour Operators manage to turn their businesses around as only that will help to secure jobs in the airline industry.
I hope that all Tour Operators manage to turn their businesses around as only that will help to secure jobs in the airline industry.
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So let me get this right, some of you had few problems with the thread regarding MYT and some of the total C*** that was posted there. However, suddenly some of you want to take the moral high ground! No one wants to hear of any company in trouble but let’s get a little perspective shall we ladies and gentlemen. MYT have been hounded both here and in the press for owing a lot less money than TUI appear to owe!
Seems to me if these figures are correct then TUI has more debt than equity, which puts it in no better and perhaps an even worse position than MYT. Making the distinction between Thompson and TUI is rather pointless as TUI is a vertically integrated company, just like MYT. Many parts of the MYT group made a profit last year and have been put under threat just the same.
I really hope both TUI and MYT publish some good figures this month and we all have a good summer!
Out of interest this report makes interesting reading!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mon 27 Jan 2003
The Business raises TUI refinancing concerns
The Business reports that TUI AG is running into ‘increasing liquidity problems’ which could force it to ask majority shareholder WestLB for emergency funds.
The news comes after TUI AG’s 2002 update last week. A profits warning and its refusal to make a 2003 forecast led to shares dropping by 16% in Germany over the week.
Thomsons is also rumoured to have suffered the slowest start of the UK major tour operators, with The Business reporting that Thomson is currently 30% down on last year.
The paper reports that TUI AG’s net debt is €4bn, with off-balance sheet liabilities of €6bn. Market cap currently stands at €2.3bn. A €2bn loan, due this April, will be repayed from non-core disposals, but a €550m convertible bond which will need refinancing next year is causing most concern.
The bond is set to convert into TUI shares at €64.48 – the shares are currently trading at €12.88.
The Business mentions that ‘a similar convertible bond was one of the factors that worsened the troubles of MyTravel’
. WestLB, which owns 32% of TUI AG, declined to comment, while TUI AG is refusing to comment in the run-up to its May FYs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I also ask why this thread was moved? And why there appears to have been an attempt to censor comments about TUI but not MYT on this site? At least not when it mattered!
Seems to me if these figures are correct then TUI has more debt than equity, which puts it in no better and perhaps an even worse position than MYT. Making the distinction between Thompson and TUI is rather pointless as TUI is a vertically integrated company, just like MYT. Many parts of the MYT group made a profit last year and have been put under threat just the same.
I really hope both TUI and MYT publish some good figures this month and we all have a good summer!
Out of interest this report makes interesting reading!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mon 27 Jan 2003
The Business raises TUI refinancing concerns
The Business reports that TUI AG is running into ‘increasing liquidity problems’ which could force it to ask majority shareholder WestLB for emergency funds.
The news comes after TUI AG’s 2002 update last week. A profits warning and its refusal to make a 2003 forecast led to shares dropping by 16% in Germany over the week.
Thomsons is also rumoured to have suffered the slowest start of the UK major tour operators, with The Business reporting that Thomson is currently 30% down on last year.
The paper reports that TUI AG’s net debt is €4bn, with off-balance sheet liabilities of €6bn. Market cap currently stands at €2.3bn. A €2bn loan, due this April, will be repayed from non-core disposals, but a €550m convertible bond which will need refinancing next year is causing most concern.
The bond is set to convert into TUI shares at €64.48 – the shares are currently trading at €12.88.
The Business mentions that ‘a similar convertible bond was one of the factors that worsened the troubles of MyTravel’
. WestLB, which owns 32% of TUI AG, declined to comment, while TUI AG is refusing to comment in the run-up to its May FYs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I also ask why this thread was moved? And why there appears to have been an attempt to censor comments about TUI but not MYT on this site? At least not when it mattered!
Last edited by kinsman; 2nd May 2003 at 07:34.
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Actually, the MYT shares are up because the MYT thread was moved to this forum. 
Care to elaborate on what 'censorship' has taken place Kinsman? I can still find and read both this and the MYT thread. Does your dictionary have some other definition?
I am fed up with the accusations from a few naive MYT pilots who are under the impression that because people on PPRuNe discuss the content of some 'bad news' report about their company in the financial section of a newspaper that somehow I am trying to undermine MYT and bring them down. Such paranoid delusions and belief in the power of PPRuNe are worthy of serious psychological examination.
This thread is NOT about a major UK tour operator. It is about a German tour operator. The fact that the thread starter was under the impression that a bit of schadenfreude would somehow balance things out and cause the press to pay less attention to MYT and more on TUI shows astounding naivety.
Trying to blame PPRuNE for somehow directing the media and highlighting MYT's problems is pathetic. The attitude of some posters is indicative of 'head in the sand' syndrome. By assuming that if the thread was closed everything would be OK and the press would ignore MYT's financial problems they are ignoring the fact that the people who make the real decisions are the banks and the major investors (the ones who make a difference) and they base their decisions on announcements from the companies and the banks. Oh yes.. and PPRuNe
I hope MYT pulls through this difficult period and that all my friends who work for them have a better future. The debate about MYT and TUI and all the other companies will go on. I just hope that the debate can remain about the issues and not about the paranoid delusions of a few posters.
Care to elaborate on what 'censorship' has taken place Kinsman? I can still find and read both this and the MYT thread. Does your dictionary have some other definition?
I am fed up with the accusations from a few naive MYT pilots who are under the impression that because people on PPRuNe discuss the content of some 'bad news' report about their company in the financial section of a newspaper that somehow I am trying to undermine MYT and bring them down. Such paranoid delusions and belief in the power of PPRuNe are worthy of serious psychological examination.
This thread is NOT about a major UK tour operator. It is about a German tour operator. The fact that the thread starter was under the impression that a bit of schadenfreude would somehow balance things out and cause the press to pay less attention to MYT and more on TUI shows astounding naivety.
Trying to blame PPRuNE for somehow directing the media and highlighting MYT's problems is pathetic. The attitude of some posters is indicative of 'head in the sand' syndrome. By assuming that if the thread was closed everything would be OK and the press would ignore MYT's financial problems they are ignoring the fact that the people who make the real decisions are the banks and the major investors (the ones who make a difference) and they base their decisions on announcements from the companies and the banks. Oh yes.. and PPRuNe
I hope MYT pulls through this difficult period and that all my friends who work for them have a better future. The debate about MYT and TUI and all the other companies will go on. I just hope that the debate can remain about the issues and not about the paranoid delusions of a few posters.
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Danny,
I do not believe you should state publicly that you are fed up with MYT pilots. In your position and with this toy set of yours, which you now run as a business, you should keep your position and views private.
Your reply clearly indicates your bias and thus the methods being used to attempt to bury this thread. Firstly, it was moved very quickly from News and Rumours to this secondary / minor forum and the link, which appeared at first to link this thread to the latest threads on the PPRuNe home page was discontinued. You have also allowed the original thread by Niteflite01 to continue unabated on Rumour and News and have only just moved it to page 2 of Airlines, Airports and Routes. Furthermore, the title was only changed when it became apparent that MYT was still flying. The beginning of that thread by Niteflite01 (The End of MYT) was an absolute disgrace and the resulting discussions were clearly about an airline. Why was the thread not moved immediately? I have no qualms about posts and discussions on PPRuNe about MYT or MT or any other company.
I accept my first post on PPRuNe did not use the most diplomatic language, it was not intended too. I and many of my colleagues do not have any “paranoid delusions” about the power of PPRuNe, but I note you also accept that the media use the forums. No one, least of all I or Kinsman is blaming PPRuNe for anything. All we are asking for is fair play, unbiased umpiring and a neutral stance to be made by you and the moderators.
My post has obviously hit a raw nerve. Thomson Holidays results can be found and downloaded from www.companieshouse.co.uk as can the results of any UK company, either UK owned or by an overseas company. Please do not try to pretend they are not British companies. In the fullness of time we may all be European.
I knew when posting it, it would upset a lot of people. I also knew that I would take a lot of flak. We in MYT have taken a huge amount of grossly unfair stick from all sections of the media and on PPRuNe. Your response only confirms my view that some of the PPRuNe administrators, along with certain sections of the media, competitor companies and other individuals, including pilots, would like MT to fail. I decided it was time to fight back.
Perhaps a responsible journalist or the Sunday Times Insight team would care to do an unbiased, in depth investigation into the financial situation of the whole of UK airline and tour inclusive industry. I am sure that the ensuing article would be enlightening and I repeat that all I am asking for is fair and balanced treatment. I do not expect any section of the media is going to ignore MT’s past, current and future situation.
I fully accept that MT has gone through and is going through an extremely difficult period in its history and has some major hurdles still to over come to ensure survival. We are not out of the woods yet, but trees are being cut down.
As I have asked you privately, I now ask you publicly to move this thread back to its rightful place on Rumour and News.
I do not believe you should state publicly that you are fed up with MYT pilots. In your position and with this toy set of yours, which you now run as a business, you should keep your position and views private.
Your reply clearly indicates your bias and thus the methods being used to attempt to bury this thread. Firstly, it was moved very quickly from News and Rumours to this secondary / minor forum and the link, which appeared at first to link this thread to the latest threads on the PPRuNe home page was discontinued. You have also allowed the original thread by Niteflite01 to continue unabated on Rumour and News and have only just moved it to page 2 of Airlines, Airports and Routes. Furthermore, the title was only changed when it became apparent that MYT was still flying. The beginning of that thread by Niteflite01 (The End of MYT) was an absolute disgrace and the resulting discussions were clearly about an airline. Why was the thread not moved immediately? I have no qualms about posts and discussions on PPRuNe about MYT or MT or any other company.
I accept my first post on PPRuNe did not use the most diplomatic language, it was not intended too. I and many of my colleagues do not have any “paranoid delusions” about the power of PPRuNe, but I note you also accept that the media use the forums. No one, least of all I or Kinsman is blaming PPRuNe for anything. All we are asking for is fair play, unbiased umpiring and a neutral stance to be made by you and the moderators.
My post has obviously hit a raw nerve. Thomson Holidays results can be found and downloaded from www.companieshouse.co.uk as can the results of any UK company, either UK owned or by an overseas company. Please do not try to pretend they are not British companies. In the fullness of time we may all be European.
I knew when posting it, it would upset a lot of people. I also knew that I would take a lot of flak. We in MYT have taken a huge amount of grossly unfair stick from all sections of the media and on PPRuNe. Your response only confirms my view that some of the PPRuNe administrators, along with certain sections of the media, competitor companies and other individuals, including pilots, would like MT to fail. I decided it was time to fight back.
Perhaps a responsible journalist or the Sunday Times Insight team would care to do an unbiased, in depth investigation into the financial situation of the whole of UK airline and tour inclusive industry. I am sure that the ensuing article would be enlightening and I repeat that all I am asking for is fair and balanced treatment. I do not expect any section of the media is going to ignore MT’s past, current and future situation.
I fully accept that MT has gone through and is going through an extremely difficult period in its history and has some major hurdles still to over come to ensure survival. We are not out of the woods yet, but trees are being cut down.
As I have asked you privately, I now ask you publicly to move this thread back to its rightful place on Rumour and News.
Hey chill NACUD, the steam is fogging your glasses!
Danny didn't state publicly that he was
'fed up with MYT pilots'
he said he was
' fed up with ACCUSATIONS from a FEW naive MYT pilots'
I don't work for either company, and I sure as heck don't believe everything written on the forums because so much of it is way wide of what I know to be reality, and as we are warned when we enter the site the views expressed by contributors might be might be very biased for all manner of reasons.
Fact is everyone has known the MYT group has had troubles for quite a while, NOW it appears that a group previously considered sound also has problems. I am quite sure that the press boys and girls will pick up on this and make it news. The trouble is MYT will almost certainly get a mention as well in any article simply because they were in trouble first.
Unfair? Sure it is, but that's life and yelling at Danny and others wont change it, nor will seeing demons in every posting or move of posting.
The best news for everyone is that the industry starts to recover and ALL airlines become stable employers again.
My own view is that this is unlikely and that the industry will undergo yet more change before it settles down.
Danny didn't state publicly that he was
'fed up with MYT pilots'
he said he was
' fed up with ACCUSATIONS from a FEW naive MYT pilots'
I don't work for either company, and I sure as heck don't believe everything written on the forums because so much of it is way wide of what I know to be reality, and as we are warned when we enter the site the views expressed by contributors might be might be very biased for all manner of reasons.
Fact is everyone has known the MYT group has had troubles for quite a while, NOW it appears that a group previously considered sound also has problems. I am quite sure that the press boys and girls will pick up on this and make it news. The trouble is MYT will almost certainly get a mention as well in any article simply because they were in trouble first.
Unfair? Sure it is, but that's life and yelling at Danny and others wont change it, nor will seeing demons in every posting or move of posting.
The best news for everyone is that the industry starts to recover and ALL airlines become stable employers again.
My own view is that this is unlikely and that the industry will undergo yet more change before it settles down.
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Actually Danny, your behaviour fits very well with the definition of censorship. The Oxford English Dictionary specifies that it is the practice of suppressing certain material. And whilst shipping the Thomson thread straight off to a minor PPRuNe forum isn’t erasing it, it certainly is suppressing it. Especially when you let the MyTravel thread fester on the main PPRuNe forum for a month; and leave it titled ‘The End of MYT’ for a good period too.
We’re not blaming PPRuNe for directing the media. We are blaming PPRuNe for telling whoever reads PPRuNe that MYT are going out of business. After that a-hole niteflite01’s original post, so many crew were ringing in to ask it they still had a job that we had to bring people in over the weekend to man phones and field their questions.
So because Thomson/Britannia are owned by Germans, it’s off limits for PPRuNe? Get real. MyTravel UK and TUI UK are both the UK arms of pan-national groups.
The people who make the biggest difference are the potential customers. We’re not stupid enough to think that banking syndicates are influenced by inaccurate negative reporting, but the public definitely are. And if the public stop buying holidays from a tour operator then the end result is still as bad.
There’s no way MyTravel is going under.
Trying to blame PPRuNE for somehow directing the media and highlighting MYT's problems is pathetic
This thread is NOT about a major UK tour operator.
the people who make the real decisions are the banks and the major investors (the ones who make a difference)
There’s no way MyTravel is going under.
Guys................ Chill
As u can read from the title of this Forum its "Airlines Airports and Routes".
As we are all aware MYT is an Airline which im sure everyone wants to see grow and flourish like any carrier.
In fairness this forum will give you the chance to discuss the various discussion as Rumours and News is a very busy forum and it may slip to page 2 or 3 in 2 hours.
Nobody moves threads from pages to pages on a forum, when a certain amount of threads appear they may move to the next page in succession automatically.
Hogg
As u can read from the title of this Forum its "Airlines Airports and Routes".
As we are all aware MYT is an Airline which im sure everyone wants to see grow and flourish like any carrier.
In fairness this forum will give you the chance to discuss the various discussion as Rumours and News is a very busy forum and it may slip to page 2 or 3 in 2 hours.
Nobody moves threads from pages to pages on a forum, when a certain amount of threads appear they may move to the next page in succession automatically.
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Hogg: You’re totally missing our point here. We know that “Nobody moves threads from pages to pages on a forum” - we’re talking about moderators moving threads from one forum to another. Namely, MyTravel’s financial problems being allowed to sit in Rumours & News for a month, whilst TUI’s financial problems were quickly moved off to Airlines Airports and Routes.
A bit of even-handedness is all we ask.
A bit of even-handedness is all we ask.
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Hey Danny Boy, while you have your dictionary out look up "Nepotism"
NACUD, thank you for your measured and factual reply. Perhaps more people should check your link and read the real truth for themselves. That includes you boys and girls from the press !!! www.companieshouse.co.uk
All I would like to add is that the mud slinging (from every quarter) failed to bring MT down. Indeed it has had the opposite effect, camaraderie and resolve in the face of adversity is higher than I have seen it in 10 years. I hope that when others suffer, as they will, that we are a little more magnanimous. What goes around comes around, and methinks there are a few more black holes shortly to be uncovered at an airline near you.
ps. Mr Moderator.........just to keep you in the loop, neither thread ever moved from page 1 on rumours & news !
NACUD, thank you for your measured and factual reply. Perhaps more people should check your link and read the real truth for themselves. That includes you boys and girls from the press !!! www.companieshouse.co.uk
All I would like to add is that the mud slinging (from every quarter) failed to bring MT down. Indeed it has had the opposite effect, camaraderie and resolve in the face of adversity is higher than I have seen it in 10 years. I hope that when others suffer, as they will, that we are a little more magnanimous. What goes around comes around, and methinks there are a few more black holes shortly to be uncovered at an airline near you.
ps. Mr Moderator.........just to keep you in the loop, neither thread ever moved from page 1 on rumours & news !