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Flybe-V2

Old 19th Apr 2022, 13:28
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest
A big difference between discussing and constantly finding anything to ďslagĒ off about the airline. If people donít like me telling them to shut up etc I suggest they stop saying the same things again and again aka Flybe 1. I have to admit I donít like the new cabin and would have preferred beige seats and purple mood lighting but hey ho.
Again just because you donít want to hear or read it doesnít mean everyone has to agree and if we donít we get called names or told to shut up. I could equally write shut up about it but then thereís no value in the forum.

Letís keep it civil.
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 14:20
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest
If people don’t like me telling them to shut up etc I suggest they stop saying the same things again and again aka Flybe 1.
They say the same things again and again because they hold an honest belief that they're true. You saying "shut up" isn't going to win anyone over, and is, as you well know, only going to get you banned. We can't add anything new to the past arguments at the mo, so let's see how things pan out operationally and commercially. Let's debate the wisdom of their route choices, their finances and their strategy and, as part of that, let's be careful some folk don't get away with rewriting history.

Your username is an interesting one, I bet you aren't a huge fan of Eastern? That's how some people feel about flybe2.
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 14:33
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
They say the same things again and again because they hold an honest belief that they're true. You saying "shut up" isn't going to win anyone over, and is, as you well know, only going to get you banned. We can't add anything new to the past arguments at the mo, so let's see how things pan out operationally and commercially. Let's debate the wisdom of their route choices, their finances and their strategy and, as part of that, let's be careful some folk don't get away with rewriting history.

Your username is an interesting one, I bet you aren't a huge fan of Eastern? That's how some people feel about flybe2.
You've got that totally wrong, he never worked for Air Southwest as he will tell you. Well done
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 14:39
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Originally Posted by bean
You've got that totally wrong, he never worked for Air Southwest as he will tell you. Well done
By the way, i don't know him, i've just read his knowledgable professional posts from the past
In case anyone tries to dredge up previousy highly inaccurate posts. I am not posting under multiple names and therefore i am not Airsouthwest but, i do agree with a lot of what he says
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 20:32
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Originally Posted by bean
By the way, i don't know him, i've just read his knowledgable professional posts from the past
In case anyone tries to dredge up previousy highly inaccurate posts. I am not posting under multiple names and therefore i am not Airsouthwest but, i do agree with a lot of what he says
The problem with this thread seems to be a select few going back to the same points... arguing over essentially ego / difference of opinion even when the conversation moves on. Lets face it theres going to be a lot of talk both pro and con like all threads on here. Theres going to be critique of what they're doing or not doing etc. But at the end of the day this is a forum to discuss rumours etc.

So to that end...

What have the loads been like over the weekend? Plus when are the next tranche of Aircraft being delivered, I see theres still a Dash at Exeter, is this pre delivery MX? It is somewhat funny how flybe are using Exeter Aerospace that are now owned by Dublin Aerospace that has the same owner as Emerald. Hopefully the quality of the product Exeter Aerospace is somewhat higher than that previously offered.
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 20:35
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Wanna, there's one at Malta on a recently signed contract as well
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Old 19th Apr 2022, 20:56
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I did see that on Medavia Socials, good to see they're back maintaining the Dash after they ceased operating their own. If youve ever been to their facility in Malta its very impressive.
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Old 20th Apr 2022, 07:37
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest
It's only temporary, Flybe have signed a contract with Medavia in Malta so all their aircraft will fly out there for maintenance. I don't understand why they've chosen them (although they are known to be very good) as Exeter makes a more logical choice, especially for emergency diverts aka 2019 left aileron cable snapping.
It will all come down to cost and availability. This is probably an area where the clean slate idea rings true, go where you can get the best value MX. Medavia are well regarded and part owned by Air Nostrum (or the group that owns them). Exeter may also not have the capacity, its always incredibly busy there, more so than before.

Re the emergency divert, if flybe won't be flying to Exeter diverting might no be so easy, no ground handling contract, no assistance etc. Reality is most stuff can and does get fixed on the line. Not many airlines had or have the luxury of a true in-house 145 and large hangar facility. Plus im sure the crew would rather position to Malta than Exeter!!
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Old 20th Apr 2022, 07:43
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Originally Posted by wanna
It will all come down to cost and availability. This is probably an area where the clean slate idea rings true, go where you can get the best value MX. Medavia are well regarded and part owned by Air Nostrum (or the group that owns them). Exeter may also not have the capacity, its always incredibly busy there, more so than before.

Re the emergency divert, if flybe won't be flying to Exeter diverting might no be so easy, no ground handling contract, no assistance etc. Reality is most stuff can and does get fixed on the line. Not many airlines had or have the luxury of a true in-house 145 and large hangar facility. Plus im sure the crew would rather position to Malta than Exeter!!
Nice one Wanna. Bit of humour whiÁh this thread sorely needs
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Old 20th Apr 2022, 07:45
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Just before the previous incarnation of Flybe went under, we sent a few frames to Medavia (JECP for example...) for heavy checks.

At the time, it was said to have been more cost effective to fly a Dash 8 the 3hr+ block time to Malta than it was to conduct the maintenance in house...
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Old 20th Apr 2022, 15:33
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Originally Posted by brian_dromey
Is this a long-term proposition? I saw it on the inaugural flight reviews and hoped it would be permanent, but assumed that it might have been for the publicity flights? Or is this temporary until they get some sort of Buy-On-Board infrastructure rolled out?
Standard Class on the train wouldnít give refreshments, but First Class usually would. I guess it depends who they feel they are competing with and which passengers they want to attract?
Interesting point . I can imagine it to be permanent on the Domestic routes and perhaps the AMS , but what about the slog that will be SOT/BHX - Avignon and SOT- Toulon ?
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Old 24th Apr 2022, 16:31
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I can't think that the CAA has got any problem provided that the AOC holder has adequate oversight of its contracted maintenance activities and the contracts are in place with the line maintenance provider - which they would both have to be as a basic matter of compliance. It's perfectly fine for an operator to contract out all of its line maintenance if it wished to - as many do.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 08:56
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest
It was probably cost effective due to lower taxes, cheaper labour etc. Flybe have also signed STS Birmingham to carry out some line and base maintenance. I do however, wonder what the CAA make of all of this as I know they don't exactly like too much third party work within airline ops following the Manx2 crash.
Its very common for smaller airlines to contract out even their line MX let alone MRO work. The airline (AOC) would still have a CAM, Quality etc but the actual stamp is often contracted out to a third party. STS and Medavia are both reputable organisations and both will have to hold UK CAA approvals rather than the historic EASA approvals, so the CAA arguably should now have much greater oversight. The Manx issue was to do with aircraft operators, IE manx2 had no AOC or even any quality / compliance / Safety of its own but positioned itself as having all. Each AOC that Manx2 used was then responsible for ensuring they complied etc.

The other thing to consider is whether Exeter Aerospace even wanted the business, they're not short of work, Logan, Eastern, Cityflyer, Emerald etc all going through there. ATR is the new Dash at EGTE. Its possible they turned the offer down and Flybe went looking elsewhere. Another benefit of the new business is making the best choice rather than sticking with what they knew as 'thats what we've always done'.
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 11:07
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Originally Posted by wanna
Its very common for smaller airlines to contract out even their line MX let alone MRO work. The airline (AOC) would still have a CAM, Quality etc but the actual stamp is often contracted out to a third party. STS and Medavia are both reputable organisations and both will have to hold UK CAA approvals rather than the historic EASA approvals, so the CAA arguably should now have much greater oversight. The Manx issue was to do with aircraft operators, IE manx2 had no AOC or even any quality / compliance / Safety of its own but positioned itself as having all. Each AOC that Manx2 used was then responsible for ensuring they complied etc.

The other thing to consider is whether Exeter Aerospace even wanted the business, they're not short of work, Logan, Eastern, Cityflyer, Emerald etc all going through there. ATR is the new Dash at EGTE. Its possible they turned the offer down and Flybe went looking elsewhere. Another benefit of the new business is making the best choice rather than sticking with what they knew as 'thats what we've always done'.
From other sources, it was the lessors who placed this particular aircraft with Medavia prior to delivery. Flybe merely provided the crew
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Old 25th Apr 2022, 11:31
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As others have also pointed out, it is very cost effective to fly a dash and crew to Medavia, get the work done and return the A/C compared with other MROs, and STS is just another name on the former MAEL Hangar, with may of the same engineers (many also ex-Flybe) who've worked on these aircraft for decades.

STS also has the benefit that at BHX the planes are at home base/HQ so if there's a problem and it needed management attention, then it's just over the road.. & the upside to having a physical airframe nearby in a hangar in case of AOG elsewhere on the network are not to be sniffed at.
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Old 28th Apr 2022, 23:31
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Today saw an increment in the Flybe schedules, now up to seven routes requiring three airframes to fulfil, vs. the initial one-aircraft, two-route launch a fortnight ago.
LBA, LHR, AMS & EMA are now added to BHX, BHD & GLA on the network.

All 24 sectors scheduled for today were successfully completed, but looks as though they have struggled with timekeeping – only 5 out of the 24 landed on time or less than 20 minutes late, according to FR24 data.
With time loss cumulating through the day, the two aircraft with no recovery opportunity in their schedules ended up running 1.5 - 2 hours late by evening.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 07:35
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Originally Posted by northsands
Today saw an increment in the Flybe schedules, now up to seven routes requiring three airframes to fulfil, vs. the initial one-aircraft, two-route launch a fortnight ago.
LBA, LHR, AMS & EMA are now added to BHX, BHD & GLA on the network.

All 24 sectors scheduled for today were successfully completed, but looks as though they have struggled with timekeeping Ė only 5 out of the 24 landed on time or less than 20 minutes late, according to FR24 data.
With time loss cumulating through the day, the two aircraft with no recovery opportunity in their schedules ended up running 1.5 - 2 hours late by evening.
Sounds just like the old Flybe.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 07:40
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No sign of the MAN announcement - I wonder why
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 08:07
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With time loss cumulating through the day, the two aircraft with no recovery opportunity in their schedules ended up running 1.5 - 2 hours late by evening
I was following this, and indeed the aircraft that ended the day at LBA and BHX were very late getting there (the one that finished in BHD was only about 30 mins down). 8 sector days, so little room for recovery, as said.

Lets hope that some of this was down to "first day publicity" (various coverage of this on social) delaying turnarounds etc and that things get better quickly.

Update: this mornings 2 arrivals into LHR (from LBA and BHD) appear to be on schedule, but the first BHX-BHD sector is showing a 1hr 30min departure delay

Last edited by Wycombe; 29th Apr 2022 at 08:28.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 09:39
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Originally Posted by Wycombe
I was following this, and indeed the aircraft that ended the day at LBA and BHX were very late getting there (the one that finished in BHD was only about 30 mins down). 8 sector days, so little room for recovery, as said.

Lets hope that some of this was down to "first day publicity" (various coverage of this on social) delaying turnarounds etc and that things get better quickly.

Update: this mornings 2 arrivals into LHR (from LBA and BHD) appear to be on schedule, but the first BHX-BHD sector is showing a 1hr 30min departure delay
With the best will in the world at the moment due to staff shortages all over the U.K maintaining an on time schedule is somewhat of a miracle. Whilst they have 'their own' handling at BHX elsewhere they're relying on Swissport who have struggled to ramp up staff levels to meet demand. No doubt the crews and management of flybe are trying their best to keep things on time, but when you're relying on a 3rd party handling agent who is struggling its never going to be ideal.... combine that with 8 sectors and well delays happen.
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