Flybe-V2

[willy wombat]

I'm very sorry for everyone working for FlyBe v 2 but this company does not deserve to survive.

[ATNotts]

I might be a little late coming to this conclusion, but I believe I have worked out what Flybe's policy is when it comes to its route network.

No.1 priority is clearly using slots they have at LHR. No.2 priority is trying to sort out where they have the best possible chance of turning a profit on a route from BHD. So, having established that BHD-IOM wasn't a goer they canned that, and looked for another city they could reasonably expect a return on. That latest wheeze is BHD-NCL where they hope to turn an operating profit and also use the LHR slots that have been vacated by the cancellation of IOM-LHR. The only possible explanation of how that kind of a policy is supposed to be viable is that they are being paid a king's ransom to operate into LHR, as others have been claiming for some time now.

Following their apparent strategy one wonders why they didn't consider adding extra rotations on BHD-EMA and then running EMA-LHR-EMA, surely a better prospect that rocking up on yet another new route for them in BHD-NCL. If they didn't fancy that idea, then perhaps fitting BHX-LHR-BHX into the existing BHX-BHD operation might sound better.

Perhaps I am being a tad cynical, but its hard not to be the way things are going. Has Liz Truss landed the Route Development Director post?

[SWBKCB]

The only possible explanation of how that kind of a policy is supposed to be viable is that they are being paid a king's ransom to operate into LHR, as others have been claiming for some time now.

Don't follow this, who would be paying them to operate into LHR - do you mean that they are hoping to be paid a king's ransom for their slots at some future point?

[willy wombat]

I think several of us, including me, have long thought that the whole Flybe v 2 is a slot scam. We just can't quite see how they think it's going to work.

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Don't follow this, who would be paying them to operate into LHR - do you mean that they are hoping to be paid a king's ransom for their slots at some future point?

I don't understand the logic either, but if they aren't being paid (an unkind person might use a different word) to operate what are, possibly with the exception of NQY/LHR, totally unviable routes what other explanation could there be? As #Skipness One Foxtrot wrote above, where is the rationale for going up against an established BA operation from NCL to LHR. There simply isn't one that I can think of, and I am prepared to concede that there must be some level of expertise at the heart of their route planning strategy so there must be another revenue stream apart from selling tickets.

I think several of us, including me, have long thought that the whole Flybe v 2 is a slot scam. We just can't quite see how they think it's going to work.

If it were simply a "slot scam" then why operate any routes at all that didn't include the apparently necessary LHR slots? It must be more than just the slots, otherwise they wouldn't need the quantity of airframes they have taken on, along with the staffing costs.

[Harold77]

Instead of Newcastle, they would have been better off using Teesside. Then they could have Heathrow route to themselves since Logan pulled route earlier this year.

[highwideandugly]

Newcastle to Cardiff or as mentioned London Gatwick. Much better options I would think than Heathrow?

Do airports actually have any say in these routes?

Problem with Teesside is that the mayor has spent/is spending millions on railways stations in the Teesside area….and it is definitely quicker to catch a train now..and so much cheaper?

[cavokblues]

Next Monday flying out and returning on the Tuesday is £141.

The train at similar times is £76.00

Factor in the journey to Heathrow, check in etc and I think the train with a journey time of 2hr 53 looks very appealing.

I don't get the thinking behind this other than just trying to fly to LHR for the sake of it now IOM isn't happening. Much better options out there IMO.

[willy wombat]

[QUOTE=ATNotts;1132377



If it were simply a "slot scam" then why operate any routes at all that didn't include the apparently necessary LHR slots? It must be more than just the slots, otherwise they wouldn't need the quantity of airframes they have taken on, along with the staffing costs.[/QUOTE]

I take your point but I have never been as befuddled by an airline start up / restart as this one and keep convincing myself that there must be something more to this than rank incompetence.

[Alteagod]

If I was to pluck City pairs out-of-the-air from BHD for BE to try and lose money on it would be
NWI
BOH
SEN
HUM
ORK
SNN
CFN

[ATNotts]

I could add Kirkwall and Sumburgh to that list but we're just getting silly now!

MME wasn't such a daft idea from BHD and as was pointed out there's no competition for an LHR slot sitter so they might even garner some meaningful revenue from seat sales.

[SWBKCB]

MME wasn't such a daft idea from BHD and as was pointed out there's no competition for an LHR slot sitter so they might even garner some meaningful revenue from seat sales.

Loganair are on MME-BHD and aren't pulling up any trees with an a/c half the size of the Dash. MME also has shorter train times to London than NCL. And is BE really competing with BA on NCL-LHR? Are they going to make money with a sinlge daily late afternoon flight from anywhere, let alone MME?

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Loganair are on MME-BHD and aren't pulling up any trees with an a/c half the size of the Dash. MME also has shorter train times to London than NCL. And is BE really competing with BA on NCL-LHR? Are they going to make money with a sinlge daily late afternoon flight from anywhere, let alone MME?

The answer to your final question is surely a resounding NO!

[BHD2BFS]

Surely the company is losing a vast amount of money.
even for a start up how long can investors keep pumping money in and see a return anytime soon ?

[BA318]

I’d just try and offer another BFS-LHR. At least then they would be at 3 daily on that and it makes them a bit more competitive. Or otherwise find somewhere with no LHR connection so at least they are the only option - Guernsey perhaps or Liverpool.

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by BA318

I’d just try and offer another BFS-LHR. At least then they would be at 3 daily on that and it makes them a bit more competitive. Or otherwise find somewhere with no LHR connection so at least they are the only option - Guernsey perhaps or Liverpool.

You meant BHD I imagine, and yes, that would have been a more logical decision.

[BA318]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

You meant BHD I imagine, and yes, that would have been a more logical decision.

yes sorry.

[southamptonavgeek]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

If it were simply a "slot scam" then why operate any routes at all that didn't include the apparently necessary LHR slots? It must be more than just the slots, otherwise they wouldn't need the quantity of airframes they have taken on, along with the staffing costs.

I am not usually one to entertain the possibility of a "slot scam", but would it be possible that Cyrus were trying to recoup their losses from the original Flybe through two schemes - the selling of the Heathrow slots and of the airline entity itself once a slot sale was achieved? Thus, even if one was to be unsuccessful (likely the latter!) they would still have made a respectable sum.

[N123JB]

This is not a serious outfit. It's a group of investors who've been lucky enough to keep hold of an airline brand, some nice slots as LHR, and some neat little incentives from UK regional airports. As soon as the availability of LHR slots goes back to how it was pre-COVID, these guys will begin asset stripping: make a tidy profit on the sale of the slots and put all the bits they don't want into liquidation.

[Sharklet7]

Originally Posted by Alteagod

If I was to pluck City pairs out-of-the-air from BHD for BE to try and lose money on it would be
NWI
BOH
SEN
HUM
ORK
SNN
CFN

Do you not think Southend or Cork would have potential in the future? Have heard discussions of another turbo prop operation considering Belfast to Cork route