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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:55
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Originally Posted by Flightrider
That's rather harsh.

You either need IOSA accreditation or to be fully audited for a codeshare with any major carrier, and for most, IOSA is the standard.

There is an additional process for Lufthansa Group which is a bar higher than IOSA.

And the p**s poor income from some of the connecting partners with bmi (we're talking about the mainline airline sold to BA in 2012 here) was a major problem. They needed the pax volume but didn't get sufficient income to accompany it. There is more than a grain of truth in what's being said.

The previous posters might not have the terminology bang on, but the broad outline of what they are saying is a fair reflection of reality.
I also worked for BMI, so I am fully aware of what went on with codeshares.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 08:13
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Codeshares make sense for a lot of airlines. If you've a lot of high yielding pax up front paying for a premium service you might as well get £50 for seats which would otherwise be going empty.

Whether a codeshare would be appropriate for the current Flybe at this moment in time is up for debate.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 09:12
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
Codeshares make sense for a lot of airlines. If you've a lot of high yielding pax up front paying for a premium service you might as well get £50 for seats which would otherwise be going empty.

Whether a codeshare would be appropriate for the current Flybe at this moment in time is up for debate.
The trouble is BMI allowed United unfettered access.

They were booking large groups months in advance.
​​advance, leaving flights full when business traffic tried to book.

We're talking groups sometimes of 80, some flights to LHR had ULDs which had BD to UA transfer baggage.
On the inbound often this luggage would not make it leaving BD to pick up the delivery tab.

​​​​​​
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 09:50
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
Codeshares make sense for a lot of airlines. If you've a lot of high yielding pax up front paying for a premium service you might as well get £50 for seats which would otherwise be going empty.

Whether a codeshare would be appropriate for the current Flybe at this moment in time is up for debate.
Codeshares also need a point. What benefit is there for Emirates or United etc in over half of Flybeís network. Offering a UA code on Belfast-EMA is pointless.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 10:08
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Originally Posted by BA318
Codeshares also need a point. What benefit is there for Emirates or United etc in over half of Flybeís network. Offering a UA code on Belfast-EMA is pointless.
Doubt would see codeshare on that route unless for some reason a codeshare partner started flying out of EMA. If codeshares do happen likely to see it on routes into AMS/ LHR/ MAN/ EDI
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 12:25
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Originally Posted by euromanxdude
Doubt would see codeshare on that route unless for some reason a codeshare partner started flying out of EMA. If codeshares do happen likely to see it on routes into AMS/ LHR/ MAN/ EDI
Thing is if they codeshare through AMS then Skyteam is an odd idea given that KLM already connect most of the UK anyway through there already
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 15:14
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How much capital does Flybe have to keep it going through the winter and where can I find this information? With tour operators people are protected by ABTA but how am I protected with a scheduled carrier like Flybe? I am not booking with them unless I can be sure they're OK financially. I often use the BHD-SOU route but haven't yet tried the new version. Last time I booked Flybe I got stung and still don't have my £.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 17:40
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Originally Posted by Sharklet_321
How much capital does Flybe have to keep it going through the winter and where can I find this information? With tour operators people are protected by ABTA but how am I protected with a scheduled carrier like Flybe? I am not booking with them unless I can be sure they're OK financially. I often use the BHD-SOU route but haven't yet tried the new version. Last time I booked Flybe I got stung and still don't have my £.
pay using a credit card. Simples
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 18:09
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Originally Posted by willy wombat
pay using a credit card. Simples
Section 75 on credit cards only covers purchases over £100 so cheap tickets might not be covered.
https://www.moneysupermarket.com/cre...rd-protection/
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 20:42
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Originally Posted by tictack67
A bold accusation.

I await your evidence to the contrary.

If codeshares where that easy airlines would be trading like Amazon marketplace.

As the Marketing airline BA would have to rebook any Flybe cancellations or missed connections (including in higher class if not Y).

As for the fixed amount, you of course will be aware there are many types of codeshare since you've been here since 2017 and posted 6 times.

Of course you'll know why Iberia put a code share flight number on LHR to JFK but Loganair don't, despite both codesharing into LHR

There are several types of code sharing arrangements:
  • Block space codeshare: A commercial (marketing) airline purchases a fixed number of seats from the administrating (operating/prime) carrier. A fixed price is typically paid, and the seats are kept away from the administrating carrier's inventory. The marketing airline decides on its own which booking classes the seats are sold in (the block of seats are optimized just like another aircraft cabin).
  • Free flow codeshare: The airlines' inventory and reservation systems communicate in real-time by messaging, commonly IATA AIRIMP/PADIS messaging (TTY and EDIFACT). A booking class mapping is defined between the airlines. No seats are locked to any of the airlines, and any airline can sell any number of seats.
  • Capped free flow: Basically the same as above, but capping (maximum number of seats) is defined for each of the marketing airlines participating in the codeshare with the administrating carrier.

Any 2 airlines can enter into a codeshare without IOSA accreditation or a safety audit. Most airlines do go through this process, but itís not mandatory.

Nor do they need to meet/exceed customer service standards. How could an operator of a 20 seat prop aircraft match a 787.

Iíll take back the comment on £50 codeshare yield as canít prove it- seems low.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 21:03
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I'm beginning to think airsouthwest (who has disappeared and deleted many postings) has re-appeared under a new username...

Any 2 airlines can enter into a codeshare without IOSA accreditation or a safety audit. Most airlines do go through this process, but itís not mandatory.
If you are in IOSA - which virtually every major airline is - then you can only codeshare with another IOSA airline or if you undertake a pretty comprehensive safety audit of your potential codeshare partner. If Flybe wants to codeshare with Isles of Scilly Skybus (for example) then neither are IOSA and they're free to do what they want. If Flybe wants to codeshare with KLM which is an IOSA carrier, KLM is bound by the rules of IOSA and has to either ensure Flybe itself is IOSA accredited (which it isn't) or perform a full safety audit. Same goes for almost any other major airline with whom a codeshare would be worthwhile.

It explains why there are no codeshares with Flybe as yet. You can't just go around collecting codeshares like bottle tops.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 21:38
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It explains why there are no codeshares with Flybe as yet. You can't just go around collecting codeshares like bottle tops.[/QUOTE]

That is one possible explanation.

Another is the big players perhaps donít want a codeshare with them. To support this concept , put codeshare to one side for a moment - Flybe have no interline agreements either, which carry most of benefits of codeshare (discounted fares, through checked bag, seat assignment, online distribution, disruption protection etc) and IOSA isnít required. Old flybe had numerous interlines.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 22:09
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IOSA accreditation takes time and flybe have only been operating since April remember. The management there fully recognise this and IOSA is being worked on. Look for full accreditation to be in place first quarter 2023. There are plenty of carriers that will be interested especially with the LHR/AMS operations.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 22:22
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If Flybe were to codeshare or interline... would they perhaps be better off doing it with airlines that fly to Birmingham, rather than Heathrow or Amsterdam ?
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 22:29
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Originally Posted by TartinTon
IOSA accreditation takes time and flybe have only been operating since April remember. The management there fully recognise this and IOSA is being worked on. Look for full accreditation to be in place first quarter 2023. There are plenty of carriers that will be interested especially with the LHR/AMS operations.
Really? KLM have a decent network already and have rules around how many routes they can codeshare on? From memory last time wasnít it two?

Letís look at the routes:

Belfast-LHR : BA and Aer Lingus already operate it so any carrier looking for a codeshare has a choice (the two other carriers also having much more frequent flights)

AMS-LHR: BA and KLM already operate at much higher frequencies and business friendly times.

NQY-LHR: seasonal service by BA.

IOM-LHR: up against a daily Loganair flight (which already codeshares with BA and is supported by IOM gov).

Other than NQY there are more attractive partners on all their LHR routes and NQY is hardly that popular when BA with their massive network canít sustain it.

Maybe there is huge demand for airlines to buy seats on Flybe but Iím not optimistic and with the competition, Flybe will need to offer cheaper prices to win the deals which in turn is not good for profit as it must be pretty costly operating into LHR and only having 76 seats to divide the cost by.

They need to find a niche but going up against big, well established and well funded carriers is not going to work.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 08:38
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I seem to remember that Flybe Mk 1 had many cideshares on their routes, certainly from BHX on their domestic flights, Virgin and Air India were two of them, can't remember the others but on BHX-GLA and EDI there was a long list of flight numbers that appeared on the departure screens.

Of course they had a strong link with AF. I recall nearly all their flights had an AF cideshare.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 09:34
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Originally Posted by BA318
Really? KLM have a decent network already and have rules around how many routes they can codeshare on? From memory last time wasnít it two?

Letís look at the routes:

Belfast-LHR : BA and Aer Lingus already operate it so any carrier looking for a codeshare has a choice (the two other carriers also having much more frequent flights)

AMS-LHR: BA and KLM already operate at much higher frequencies and business friendly times.

NQY-LHR: seasonal service by BA.

IOM-LHR: up against a daily Loganair flight (which already codeshares with BA and is supported by IOM gov).

Other than NQY there are more attractive partners on all their LHR routes and NQY is hardly that popular when BA with their massive network canít sustain it.
Do BA code-share with members of other alliances?
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 09:34
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Originally Posted by BA318
Really? KLM have a decent network already and have rules around how many routes they can codeshare on? From memory last time wasnít it two?

Letís look at the routes:

Belfast-LHR : BA and Aer Lingus already operate it so any carrier looking for a codeshare has a choice (the two other carriers also having much more frequent flights)

AMS-LHR: BA and KLM already operate at much higher frequencies and business friendly times.

NQY-LHR: seasonal service by BA.

IOM-LHR: up against a daily Loganair flight (which already codeshares with BA and is supported by IOM gov).

Other than NQY there are more attractive partners on all their LHR routes and NQY is hardly that popular when BA with their massive network canít sustain it.

Maybe there is huge demand for airlines to buy seats on Flybe but Iím not optimistic and with the competition, Flybe will need to offer cheaper prices to win the deals which in turn is not good for profit as it must be pretty costly operating into LHR and only having 76 seats to divide the cost by.

They need to find a niche but going up against big, well established and well funded carriers is not going to work.
It might surprise you to find that the world doesn't revolve around BA.....there are plenty of other carriers to share with.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 10:02
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Do BA code-share with members of other alliances?
yes. Most carriers also code share outside their alliances.

BA says this: ďAlongside British Airways flights, we list many codeshare services on ba.com operated by our oneworld partners as well as Aer Lingus, airBaltic, Bangkok Airways, China Eastern, Fiji Airways, Kenya Airways, Loganair, Vistara and Vueling Airlines.Ē
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 10:06
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Originally Posted by TartinTon
It might surprise you to find that the world doesn't revolve around BA.....there are plenty of other carriers to share with.
Iím well aware of that and didnít specifically say BA was the only choice. Equally having 15 codeshares still wonít save you if everything else isnít right. Look at Flybe1 or BMI.

Personally I donít think the LHR routes will survive regardless. The other routes are probably possible to survive without codeshares just on local demand.
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