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Flybe-V2

Old 22nd Aug 2022, 17:49
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Originally Posted by CabinCrewe View Post
Canít imagine LM happy about BE on their now established EDI/GLA-SOU route, though choice of cramped narrow but fast Emb145 vs Noisy slightly slower D8
or £200 one way versus £50!!
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 17:55
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They appear to try to reclaim what they originally lost. However with their current reliability is a business passenger going to pay a little bit extra on the company credit card to be assured their flight won't be delayed or cancelled? Why feel the need to go head to head on the majority of routes when profitability is hard enough at the best of times on regional routes
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 17:59
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https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/...-fleet-expands
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 18:39
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Originally Posted by BA318 View Post
Indeed. Iíve not been the biggest fan of their strategy but from day one Iíve thought NQY is a better option. Does Flybe entering to LHR have any effect on the PSO to LGW? Why subsidise a LGW link if LHR is being served?
That would be my impression too, why would you subsidise a route if someone is willing to operate it commercially. Trying to knock Eastern off it and then win the contract next time it comes back out to tender - which will be when they inevitably drop it againÖ
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 20:21
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Originally Posted by CabinCrewe View Post
Canít imagine LM happy about BE on their now established EDI/GLA-SOU route, though choice of cramped narrow but fast Emb145 vs Noisy slightly slower D8
Most likely reaction is pissing themselves laughing. New competitor spreads itself thinly, spends millions, starts routes then stops them and then starts them again (MAN-BHD, BHX-EDI/GLA) and decides to spread itself even more thinly during what's looking to a nasty winter for all? Leave them to it!

Originally Posted by SKOJB View Post
or £200 one way versus £50!!
Let's see where things are by March - both airlines fares are much of a muchness that far out, but not many book that far ahead. Will the flying circus still be here by March and will it have anyone left to crew the Q4s? 6 F/Os resigned towards the back end of last week alone.

The irony of it all is that after all the protestations about how it's different from Flybe 1, it's making all the same mistakes. Including trying to pick a fight with Loganair!

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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 20:36
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Originally Posted by Saabdriver1 View Post
The irony of it all is that after all the protestations about how it's different from Flybe 1, it's making all the same mistakes. Including trying to pick a fight with Loganair!
In fairness, the mistake Flybe v1 made was picking a fight with Loganair in the Highlands and Islands where Logan couldnít afford to loose. In nearly all other cases, Flybe succeeded but things are different now. Time will tell but I imagine Flybeís Q4 seat production cost will be significantly lower than Loganís E145.

Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 22nd Aug 2022 at 21:00.
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 20:55
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...which assumes they'll stick with the E145 on those routes and not flip some ATR72 flying across. They had the advantage of E170 versus Saab 340 last time and still lost royally.
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:00
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Time will tell but I imagine Flybeís Q4 seat production cost will be significantly lower than Loganís E145.
But thatís often the argument about seat-mile costs. The larger aircraft usually has the cheaper cost, but that is only true if you assume a 100% load factor.

Extreme example;
The A380 versus the E145. Seat mile costs incomparable. But if you only have 50 passengers. Which is most cost effective to fly those 50 passengers, despite the E145ís very high seat cost compared to the A380?

Relevant example;
The DHC8-Q400 has 50% more seats than the E145. If both airlines only fill 50 seats on a competing service. And Loganair possibly command a higher price point due to more frequency, connecting pax in Scotland, BA codeshare etc. Which aircraft is more profitable? The larger, cheaper seat-mile cost aircraft, at a 75% load factor, or the smaller, ďmore-expensiveĒ aircraft at a 100% load factor, and possibility a higher average fare. Impossible to answer without information that will never be known outside each airlines commercial department.

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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:10
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Originally Posted by RW20 View Post
​​​​​​A realistic upload for SOU,but what about CDG? Obviously there isn't the interest in this destination anymore,amazing considering the frequency of such flights in recent years.
I'm sure Flybe would love to do CDG but have you tried to get a slot there? Rocking horse droppings.....
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:13
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Originally Posted by mmeteesside View Post
That would be my impression too, why would you subsidise a route if someone is willing to operate it commercially. Trying to knock Eastern off it and then win the contract next time it comes back out to tender - which will be when they inevitably drop it againÖ
Why "inevitably" drop it? They operated it for many years before Eastern came along...in fact they added SEN/LCY to their London routes as well as LGW at the time that they served 3 x daily. Not exactly the scenario that you have painted.....
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:17
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Originally Posted by Downwind_Left View Post
But thatís often the argument about seat-mile costs. The larger aircraft usually has the cheaper cost, but that is only true if you assume a 100% load factor.

Extreme example;
The A380 versus the E145. Seat mile costs incomparable. But if you only have 50 passengers. Which is most cost effective to fly those 50 passengers, despite the E145ís very high seat cost compared to the A380?

Relevant example;
The DHC8-Q400 has 50% more seats than the E145. If both airlines only fill 50 seats on a competing service. And Loganair possibly command a higher price point due to more frequency, connecting pax in Scotland, BA codeshare etc. Which aircraft is more profitable? The larger, cheaper seat-mile cost aircraft, at a 75% load factor, or the smaller, ďmore-expensiveĒ aircraft at a 100% load factor, and possibility a higher average fare. Impossible to answer without information that will never be known outside each airlines commercial department.

lower operating costs, tonnage charges and and half the cabin crew salaries.
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:28
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Have they dropped Heathrow?
from Leeds
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:41
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Originally Posted by Gsm1 View Post
Have they dropped Heathrow?
from Leeds
Yes because the passenger numbers were garbage there is no air market (BA couldn't make it work even with all their connecting possibilities) and the trains take 2 hours and cost £50......NQY is significantly different
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 21:43
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Same story as Teesside!
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Old 22nd Aug 2022, 22:21
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Originally Posted by TartinTon View Post
Why "inevitably" drop it? They operated it for many years before Eastern came along...in fact they added SEN/LCY to their London routes as well as LGW at the time that they served 3 x daily. Not exactly the scenario that you have painted.....
That's just as misleading. When Flybe was operating the Newquay PSO to Gatwick and then Heathrow (and then planned for Gatwick again), they brought in a seasonal SEN route but held the PSO with its subsidy and APD exemption from the time of its introduction. Maybe you were too busy sending blue jets around Europe at the time to notice...



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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 16:13
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Whilst some of the winter routes I did expect, on the whole is was rather disappointed! LHR-NQY for example I cannot see working against the competing PSO route to Gatwick. Flybe have also missed out Exeter yet again which did a lot for them previously, alongside Cork in Ireland which only has Aer Lingus (London Heathrow) & Ryanair (Stansted) in terms of flights to the UK. Flights from Birmingham, Edinburgh, Bristol etc have not been resumed by Emerald Airlines despite the fact those routes had a reasonably good passenger loading.
LHR-NQY will work I think because a lot of people in Cornwall want LHR for connections - NQY's social media channels have been very positive about this news since the announcement yesterday

Word from inside BEE elsewhere is that EXT is in their plans, but they wont be starting anything yet.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 17:26
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
There has been a lot of inside word from BEE though, only a few months ago there was talk of SOU become a base which still hasn't happened. I presume Eastern are operating an ATR on the PSO route so they wouldn't be able to use Heathrow now demand is back.
Would imagine SOU will be a base of some type from March next year with the added routes
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 17:36
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
There has been a lot of inside word from BEE though, only a few months ago there was talk of SOU become a base which still hasn't happened. I presume Eastern are operating an ATR on the PSO route so they wouldn't be able to use Heathrow now demand is back.
Loganair use the ATR into LHR from IOM.
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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 19:22
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There has been a lot of inside word from BEE though, only a few months ago there was talk of SOU become a base which still hasn't happened.
SOU looks to have a based aircraft from 2 March, though whether it becomes a crew base is anyone's guess. With the aircraft serving MAN, EDI and GLA (none of which are bases) then it would presumably be quite difficult to run that schedule without SOU becoming a base. They managed LBA-LHR on that basis though and look to be intending to run NQY-LHR-NQY-MAN-BHD from the BHD base - although it's not easy to see how a rested crew will be in NQY to fly the morning departure.

Talk of EXT becoming a base? I'd put that alongside the talk that they'd have 20 aircraft by the end of this year and 32 in all. Believe it when you see it!

Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
Whilst some of the winter routes I did expect, on the whole is was rather disappointed! LHR-NQY for example I cannot see working against the competing PSO route to Gatwick. Flybe have also missed out Exeter yet again which did a lot for them previously, alongside Cork in Ireland which only has Aer Lingus (London Heathrow) & Ryanair (Stansted) in terms of flights to the UK. Flights from Birmingham, Edinburgh, Bristol etc have not been resumed by Emerald Airlines despite the fact those routes had a reasonably good passenger loading.
Have another look at Ryanair's Cork network. It's significantly larger than you've mentioned nowadays and explains why Emerald (and presumably Flybe) are going anywhere near it.

Some interesting rumours out of Flybe HQ today. No-one mentioning the unmentionable....


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Old 23rd Aug 2022, 19:31
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Cork in Ireland which only has Aer Lingus (London Heathrow) & Ryanair (Stansted) in terms of flights to the UK.
just to expand on Mr Hall's comments - RYR have flights from Cork to MAN, STN, EDI, LPL, LGW, BHX and LTN tomorrow, as well as FAO, GRO, AGP, REU, AHO (!) and PMI
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