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Carlisle-3

Old 30th Jul 2022, 16:04
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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I always thought it was an obligation for the airport operator to report monthly figures to the CAA...maybe I'm wrong about this.
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Old 30th Jul 2022, 21:03
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Originally Posted by Jamesair1
The monthly pax figures for Carlisle never appeared on the CAA monthly statistics, so we shall never know
This is only true for DUB but anecdotally it did reasonably well. Figures for the other routes are available because they were compiled from the other end.

Itís not a conspiracy. For some reason a few airports with very low throughput have been excluded and this was always set out in the CAA reports over many years. Iím not sure why the CAA didnít set about correcting this, unless movements/maximum pax remained under a particular threshold. I donít know but would be interested to find out the reason
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 09:10
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar
BHD 59% 59% 62% 65% 54% 51% 42% 52% 48%
SEN 58% 58% 60% 52% 47% 42% 35% 34% 34%
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 09:13
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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I see my tweet and letter to the local MP triggered an article in the News & Star. Esken's response was bollox to be honest. "short term we plan to re-open for GA aircraft"... then why have they extended the closure during the busiest time for GA??

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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 09:54
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Some light reading.

Readers discuss future plans for Lake District Airport | News and Star

Plans for Carlisle's Lake District Airport revealed | News and Star
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 10:41
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There was once a forced closure because Stobart couldn’t recruit ATC staff. I am thinking that they have probably been sacked now so back to square one.

https://www.key.aero/article/carlisle-reopening-delayed
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 10:42
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Sounds very much like there will be no focus on scheduled passenger ops
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 08:04
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Originally Posted by LTNman
There was once a forced closure because Stobart couldn’t recruit ATC staff. I am thinking that they have probably been sacked now so back to square one.

https://www.key.aero/article/carlisle-reopening-delayed
You only need ATC staff for commercial flights (and even then you can get around that). They could quite easily open to GA and business traffic with just an ATC advisory service - as they did before Eskin/Stobart got involved with the airport.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 10:35
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I recall from somewhere that Liverpool ATC controllers are responsible for providing a remote ATC function for Doncaster arrivals and departures and I think that London City ATC is now provided remotely, so surely Carlisle could operate on the same basis.
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 04:47
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62757057

Carlisle Airport should 'give up on commercial flights'
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 06:36
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Cumbria Chamber of Commerce, which had supported plans to bring them back, has now questioned whether the county needs the service. It felt that the airport was not big enough and flights did not go where people wanted, so the train was a better option.
Flights operated to Southend, Belfast and Dublin

Slow news day
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 06:46
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Yes a slow news day.

But us amateur accountants,aviation enthusiasts (experts), consultants or whatever we call ourselves have been telling these people for years..that this would be the outcome.

Now how much would we have saved the local authorities and investors if they had listened to us in the first place!

A great little GA airport with minimal required facilities ,is and always was the best and only way forward.
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 09:32
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highwideandugly
Yes a slow news day.

But us amateur accountants,aviation enthusiasts (experts), consultants or whatever we call ourselves have been telling these people for years..that this would be the outcome.

Now how much would we have saved the local authorities and investors if they had listened to us in the first place!

A great little GA airport with minimal required facilities ,is and always was the best and only way forward.
Ah, but then Stobart wouldn't get their stroage/distribution centre would they?
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 10:25
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Yes they do - they just do what they usually do and threaten to move out of the county.

From what I saw of how the LM operation was turned round there seemed to be loads of staff. Even when paying a landing fee in a GA a/c there always seeemd to be more Stobart staff than customers. They even used to run you over to the new termainal from the old site if you wanted to use the cafe. Great customer service, but...

Be interesting to see how it compared to some of LM's more remote sites, or an operation like Isle of Scillies Skybus.
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 12:37
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On the flights I took, it all seemed very overstaffed, perhaps like they were using Southend staffing levels for each flight? Clearly, I'm an armchair CEO here, but surely one person on check-in who then handles gate duties, someone handling security, a loader and a dispatcher, were all that were needed for 3 x SAAB flights a day at most?

I still believe a daily KLM flight to AMS would work (yeah, I know AMS has plenty of issues at the moment, but if INV works, CAX would too).

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Old 3rd Sep 2022, 07:55
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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"I think it just does seem like the time now to say, 'yeah, let's stop flogging a dead horse' and put our efforts and investment elsewhere."


Given the position that this particular individual holds, these comments are very controversial, flippant and unprofessional, in my opinion.

I question the motive(s) and timing of this hit-piece, which appears to me to have been 'planted' solely on one biased mainstream media outlet (BBC) - strange how none of the local newspapers (News & Star) have picked-up on these comments yet - they usually love reporting on an airport story because it's good click-bait for them and almost always causes division amongst readers in the comments sections of their various social media pages.

Originally Posted by highwideandugly
A great little GA airport with minimal required facilities ,is and always was the best and only way forward.
I conducted a survey around Carlisle last year and the data I obtained from this seems to suggest otherwise - locals are broadly supportive of the airport and want to see commercial flights resume to places like BHD, DUB, London, the Channel Islands and IOM - most of these cannot be reached that easily by train, apart from London.

Of course CAX can't/won't survive solely on commercial flights, but they can, do and will help to bring investment into the city and county as a whole, which is very important considering that tourism is one of, if not, the biggest drivers of income for the region.

The key thing that needs to happen is to maximise revenue-generating opportunities and make better use of the land around the site.

Unfortunately, Esken seem far more focused on SEN as they've made very little effort to get CAX open since Loganair left in mid-2020 - they've just constantly extended the closure period - the latest being until the end of Oct 2022, so nothing is likely to happen until Spring 2023 at the earliest now.

Originally Posted by adg737800
I still believe a daily KLM flight to AMS would work (yeah, I know AMS has plenty of issues at the moment, but if INV works, CAX would too).
Agreed; I think CAX could potentially sustain twice-daily (morning and evening) flights to DUB in order to take advantage of the connection opportunities over to the USA, and as you suggest, a daily connection into a hub like AMS would help save locals from having to travel across to NCL, down to MAN or up to GLA.

Last edited by jmdavies86; 9th Sep 2022 at 08:34.
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Old 3rd Sep 2022, 08:25
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Agree with all of this apart from the KLM bit. The Chamber of Commerce piece is certainly very odd. The best thing that could happen to the airport is for Esken to be gone.

A small scale operation focussed on DUB, BHD, IOM would be interesting - maybe with BLK, something nearer to LM's Scottish ops rather than pretending to be a big airport.
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Old 3rd Sep 2022, 09:09
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
The best thing that could happen to the airport is for Esken to be gone.
Amen - they should be given an ultimatum by the City Council as they're only the leaseholder. Instruct them to do something within a specific timeframe or force them to move out. Problem with this is that there are likely all sorts of penalties contained within the lease agreement and revoking it would probably lead to a lengthy court battle.

Carlisle City Council also share the same view as the Chamber as they're not prepared to put any more public money into the site and I doubt they'll do anything to upset Esken as they're likely sitting comfortably just accepting the lease payment(s) for now.

Esken want to sell it, however their asking price is clearly way too high - seeking >£10m was the last I had heard, but I'm not sure it's worth that in it's current state and/or how one might go about assessing the true market value.

Originally Posted by SWBKCB
A small scale operation focussed on DUB, BHD, IOM would be interesting - maybe with BLK, something nearer to LM's Scottish ops rather than pretending to be a big airport.
Yes, CAX is in a similar situation that BLK found itself when it closed back in 2014. The local Council stepped in when the leaseholders threw the towel in and the management team have done a great job of attracting GA/private jets over the last few years and are now in a position to consider looking at commercial operations again. They also have an active MP who is campaigning to get flights going again. Lots of local people want Jet2 & Ryanair to return with flights to Portugal and Spain, which might able to happen in the future, but a small scale operation focusing on the destinations that you mention above would certainly be best in the short-term as these could/will also work at CAX.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 07:02
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This silly story has finally emerged on the News and Star website

"Certainly there shouldn't be any more public money going into it anymore, which I don't think there is," she said.


https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/2...ter-elsewhere/
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 08:21
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
This silly story has finally emerged on the News and Star website
Well they certainly took their time - interesting to note though that they haven't included the "flogging a dead horse" line.

There was a backlash on social media to her original comments that were published by the BBC last week, and she chose to double-down on them in yet another article published on Cumbria Crack on Wednesday.

"Realistically, people aren't going to get on a plane and go on holiday, they are going to have get on a little plane to go to another airport to transfer. Isn't it easier to travel to Glasgow or Manchester and just get on the plane where you're going to."
This sentence alone aptly demonstrates that she clearly doesn't know what she's talking about, or that someone else has perhaps lent on her and put her up to the job of coming out to say this.

If Esken are/were ultimately hoping to sell CAX on, then they've succeeded in significantly reducing the value of the site by allowing this woman to speak as she has.

"If someone's got a plan that will make behind the airport that will work, we're absolutely behind it, we're not anti-airport. We just think there's an awful lot of challenges and lots of reasons for it not to work - it's not the biggest priority,"
To me, this reads that she (well, the Chamber organisation that she purports to represent...!) basically wants someone else to do the hard work and she/they'll try to claim all the credit for making it a success if/when the airport flourishes afterwards.
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