Liverpool-5
Of course, when the old terminal was in use, the airport had two runways. There was sometimes a long wait between the announcement on the terraces of an arrival on the 'new' runway and it actually appearing! 
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When I worked there in the 70s, there were 3 runways ! 26/08, 35/17 & hidden behind the trees out of sight of the tower was 27/09. All three were active & made interesting times in the VCR.
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Other than critique based on economic perspectives and comparative markets ( which you ignore ) you will find not a word against the existence of Speke ( or some other name quite forgettable !)
As I said Liverpool performs a function of exporting some holiday monies (price conscious) in the main and provides a critical NHS link with Ellen Vannin !
The first is /was a function of the liberalisation of air travel within the EU single market and amplified by some market miss-calculations at MAG.
And I will continue to compare and contrast with Bristol !
Consider EasyJet has grown based aircraft and associated employment from 3 ex Go 737s to 17 based and a network of more than 70 routes whilst Liverpool stagnates at 6/7 aircraft and what Is little more than a moving of the deck chairs on routes each season .
Since the 2013 cuts in which Liverpool took a hit recovery has been near non existent , whilst others have done so.
Easyjets commitment seems pretty luck warm imho.
Ryanair similarly has a policy of deck chair route moves and just four resident frames. And in their highest years at Speke their presence was as a result of a pricing spat with MAG !
Done some research on the late 80s spears of influence debate and DAA role apparently is true apologies, however a court ruling made it unenforceable anyway followed closely by EU liberalisation. A period 4 years should be irrelevant today.
As Mr Mac said it’s pretty irrelevant today or indeed anytime since the 2000s.
Whilst MOL is certainly carrying significant numbers across the choppy sea’s, especially football fans for big games; similarly to that other place, the fact that Aer Lingus seemingly are unable to cover costs indeed make money feeding their key connections and healthy local traffic is damning imho.
It indicates the general weakness in the local and indeed regional business travel market right there and personal.
As for the snide you don’t work for Peel statement well as a businessman company owner and shareholder have access to the Peel reports and financials surprised !
Since Peel regained majority ownership they have gone through the tawdriest economic times.
The ESG rating is just 3 with pretty poor credit scores B+ against comparable businesses.
With both those considerations, and just £9 million in reserves, any investment is going to be difficult to attain, let alone be authorised by central government without further risk loaded ( basically expensive) and environmental assessments . Those organic flying thingies in the bay estuary will certainly play a part !
The proposed container, freighting business on the marsh to the south is really what Peel are after , the airport rather less so from Peel Ports own assessments.
It a land grab by any other name .
Peel are a hard nosed Ports and commercial real estate business , aviation rather less so.
When Vantage relinquished there stake relatively cheaply and so quickly after their purchase it’s a clear indication of weakness of the business and expected future returns ( dividends - none forthcoming !)
Want to compare to Newcastle it’s apples and oranges.
A regional airport with heavily range of legacy routes by KL/AF, LH/EW, BA/VY AND EK to the world !
A region with up till Brexit massive industrial and petrochemical INWARD investment and simultaneously serving as the departure point for exported holiday monies . An area equally bounded by large rural communities and a regional population within 30 mile of just 1.24 millions compared to 1.45 millions within Merseyside .
Now clearly not going to depute the elephant in the room for Speke with massive leakage to a normally significant European Airport .
Now superVC10 ( magnificent aircraft !) with such information available perhaps you can see the many many issues commercially and financially facing Liverpool as even a group three airport .
I also eco ATNotts simple assertion that the UK ( England) probably have too many airports in the grade three groupings chasing relatively similar traffic .
Caveat Birmingham and East Midlands have their specific niches , whilst the first is largely restricted by easy access access to London .
As I said Liverpool performs a function of exporting some holiday monies (price conscious) in the main and provides a critical NHS link with Ellen Vannin !
The first is /was a function of the liberalisation of air travel within the EU single market and amplified by some market miss-calculations at MAG.
And I will continue to compare and contrast with Bristol !
Consider EasyJet has grown based aircraft and associated employment from 3 ex Go 737s to 17 based and a network of more than 70 routes whilst Liverpool stagnates at 6/7 aircraft and what Is little more than a moving of the deck chairs on routes each season .
Since the 2013 cuts in which Liverpool took a hit recovery has been near non existent , whilst others have done so.
Easyjets commitment seems pretty luck warm imho.
Ryanair similarly has a policy of deck chair route moves and just four resident frames. And in their highest years at Speke their presence was as a result of a pricing spat with MAG !
Done some research on the late 80s spears of influence debate and DAA role apparently is true apologies, however a court ruling made it unenforceable anyway followed closely by EU liberalisation. A period 4 years should be irrelevant today.
As Mr Mac said it’s pretty irrelevant today or indeed anytime since the 2000s.
Whilst MOL is certainly carrying significant numbers across the choppy sea’s, especially football fans for big games; similarly to that other place, the fact that Aer Lingus seemingly are unable to cover costs indeed make money feeding their key connections and healthy local traffic is damning imho.
It indicates the general weakness in the local and indeed regional business travel market right there and personal.
As for the snide you don’t work for Peel statement well as a businessman company owner and shareholder have access to the Peel reports and financials surprised !
Since Peel regained majority ownership they have gone through the tawdriest economic times.
The ESG rating is just 3 with pretty poor credit scores B+ against comparable businesses.
With both those considerations, and just £9 million in reserves, any investment is going to be difficult to attain, let alone be authorised by central government without further risk loaded ( basically expensive) and environmental assessments . Those organic flying thingies in the bay estuary will certainly play a part !
The proposed container, freighting business on the marsh to the south is really what Peel are after , the airport rather less so from Peel Ports own assessments.
It a land grab by any other name .
Peel are a hard nosed Ports and commercial real estate business , aviation rather less so.
When Vantage relinquished there stake relatively cheaply and so quickly after their purchase it’s a clear indication of weakness of the business and expected future returns ( dividends - none forthcoming !)
Want to compare to Newcastle it’s apples and oranges.
A regional airport with heavily range of legacy routes by KL/AF, LH/EW, BA/VY AND EK to the world !
A region with up till Brexit massive industrial and petrochemical INWARD investment and simultaneously serving as the departure point for exported holiday monies . An area equally bounded by large rural communities and a regional population within 30 mile of just 1.24 millions compared to 1.45 millions within Merseyside .
Now clearly not going to depute the elephant in the room for Speke with massive leakage to a normally significant European Airport .
Now superVC10 ( magnificent aircraft !) with such information available perhaps you can see the many many issues commercially and financially facing Liverpool as even a group three airport .
I also eco ATNotts simple assertion that the UK ( England) probably have too many airports in the grade three groupings chasing relatively similar traffic .
Caveat Birmingham and East Midlands have their specific niches , whilst the first is largely restricted by easy access access to London .
A couple of comments on BRS vs LPL vs NCL.
No mention of the relative income levels of the respectivite catchements areas. I've not checked recently, but its a fair guess they still decrease the further north you get (and NCL's EZY has terminally stagnated from being on a par with BRS's - I don't think these two points are unconnected...).
NCL is massively more isolated than LPL - the populations might be similar but I'd like to see the figures for those within a 60 minute drive...
No mention of the relative income levels of the respectivite catchements areas. I've not checked recently, but its a fair guess they still decrease the further north you get (and NCL's EZY has terminally stagnated from being on a par with BRS's - I don't think these two points are unconnected...).
NCL is massively more isolated than LPL - the populations might be similar but I'd like to see the figures for those within a 60 minute drive...
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A couple of comments on BRS vs LPL vs NCL.
No mention of the relative income levels of the respectivite catchements areas. I've not checked recently, but its a fair guess they still decrease the further north you get (and NCL's EZY has terminally stagnated from being on a par with BRS's - I don't think these two points are unconnected...).
NCL is massively more isolated than LPL - the populations might be similar but I'd like to see the figures for those within a 60 minute drive...
No mention of the relative income levels of the respectivite catchements areas. I've not checked recently, but its a fair guess they still decrease the further north you get (and NCL's EZY has terminally stagnated from being on a par with BRS's - I don't think these two points are unconnected...).
NCL is massively more isolated than LPL - the populations might be similar but I'd like to see the figures for those within a 60 minute drive...
What I have generally demonstrated and disturbingly, is the real regional economical disparities within England ( The north south divide as it were) that may have further impacted a certain decision we can’t talk about !
Now what’s the answer and the way forward “ levelling up ain’t it “ now that’s for another place through .
I did refer to the real competition for funding being other urban regions across the EU rather more so than Manchester viz Liverpool . The North West and indeed North of England as whole needs to pull together to create the economic engine as it were for the desired prosperity and growth.
Bristol and the M4 corridor links have produced a dynamic economy with University’s, pharmaceuticals research and indeed entrepreneurship seemingly lacking in the North West for whatever reason.
It’s a deep,seated societal problem with no simple solutions and certainly not in the scope of a simple forum such as this.
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Are you sure its PPE? I'm sure I heard our illustrious leader, or one of his lackies say that PPE is now made overwhelmingly in the UK. Perhaps more likely LFT and PCR kits. Don't know, just seems more likely, unless of course he's been lying again!!
I think in these sorts of cases PPE just means "general Covid stuff". The interesting thing will be how long these and other recent cargo developments stay - is it a permanent shift in the industry or are we still in crisis mode while the logistics industry as a whole recovers i.e. port congestion, container shortages etc
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