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Liverpool-5

Old 9th Sep 2022, 08:21
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Several sport related charters of late to and from Naples, Vitoria and Oslo ( which is a regular ) , 737- 400 , A319 and A340 have operated.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 14:51
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Does Peel treat Liverpool differently than its other airports. Do they spend their own money or still try and get grants and payments from the local council and central government.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 16:37
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Originally Posted by N707ZS
Does Peel treat Liverpool differently than its other airports. Do they spend their own money or still try and get grants and payments from the local council and central government.
Not privy to that information, but Peel are not the only shareholder.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 18:34
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Originally Posted by N707ZS
Does Peel treat Liverpool differently than its other airports. Do they spend their own money or still try and get grants and payments from the local council and central government.
Just like the rest of Vantage Airports /Peel Aviation Services use the airport to gain a host of ready public money “grants” . Speke makes nought in the pound .

Liverpool Airport Group have several vehicles to conceal these funds .Right now something approaching £4millions ( equal to those grants] has been squirrelled away into a special vehicle specifically for directors .That vehicle is called Liverpool Airport (intermediate) No2 a separate legal company .
Funds of around £150,000 are also accrued from Doncaster for “shared services”

Peel/ Vantage Airports are operated pretty much as a tax liability to the more profitable sectors of the Peel group.

The lack of dividends anytime soon was part of the reason the Canadians offloaded much of their investments rather cheaply back to Peel !

The other shareholders are minority companies and aren’t at all happy with the lack of dividends that’s for sure.

Group reserves ( cash) was under £200,000 at last report not at all spectacular

Is the airport solvent- questionable without an amount of creativity in the accounts and auditing processes

Like the rest of the aviation division it’s the land bank value that’s important

Liverpudlian fan boys don’t like to be reminded of this through

Last edited by Rutan16; 10th Sep 2022 at 19:12.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 18:45
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It’s difficult to interpret accounts without input from the Directors and the greater the number of subsidiaries the more opaque they become. For instance, Doncaster has Other Administrative Expenses of £5.7m with no detailed analysis, which could include a myriad of management fees. Peel are not known as risk takers but are probably highly adept at maximising tax planning.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 18:52
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Vantage haven’t had a stake in Liverpool Airport for years. You’re also conflating the Group, which is a holding company and Liverpool Airport Limited.

Pre-pandemic the airport made a £4.7m operating profit on almost £34m turnover.

The only ’grants’ I’m aware of were EU funding from when the ‘new’ terminal was built in 2002. That money will have conditions attached so it may well be accounted for separately. Any recent investments have been shareholder funded.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 22:33
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Originally Posted by eye2eye5
It’s difficult to interpret accounts without input from the Directors and the greater the number of subsidiaries the more opaque they become. For instance, Doncaster has Other Administrative Expenses of £5.7m with no detailed analysis, which could include a myriad of management fees. Peel are not known as risk takers but are probably highly adept at maximising tax planning.
Exactly that smoke and mirrors and sub defuse!

I think they have maybe a dozen little “ companies” each cross billing each other for services rendered .

Peel are a shoddy outfit even in their property and marine portfolios

The accounts are deliberately constructed to be opaque

AndyH …… I used the prior Vantage name for emphasis “ it’s remains a registered company in Companies House through dormant

As for the operating profit you refer to its pre tax and other write downs -it became a loss in the final accounts

I did expect the usual suspects to chime in through

As these are corporate issues not the day to day running of the Terminals

Again creative accounts are necessary to obscure the financial poor performance of the Group of Companies

A greater pity is the politicians in the City Region barely give a toss either !







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Old 10th Sep 2022, 22:36
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Originally Posted by eye2eye5
It’s difficult to interpret accounts without input from the Directors and the greater the number of subsidiaries the more opaque they become. For instance, Doncaster has Other Administrative Expenses of £5.7m with no detailed analysis, which could include a myriad of management fees. Peel are not known as risk takers but are probably highly adept at maximising tax planning.
No it’s not difficult if you are an investor or company director yourself !
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 07:35
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Originally Posted by Rutan16

AndyH …… I used the prior Vantage name for emphasis “ it’s remains a registered company in Companies House through dormant

As for the operating profit you refer to its pre tax and other write downs -it became a loss in the final accounts

I did expect the usual suspects to chime in through

As these are corporate issues not the day to day running of the Terminals

Again creative accounts are necessary to obscure the financial poor performance of the Group of Companies

A greater pity is the politicians in the City Region barely give a toss either !
I’d hope any investor or director of a company I was involved in would be capable of basic due diligence and realise Vantage sold its stake in 2014 and is referred to in the Companies House listing as a prior name, not a dormant company.

I’d also hope said investor or director might understand how you might end up with complex accounts for a group operating structure, especially when that group does provide cross services and has also funded growth through equity investment at different stages. See Manchester Airport Group as an example…

I’ll always “chime in” when I see the ‘usual suspects’ contributing incorrect or misleading information.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 10:42
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In other news, this is a very positive development on the airport’s doorstep:

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/pha...eke-expansion/
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 10:59
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We can argue the toss about the corportate practices of Peel, but the airport site and the areas around it have been transformed compared to what they were.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 12:01
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ANDY I have no grip with you here or elsewhere and I yield when provided with supportive evidence .What don’t and won’t do is fall for sycophantic nonsense !

Why Is it YOU take offence and an adopt a level of aggression rather than pointing to other evidence it’s most unpleasant here and in another place !

Open discussion shouldn’t take such tones !

Do I have a personal issue with you no .Do I have issues with Peel yes they are the worst aviation business in the UK

Ruined and closed Sheffield, Ruined and neglected the core operations of Tees side and now at Doncaster - Common thread land values

Tried to ditch Liverpool and even that back fired

Liverpool lost their parcel service , for years Easy and Ryan have simply moved deck chairs with little genuine expansion ( true a practice of flexible fares carriers) .

Compared to similar sized operations Liverpool has stagnated.

Now I was generally replying to the private 707 chap , a person that’s been here for decades a respected and knowledgeable commentator and one that clearly has a handle on Peel !

Again why do YOU take aggressive stances and why do you and others elsewhere feel the need to bloke out other views and indeed anyone else from posting to the point of calling them trolls or even attempting to bar them ( especially those with PAID subscription)

Liverpool airport a small regional airport serving a city region as a business it’s not a football team , and some of the management practices are absolutely open for debate and criticism

You might have a differing opinion and I respect that but when a Peel group company owed you £178,000 in unpaid invoices for 120 days you might have a sour taste for that organisation don’t you think ?

Seems however the cabal aren’t satisfied with toxicity elsewhere and are bringing it here as well
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 12:28
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90 day terms for invoice payment is pretty standard for a large corporate but 120 days really is taking the ****. It’s about time an enforceable code of conduct was introduced for invoice payment but the chances of that happening at present is zero.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 12:43
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Ruined and closed Sheffield, Ruined and neglected the core operations of Tees side and now at Doncaster - Common thread land values
How did they ruin Sheffield - the market disappeared. What core operations were ruined and neglected at Teesside - the Mayor is implementing Peels masterplan but with a bucketful of tax money.
Liverpool lost their parcel service
Are we talking Royal Mail? If so, again the market disappeared

Liverpool airport a small regional airport serving a city region as a business it’s not a football team
Constant underlying criticism of Peel is that they are a property company and treat their airports as land banks e.g. "Common thread land values". So what's the difference - surely there responsibility is to do what's right for their shareholders.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 12:49
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Are we talking Royal Mail? If so, again the market disappeared

.
​​​​​​The market hasn't disappeared. Letters have reduced but it's more than made up for by small packets and small parcels
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 12:57
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Originally Posted by lfc84
​​​​​​The market hasn't disappeared. Letters have reduced but it's more than made up for by small packets and small parcels
I'll re-phrase that - Royal Mail have switched their operation from air to road. That's what I meant by the market disappearing - they no longer had a need for air transport.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 13:43
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Rutan. If my responses come across as aggressive. I apologise. It’s a natural reaction when I feel I am being patronised or gaslit.

I can understand how your past experience with Peel Group has left a bitter taste. It comes through loud and clear in some of your posts.

This was a decent forum for a long time, but no longer, it seems. I’m tired of people dressing opinion up as fact and creating a sense that truth doesn’t matter anymore.

I’ll leave you to it.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 16:57
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I'll re-phrase that - Royal Mail have switched their operation from air to road. That's what I meant by the market disappearing - they no longer had a need for air transport.
That's not strictly true, either. The UK operation is now centred on EMA, where mail (letters and parcels), for distribution throughout the UK, and particularly across water, are moved through a facility there.
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Old 11th Sep 2022, 16:58
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LH

Lufthansa operated a E 190 on their FRA-LPL again this morning.
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Old 12th Sep 2022, 05:25
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Originally Posted by lfc84
​​​​​​The market hasn't disappeared. Letters have reduced but it's more than made up for by small packets and small parcels

This with their experience and facilities available apron space and warehousing - Should have got a least one of the consolidators- didnt !

Sheffield market didn’t disappear- Peel made it so

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