Doncaster Sheffield-3
Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn
Diff Tail Shim - It is most disappointing to note that your counter-argument to my post comes in the form of deplorable racist hate speech. Use of the 'G' word in the context you deploy it is every bit as racist as dropping the 'N' word, and for exactly the same reasons. I'm sure that Lincolnshire farmers will be surprised to learn that they are "Tory gang masters" offering "shit conditions" too.
It is apparent that you are a person driven by hatred and intolerance rather than rational thought processes. You have blown what little credibility you had.
DSA struggled for the reasons I summarised in post 848. I see no reason to engage with you further.
It is apparent that you are a person driven by hatred and intolerance rather than rational thought processes. You have blown what little credibility you had.
DSA struggled for the reasons I summarised in post 848. I see no reason to engage with you further.
The airport is closed because there was no strong business model for opening in the first place. Consistent profits were never returned and any ROI just wasn't there. The brutal truth is that the totality of the whole DSA passenger operation has been effortlessly absorbed by nearby airports without as much as a ripple. DSA had no USP, no differentiator. There needed to be a critical mass to stand any chance of being consistently profitable, they never got it. See also Southend and possibly Teesside, both of which are IMHO, similar.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
The airport is closed because there was no strong business model for opening in the first place. Consistent profits were never returned and any ROI just wasn't there. The brutal truth is that the totality of the whole DSA passenger operation has been effortlessly absorbed by nearby airports without as much as a ripple. DSA had no USP, no differentiator. There needed to be a critical mass to stand any chance of being consistently profitable, they never got it. See also Southend and possibly Teesside, both of which are IMHO, similar.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
Southend drove volume deals with both easyJet and Ryanair which drove short term unsustainable throughput. When the intro deal runs out, the locos relocate the fleet to somewhere with a better deal, SEN never managed to lock them in with a deal that the airport would do well out of. Again, if Southend stopped all passenger ops tomorrow, the totality of the operation would easily be handled by Stansted and others. Like Manston before it, it adds nothing that's net new, it really just cannibalises competitors.
But I know what you mean, it's a crying shame, very painful for local jobs and businesses. Very sad.
But I know what you mean, it's a crying shame, very painful for local jobs and businesses. Very sad.
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
The airport is closed because there was no strong business model for opening in the first place. Consistent profits were never returned and any ROI just wasn't there. The brutal truth is that the totality of the whole DSA passenger operation has been effortlessly absorbed by nearby airports without as much as a ripple. DSA had no USP, no differentiator. There needed to be a critical mass to stand any chance of being consistently profitable, they never got it. See also Southend and possibly Teesside, both of which are IMHO, similar.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
I do think it could be a success, but it would have to be at the cost of LBA and to an extent EMA. Be interesting to see how these talks conclude. Heard some fantastical rumours about who the bidder(s) is/are and what their influence is and plans are. Believe it when I see it though.
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
Southend drove volume deals with both easyJet and Ryanair which drove short term unsustainable throughput. When the intro deal runs out, the locos relocate the fleet to somewhere with a better deal, SEN never managed to lock them in with a deal that the airport would do well out of. Again, if Southend stopped all passenger ops tomorrow, the totality of the operation would easily be handled by Stansted and others. Like Manston before it, it adds nothing that's net new, it really just cannibalises competitors.
But I know what you mean, it's a crying shame, very painful for local jobs and businesses. Very sad.
But I know what you mean, it's a crying shame, very painful for local jobs and businesses. Very sad.
Do we ‘Need’ DSA? - No there are alternatives, but similarly do we need a Morrisons popping up next to a Tesco - No, but they do because they are tapping into a market.
Can DSA be viable commercially - Yes but only with the right management and 15-20 based Airframes and let’s face it they would need to be bucket and spade operators, and Wizz
Are TUI going to base 15-20 Airframes - No, so DSA would have to try pull in Easy Holidays, Jet2, Ryanair & Wizz
Would that cannibalise the market - Yes but which market?, that depends who bases, TUI & Easy would pull the Yorkshire traffic currently travelling over the Pennines using MAN (they can afford to lose 3m pax), Jet2 would run the risk of closing LBA, Ryanair would hit numbers at MAN, LBA, EMA, BHX, NCL, LPL, Wizz would just return with previous routes.
There is opportunity for a successful facility at DSA, get the right products, in the right volume, at the right price, with the right timings/frequency and the passengers will welcome the opportunity to use the award winning airport. Despite being on a fringe, it’s very accessible and convenient, unlike LBA. Look at the support on social media.
How do you get to 15-20 airframes against established incumbents? What would new DSA do that old DSA didn't? How much would need to be spent to accommodate 15-20 based a/c?
and then look at the support for all the flights attempted over the years. They'll melt away as soon as they can get a cheaper flight somewhere else.
Look at the support on social media.
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ
I’m seeing all the same comments that have been raised previously
Do we ‘Need’ DSA? - No there are alternatives, but similarly do we need a Morrisons popping up next to a Tesco - No, but they do because they are tapping into a market.
Can DSA be viable commercially - Yes but only with the right management and 15-20 based Airframes and let’s face it they would need to be bucket and spade operators, and Wizz
Are TUI going to base 15-20 Airframes - No, so DSA would have to try pull in Easy Holidays, Jet2, Ryanair & Wizz
Would that cannibalise the market - Yes but which market?, that depends who bases, TUI & Easy would pull the Yorkshire traffic currently travelling over the Pennines using MAN (they can afford to lose 3m pax), Jet2 would run the risk of closing LBA, Ryanair would hit numbers at MAN, LBA, EMA, BHX, NCL, LPL, Wizz would just return with previous routes.
There is opportunity for a successful facility at DSA, get the right products, in the right volume, at the right price, with the right timings/frequency and the passengers will welcome the opportunity to use the award winning airport. Despite being on a fringe, it’s very accessible and convenient, unlike LBA. Look at the support on social media.
Do we ‘Need’ DSA? - No there are alternatives, but similarly do we need a Morrisons popping up next to a Tesco - No, but they do because they are tapping into a market.
Can DSA be viable commercially - Yes but only with the right management and 15-20 based Airframes and let’s face it they would need to be bucket and spade operators, and Wizz
Are TUI going to base 15-20 Airframes - No, so DSA would have to try pull in Easy Holidays, Jet2, Ryanair & Wizz
Would that cannibalise the market - Yes but which market?, that depends who bases, TUI & Easy would pull the Yorkshire traffic currently travelling over the Pennines using MAN (they can afford to lose 3m pax), Jet2 would run the risk of closing LBA, Ryanair would hit numbers at MAN, LBA, EMA, BHX, NCL, LPL, Wizz would just return with previous routes.
There is opportunity for a successful facility at DSA, get the right products, in the right volume, at the right price, with the right timings/frequency and the passengers will welcome the opportunity to use the award winning airport. Despite being on a fringe, it’s very accessible and convenient, unlike LBA. Look at the support on social media.
The fundamental problem is lack of demand combined with an already highly competitive operating environment. So if you can’t attract airlines away from the competitors then the only way you can make a success of it financially is to scale back on the ambitions and push for small, sustainable growth, with the ultimate outcome being reduced service levels.
Your supermarket analogy is a poor one.
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There are official meeting notes (I will try and find them - they are online) which states Peel turned down a low cost carrier (other than Wizz) who wanted to base last year. Also, the comments from alot of people who worked in cargo saying Peel regularly turned away business is alarming.
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Originally Posted by TimmyW
There are official meeting notes (I will try and find them - they are online) which states Peel turned down a low cost carrier (other than Wizz) who wanted to base last year. Also, the comments from alot of people who worked in cargo saying Peel regularly turned away business is alarming.
DSA is not the only airport that has turned away business, do your minutes show why they decided to turn away said low-cost airline? Could it be that they were requesting subsidies to do so at a time when Wizzair U.K. had already agreed to expand there, thus causing concern of saturating an already delicate market?
The previous suggestion from G-FORZ is similar, that airlines should cannibalise their own market.. We wouldn’t have many airlines around if they employed that sort of business model.
Could it be that they were requesting subsidies to do so at a time when Wizzair U.K. had already agreed to expand there, thus causing concern of saturating an already delicate market?
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Reading between the lines of the current social medial post from the mayor, a compulsory purchase order is the only hope now. And there is zero chance of it being successful IMO.
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Originally Posted by TimmyW
Reading between the lines of the current social medial post from the mayor, a compulsory purchase order is the only hope now. And there is zero chance of it being successful IMO.
Originally Posted by Asturias56
what council is going to go out and try and buy an airport in the current financial situation? their voters would turf them out
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
What are the are the grounds on which they are contesting?
Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Assuming Peel lose, it's going to take a lot of time, energy, and money to get DSA back to 1 million pax per year
Yes I'm being flippant, but I've no idea who the interested party is and what connections they have
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