Norwegian-2
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Norwegian-2
Given the continuing cash burn and lack of flying (and consumer confidence in the business), I don’t see how Norwegian can pull themselves out of this (terminal ?) dive......maybe they are regretting the overtures from IAG (although not sure IAG will be)
Last edited by TOM100; 19th Nov 2020 at 07:33.
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The other big issue looming is that of the handful of domestic routes that Norwegian are still flying, Wizz Air are arriving on almost all of them within the next week or two. This can only do some serious damage to their short term prospects (which is, no doubt, Wizz's objective) but the scale of this is quite surprising.
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Wizz has its eyes firmly fixed on LGW, any way of putting further pressure on Norwegian and most importantly damaging investor confidence could lead to the final nail in Norwegian's coffin.
Such an event would given them access to LGW slots. Airlines from outside of Norway or indeed Scandinavia have had limited successes in the market, so Wizz clearly feel they have some chances of success...
Such an event would given them access to LGW slots. Airlines from outside of Norway or indeed Scandinavia have had limited successes in the market, so Wizz clearly feel they have some chances of success...
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Another day, another announcement of Wizz establishing itself on a Norwegian domestic route - Oslo to Haugesund, starting in about two weeks from now. Apart from the far north routes, there can't be many domestic markets from Oslo left in which Wizz has still to compete with Norwegian. Without meaning to be flippant or disrespectful to those past or present, this feels like watching an old war movie with the victor continually firing torpedoes into the enemy battleship until it finally sinks. Norwegian can't stand up to this.
And if the chips fall in Norway, the slots fall in Gatwick.
And if the chips fall in Norway, the slots fall in Gatwick.
davidjohnson6
I would doubt Irish subsidary owns any aircraft, likely it is done via an Intercompany leasing arrangement with another Irish subsidary or a company registered elsewhere. Basically it prevents a judgement being exercised.
Company A owns Company B / C / D etc Company B operates the asset which it leases from Company C. Get a judgement against company B is meaningless as it leases the assets it uses and Company C can reclaim them and lease to company D quickly.
The overall viewpoint is not unrealistic though as every creditor will act now to ensure it gets paid. Hence fuel company want cash up front. Airports will just block aircraft in irrespective of who owns them until fees are paid, legally may not stand up in court but that means aircraft sit for 9 months until case comes to court, hence pay up and be gone is often best option.
I would doubt Irish subsidary owns any aircraft, likely it is done via an Intercompany leasing arrangement with another Irish subsidary or a company registered elsewhere. Basically it prevents a judgement being exercised.
Company A owns Company B / C / D etc Company B operates the asset which it leases from Company C. Get a judgement against company B is meaningless as it leases the assets it uses and Company C can reclaim them and lease to company D quickly.
The overall viewpoint is not unrealistic though as every creditor will act now to ensure it gets paid. Hence fuel company want cash up front. Airports will just block aircraft in irrespective of who owns them until fees are paid, legally may not stand up in court but that means aircraft sit for 9 months until case comes to court, hence pay up and be gone is often best option.
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Marked in bold the destinations Wizz currently do not serve. Not sure if this list is up to date due to Covid.
Norwegian from OSL:
Ålesund, Alta, Bergen, Bodø, Harstad/Narvik, Haugesund, Kirkenes, Kristiansand, Longyearbyen, Molde, Stavanger, Tromsø, Trondheim
SAS from OSL:
Ålesund, Alta, Bardufoss, Bergen, Bodø, Harstad/Narvik, Haugesund, Kirkenes, Kristiansand, Kristiansund, Lakselv, Longyearbyen, Molde, Stavanger, Tromsø, Trondheim
Wizz from OSL:
Ålesund, Alta, Bergen, Bodø, Harstad/Narvik, Haugesund, Kirkenes, Stavanger, Tromsø, Trondheim
Norwegian from OSL:
Ålesund, Alta, Bergen, Bodø, Harstad/Narvik, Haugesund, Kirkenes, Kristiansand, Longyearbyen, Molde, Stavanger, Tromsø, Trondheim
SAS from OSL:
Ålesund, Alta, Bardufoss, Bergen, Bodø, Harstad/Narvik, Haugesund, Kirkenes, Kristiansand, Kristiansund, Lakselv, Longyearbyen, Molde, Stavanger, Tromsø, Trondheim
Wizz from OSL:
Ålesund, Alta, Bergen, Bodø, Harstad/Narvik, Haugesund, Kirkenes, Stavanger, Tromsø, Trondheim
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I mean they haven't filed for bankruptcy in Norway but please, keep posting wrong information.
https://in.reuters.com/article/norwe...-idINL1N2IO0CO
https://in.reuters.com/article/norwe...-idINL1N2IO0CO
Most countries require companies to pay their debts in full and on time. Failure to do this is usually deemed to be default
Anything that involves non-payment of debts in full with a court getting involved has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Anything that involves delaying payment with a court getting involved has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Anything that involves asking a court to prevent creditors from suing for unpaid or late debts has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Anything that involves conversion of debt into equity with a court getting involved has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Might have a different name, but it looks, talks and pays like bankruptcy
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...tion-in-norway
Anything that involves non-payment of debts in full with a court getting involved has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Anything that involves delaying payment with a court getting involved has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Anything that involves asking a court to prevent creditors from suing for unpaid or late debts has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Anything that involves conversion of debt into equity with a court getting involved has a strong smell of bankruptcy.
Might have a different name, but it looks, talks and pays like bankruptcy
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...tion-in-norway
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Most countries have re-structuring protection legislation. In the US is called chapter 11, in Ireland Examinership, in the Uk Corporate Insolvency and Governance and elsewhere other names. It is a different process to Bankruptcy and in fact most companies that enter the process do not go bankrupt. This is more the case of if it is a bird and is making a noise it must be a duck. Life is not that simple I am afraid.
Your statement says a lot more about your ignorance of these maters than about Norwegians situation
Your statement says a lot more about your ignorance of these maters than about Norwegians situation
Apologies for the slightly loose language. I used "bankruptcy" to mean "bankruptcy protection" as distinct from liquidation / dissolution / winding up. Having spent many years working on modelling credit worthiness of large corporates perhaps I should have anticipated the language lawyers
The point was to show that it's not just the Irish subsidiary that needs court protection from creditors - but the core company in Norway which seems unable to function normally. If after cutting loose the foreign subsidiaries, the parent company does not expect to be able to pay their debts on time and in full, then management must have a very negative view of the airline's future. The company PR dept seem to be trying to present this court filing in Norway as a routine event in the life of a normally functioning company - it's not
Spotty - i was thinking of duck, but thought to change the wording slightly as companies in trouble tend not to go quack...
The point was to show that it's not just the Irish subsidiary that needs court protection from creditors - but the core company in Norway which seems unable to function normally. If after cutting loose the foreign subsidiaries, the parent company does not expect to be able to pay their debts on time and in full, then management must have a very negative view of the airline's future. The company PR dept seem to be trying to present this court filing in Norway as a routine event in the life of a normally functioning company - it's not
Spotty - i was thinking of duck, but thought to change the wording slightly as companies in trouble tend not to go quack...
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Again you seem to miss the point. This is not about "cutting loose foreign subsidiaries". This process is about re-structuring the debt and making the necessary changes in order to continue as a going concern. Since a lot of the aircraft are held in Ireland, and presumably Ireland has favorable legislation, the process has been started in Ireland. The Irish Examinership also includes protection for the parent company in Oslo. It is quite obvious that in a situation like this the whole company will need re-estructuring. They have also filed for a similar process in Norway and I guess there must be sound legal reasons to do so.
I don't know if you have noticed but the whole aviation industry is on its knees. Virtually no one is paying their debts on time and in full. In fact most, if not all, airlines are receiving vast public subsidies to avoid going under.
As you enjoy pontificating on the issue why not have a wee read? https://leman.ie/examinership/
I don't know if you have noticed but the whole aviation industry is on its knees. Virtually no one is paying their debts on time and in full. In fact most, if not all, airlines are receiving vast public subsidies to avoid going under.
As you enjoy pontificating on the issue why not have a wee read? https://leman.ie/examinership/
Last edited by calypso; 8th Dec 2020 at 14:20.
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Restructuring plan announced. "Under these circumstances a long haul operation is not viable for Norwegian and these operations will not continue."
https://media.uk.norwegian.com/press...etwork-3064682
https://media.uk.norwegian.com/press...etwork-3064682