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Aer Lingus UK

Old 24th Feb 2021, 11:02
  #61 (permalink)  
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However it is a one was street if Aer Lingus insists on continuing with its current policy of requiring applicants to have the right to live and work in the EU. These will be UK jobs but UK applicants will be barred from applying even if they are offered externally. Not Aer Lingus's fault. The UK gov has taken those rights away from us and yet it appears to be helping foreign carriers set up in the UK without the need to even give UK nationals the chance to apply for these jobs. Irish unemployed pilot pool shrinks, UK pool expands. Thanks Grant!
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Old 24th Feb 2021, 13:59
  #62 (permalink)  
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If thats the case surely BALPA have responsibility to represent its members and beat a path to the door of the DoT to even things up..At least they need to try.
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Old 24th Feb 2021, 19:02
  #63 (permalink)  
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I agree. I don't know if there are any special agreements between parts of the IAG group but if not, I would be a little unhappy if I was a redundant BA pilot and my parent company appeared to be encouraging and helping another part of the group to set up base in my own country bringing its own staff and yet it would appear that a British national is not entitled to apply for that position should it actually be advertised. Aer Lingus have not changed the rules, HMG have. BALPA, DfT and several interested MPs are aware of this potential Brexit own goal so it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Again though, if I was a redundant BA pilot or an unemployed Airbus pilot then I would be interested to know why the minister for Transport has been holding talks with AL and helping the deal along with the US when there is a perfectly capable UK carrier and 2-3000 unemployed UK pilots able to take on this work.
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Old 25th Feb 2021, 13:53
  #64 (permalink)  
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Skipness One Foxtrot

Not entirely correct. Thompson also fly Canaries routes with Irish based a/c and crew during summers.
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Old 25th Feb 2021, 13:57
  #65 (permalink)  
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If there was a capable carrier of operating, they would have done so surely? BA have neither the aircraft nor the cost structure to compete in MAN, Jet2 have little to no experience or apparently appetite for it. Can I ask why the EI base would be an issue, if the crew will be paying tax to the UK? Surely its just a nationality thing, and thats a dangerous territory. No similar issue raised with TUI or Cityflyer operating ex DUB?
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Old 25th Feb 2021, 16:08
  #66 (permalink)  
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I'm sure there are enough British pilots and pilots with the right to live and work in the UK in Aer Lingus to crew the proposed Manchester operation. EI has not recruited pilots since the end of the Brexit transition period. If there were any external recruitment for the Manchester base, I'm sure that UK nationals would be able to apply.

British pilots have been flying for Aer Lingus for decades and I doubt Brexit will change that, thanks to the relationship between the UK and ROI that predates the EU. However it might not be possible for EI pilots with other European passports to fly on the UK aoc.
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Old 25th Feb 2021, 16:15
  #67 (permalink)  
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I've not read the entire thread and therefore am replying off the cuff. The airline surely is Aer Lingus UK, not Aer Lingus, and therefore all conditions, both with regards to employment and tax, will be governed by UK law.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 07:33
  #68 (permalink)  
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I was thinking that since Aer Lingus (UK) Ltd is registered in Northern Ireland, this will be the first AOC issued to an NI company since Woodgate and the first to incorporate passenger jet aircraft.

Back in the mists of time we had Emerald Airways and Air Ulster registered locally.
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Old 28th Feb 2021, 18:16
  #69 (permalink)  
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We won't be hiring pilots for the MAN base if it goes ahead. They will be drawn from the existing seniority list.
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Old 28th Feb 2021, 21:19
  #70 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the info MCDU2. This is not surprising given the number of excess crew in Aer Lingus but what does concern me is where this could lead if Aer Lingus continue to require their pilots to have the right to live and work in the EU. This wasn't a problem for UK nationals until now. What happens when the number of aircraft is 8 say, (half wet-leased in perhaps) and what in theory is to stop IAG working with Iberia to set up another £1 UK brass plate subsidiary bring in all their own surplus aircraft and crew on the South America routes?

The UK ROI Common Travel area agreement should allow this apparent unfair situation to balance out over time but not if it is being completely undermined, now that UK nationals have lost their freedom of movement. The UK, ROI and USA are now all third countries with respect to one another but I doubt that the US authorities would be happy if Aer Lingus said we are opening a NY base and we want to bring all our own staff in. I can't blame IAG and Aer Lingus for giving this a go and I think it could be quite successful. I do wonder though, whether the UK government has a clue what a can of worms they could be opening up and if they do, do they care or are all the UK unemployed pilots just meant to get over it and convert to grocery delivery vans. What's next, Air France UK, Lufthansa UK, each with a small office in a broom-cupboard above the coffee shop at Shoreham Airport.
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 08:47
  #71 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by biddedout View Post
The UK, ROI and USA are now all third countries with respect to one another.
Not correct from a residency or working rights perspective.

U.K. citizens have unrestricted rights to live and work in the Republic of Ireland.

Irish citizens have unrestricted rights to live and work in the U.K.

This is clearly not the case for living and working in the USA or for US citizens over here.

Obviously Irish citizens additionally have the unrestricted right to live and work in all EU countries.
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 16:10
  #72 (permalink)  
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That's true but the issue is that Aer Lingus also have the right to live and work in the EU as a restriction on their terms and conditions. I am not sure how they will apply that going forwards or whether like Ryanair, they only apply it selectively. As it stands though, it appears to prevent UK nationals from applying. It may be a hangover from the past and they may drop it but equally, it may be retained to give flexibility if they need to re-deploy crew elsewhere into the EU in the future. If it is that latter then it cannot be right that UK Gov are supporting Aer Lingus either directly through PSO routes or indirectly by loans and aid to BA / AIG when other UK airlines are not being offered support and when so many UK crew are out of work. I suppose one indication would be how they plan to deal with UK nationals currently working for them. They have the right to work n the ROI, but not in the rest of the EU. Maybe they will just turn a blind eye to their own rules.
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 16:35
  #73 (permalink)  
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There's a degree of near-xenophobia developing through this thread. I am sure that Aer Lingus has more than a few UK resident and UK-taxpaying pilots on its seniority list, just as British Airways and Virgin Atlantic have pilots resident in France, Netherlands and far beyond on theirs. If those existing Aer Lingus pilots start to fly to and from Manchester instead of commuting back and forth to Dublin before every shift or block of shifts, who exactly has lost out here?

And there is already a major European airline resident in that figurative broom-cupboard above the coffee shop at Shoreham (not literally). SAS Ireland operating out of Heathrow. It's perhaps at this point that I should put on my tin hat and run for cover.
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 18:02
  #74 (permalink)  
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I feel a court case coming on.
As soon as any airline starts advertising in the UK for new recruits with the ability to live/work anywhere in the EU, it will be discriminatory against most UK residents.
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 19:29
  #75 (permalink)  
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Is this even going to happen this year I wonder?
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Old 1st Mar 2021, 19:40
  #76 (permalink)  
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Looking less likely for the summer, especially to the U.S. I believe they are looking at the Caribbean for the winter though.
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Old 3rd Mar 2021, 10:06
  #77 (permalink)  
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Location: UK
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Albert Hall

It certainly seems that way.

EI is a part of IAG. It pays dividends up the food chain. All the UK/EU grant aid has been tagged as far as I am aware to the respective territory and cannot be transferred within the group. EI have only just recently received a small loan from the Irish government and its nowhere near anything that BA or Iberia have gained.

MAN went boom when the locos/charters went bust. Opportunites arose to serve a large market. EI had and have aircraft due for delivery that it doesn't need at the moment as Ireland is effectively closed for business from a travel perspective. So it saw an opportunity. It also has a substantial surplus of pilots in the ROI.

There were never any "job opportunites" for UK unemployed pilots in the first place and as such EI won't be taking any jobs away. EI and its UK based staff will be paying its taxes. In the future if (and its a big if) the opportunity expands then there may be opportunities to hire new staff. This will be dependant on a number of factors notwithstanding what level of bounce back there will be in the Irish market.
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 21:42
  #78 (permalink)  
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US granted approval for the flights.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 22:16
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dublin
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They have advertised a few jobs today (not crew) for MAN and the following is required in terms of live/work:
  • Eligible to live and work in the United Kingdom without restriction (i.e. UK Passport Holder or Non-UK Citizen holding a valid work permit)
  • Hold a valid UK passport allowing unrestricted worldwide travel/or equivalent
  • Eligible to apply for and obtain US/relevant visas required for role
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Old 12th Mar 2021, 20:03
  #80 (permalink)  
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Location: london
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Now advertising for crew for Manchester
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