Edinburgh-4

[SWBKCB]

Thanks - was talking to a colleague who is planning a first visit to family post covid who wasn't aware of EDI as an option to the US.

EDI is about the same as MAN by public transport from Newcastle but now has better options to the States. AMS has done itself no favours this year.

[Asturias56]

"EDI is about the same as MAN by public transport from Newcastle"

its a lot pleasanter trip by train from NCL - EDI than NCL - MAN

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

"EDI is about the same as MAN by public transport from Newcastle"

its a lot pleasanter trip by train from NCL - EDI than NCL - MAN

Wouldn't argue with that - full size trains for a start - I was thinking about journey times

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Wouldn't argue with that - full size trains for a start - I was thinking about journey times

Same Hitachi series train sets used.

Not all the LnER are nine cars , indeed about half the fleet are actually 5 cars ( identical to Trans Peninne) through coupled together forming ten on some services.

[SWBKCB]

I was thinking more about the type of coaches used rather than the length of the train - last time I used Trans Peninne to MAN it was more like being on the bus I used to get to the station than an intercity train service (I appreciate that it wasn't a train used on a service to London, so my expectations were reduced in advance). They must have upgraded their fleet.

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

I was thinking more about the type of coaches used rather than the length of the train - last time I used Trans Peninne to MAN it was more like being on the bus I used to get to the station than an intercity train service (I appreciate that it wasn't a train used on a service to London, so my expectations were reduced in advance). They must have upgraded their fleet.

Prior to the Hitachi trains entering service in 2017 they used three car Class 185 train sets often coupled in pairs.

They remain servicing Redcar south, occasional Scarborough - Liverpool and the core Liverpool - Hull corridor
These are definitely outer suburban stock and not up to inter city standards

Trans Pennine west cost Manchester - Scotland now use new Spanish built electric five car sets pretty nice equipment also from 2017 onwards.

And the remaining Liverpool/Manchester - Scarborough services use a real live diesel locomotive and special fixed sets of five coaches from 2018.

Almost all long routes use one of the three sets above now, substantially new and the Hitachi sets are of the bimode variety; Diesel between Huddersfield and Manchester and again from Church Fenton to just before Leeds.

Caveat the seats on the Hitachi are operator specific and from a personal perspective the Trans Pennine seat is a little better in padding and support over the Department for Transport seat specified in the LnER and GWR train sets.

Only real difference is catering options on the two differing routes and operators . The nine car LnER trains have a buffet in coach G and the five cars each have their own in Coach B.

Trans Pennine is cart service only .

By the way the services and most ticket options from Newcastle to and from Edinburgh and the timetables are coordinated so either operator may be used .

Not so Lumo through they are an open access operator and you can travel between Newcastle and Edinburgh only on their own dockets . And also use a version the same 5 car Hitachi train set !
And operate five trains a day each way from Kings x and Edinburgh stoping in Newcastle.

[Breathe]

Originally Posted by nighthawk117

Edinburgh Airport was bought out by an infrastructure company, with the explicit aim of growing the airport and selling it on for a profit. This was clear from the start. For any such plan to work, they need to grow the number of flights for minimum expenditure. This is exactly what they have done.

If they sell it on.. the new owners are going to want to recoup their money as quick as possible, which means further growth and minimal expenditure.

Don't expect the terminal situation to change any time soon. Any owners are only going to be interested in the short term.

Just to clarify that Global Infrastructure Partners, despite it's name is not an infrastructure company. It is a private equity firm that makes investments in infrastructure companies. Sadly I do concur that all GIP are interested in are making as much profit from the airport with as little investment as they can get away with. Unless new owners have longer term ambitions, perhaps with a an airport operator on board like i.e. an airport partner like ADP, Dubai Airports Company etc.

Incheon Airport were looking at making a bid back when BAA were forced into selling the airport. One wonders what might have been if they had made a successful bid. More here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...id-to-mull-bid

[Breathe]

Originally Posted by tartan 201

United: ORD, IAD, EWR (all daily)
Delta: BOS, JFK (both daily), ATL (five-weekly)
Virgin: MCO (twice-weekly)

​​​​​​Wednesdays should see nine transatlantic flights: the above plus Air Canada and WestJet to Toronto. Pretty impressive and would be even more so if AA restarted (no idea if they will).

I've read that AA are meant to be announcing their S23 transatlantic routes fairly imminently. If they have enough aircraft and crew I could see them restarting PHL with a 787-8.

[Breathe]

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB
AA - PHL
BA - LGW
Iberia Express - MAD

[Planeraz]

Originally Posted by Breathe

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB
AA - PHL
BA - LGW
Iberia Express - MAD

Emirates - Yes
American - Yes (possibly a surprise extra route)
BA - No
Iberia - No
Edelweiss switch to Swiss mainline.

[CabinCrewe]

Originally Posted by Breathe

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB - Possibly, but not nailed on
AA - PHL - No
BA - LGW - No
Iberia Express - MAD - No

[GrahamK]

Originally Posted by Breathe

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB
AA - PHL
BA - LGW
Iberia Express - MAD

No, No, No, Yes

[Asturias56]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Wouldn't argue with that - full size trains for a start - I was thinking about journey times

Normally a lot fewer stop to Edinburgh - makes it seem a LOT shorter

[NotanAVGeek]

It’s fantastic for the airport to have so many transatlantic flights now. It really is incredible but one wonders where they will be parked. It’s often a struggle at the best of times for stands and with even more traffic next year. All it takes is a technical issue with an aircraft (let’s be honest it is pretty frequent) then they are screwed for space. Even today there was a United 767 delayed 7 hours, a Delta ended over at cargo after developing a tech issue.

Will be interesting to see if AA and EK return.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They're not all planned to be on the apron at the same time, e.g. one United pushes to make way for another arriving, same with Delta. It's hot-gating if you will, like Glasgow in it's first few transatlantic years before the new Intl Pier...

[NotanAVGeek]

Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot

They're not all planned to be on the apron at the same time, e.g. one United pushes to make way for another arriving, same with Delta. It's hot-gating if you will, like Glasgow in it's first few transatlantic years before the new Intl Pier...

I’m well aware of that, however today being a prime example of struggling when only 2 are on the deck and a QR. Could be double this at any one time next year. Also doesn’t help the usual QR stand is still not operational after last weeks incident with the jetbridge.

TK have also been using a wide body a bit more frequently too.

[tartan 201]

Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot

They're not all planned to be on the apron at the same time, e.g. one United pushes to make way for another arriving, same with Delta. It's hot-gating if you will, like Glasgow in it's first few transatlantic years before the new Intl Pier...

I don't think it's quite that simple Looking at Wednesdays in S23, the arrival and departure times are scheduled to be:

EWR 0805 - 0940
ORD 0825 - 1130
BOS 0835 - 1335 BOS aircraft goes out to JFK
YYZ (AC) 0835 - 1015
MCO 0850 - 1110
JFK 1005 - 1035 JFK aircraft goes out to BOS
ATL 1005 - 1205
IAD 1045 - 1230

A >65 minute delay to EWR and a >30 minute delay to AC, and everything else arriving on schedule, would see all of the above on the ground at the same time. There's also QR DOH 0650 - 0820 and WestJet YYZ 0905 - 1025.

[Planeraz]

Originally Posted by tartan 201

I don't think it's quite that simple Looking at Wednesdays in S23, the arrival and departure times are scheduled to be:

EWR 0805 - 0940
ORD 0825 - 1130
BOS 0835 - 1335 BOS aircraft goes out to JFK
YYZ (AC) 0835 - 1015
MCO 0850 - 1110
JFK 1005 - 1035 JFK aircraft goes out to BOS
ATL 1005 - 1205
IAD 1045 - 1230

A >65 minute delay to EWR and a >30 minute delay to AC, and everything else arriving on schedule, would see all of the above on the ground at the same time. There's also QR DOH 0650 - 0820 and WestJet YYZ 0905 - 1025.

As many have commented, it’s a nice problem to have so many long haul services. This summer, at most times, UA have been allocated the 1-4 gates. 1-3 can accommodate 752’s at the same time. Gate 4 can take up to a 777 and a 359. AC and Delta have been allocated 13-18. 13 can take up to a 763/788. AC on a number of occasions used 12. Steps only gate. The other gates can take all the wide-bodies, but not at the same time. The crazy set-up means all pax arriving into these gates must be cleared before departing pax can board. The airport must surely have known this would happen. The same issue happens at gates 1-4. Smacks of a cheap option, badly designed terminal extension. Gate 11 can accommodate 788’s and a 333. This gate in the past accommodated Etihad aircraft. BA then appeared to monopolise this gate for a time. As we know, for now, BA have slashed departures from EDI. I’m not sure why they don’t use this gate more often for DL or AC. The only ideal solution, would be a multi level satellite terminal, like they have at Heathrow. This would obviously come at a huge cost and is very unlikely to happen with the current owners.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I think we're actively looking for problems now. In all fairness, there is no real reason why you couldn't use the South East pier and bus arrivals if needs be. It can take at least up to B767 size on some gates.....
They're not in a position, nor have an ROI to build much else at the moment. They've surely reached the limit of what the original 1977 terminal can deal with in terms of bolt-ons.

[Asturias56]

Have to keep space for the Head of States terminal after Independence as well of ocurse