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Edinburgh-4

Old 31st May 2024, 09:15
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Best ignore the ranting, from both sides
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Old 31st May 2024, 09:23
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Originally Posted by GrahamK
Best ignore the ranting, from both sides
The ranting from the Glasgow end , and the gloating from the Edinburgh end ?
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Old 31st May 2024, 09:38
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Let's say that based on the current seat maps for Edinburgh's newest transatlantic carrier, loads are currently 82% inbound and 60% outbound for tonight's and tomorrow's flight. Not too bad given it's just started! But as are all aware I'm sure, seat maps aren't representative of what airlines actually see. Might even be higher or lower than 30%
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Old 31st May 2024, 10:29
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How are the competing flights to Toronto faring? I would have thought that the later schedule from West jet would be more attractive than the 0900 Air Canada departure, essentially meaning being in the airport by 0700.
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Old 31st May 2024, 10:31
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Originally Posted by inOban
How are the competing flights to Toronto faring? I would have thought that the later schedule from West jet would be more attractive than the 0900 Air Canada departure, essentially meaning being in the airport by 0700.
I checked flights a couple of days ago, full in business and only a couple of empty seats in economy, roughly 96% or so by my count

Last edited by GeorgeNTravels; 31st May 2024 at 18:59.
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Old 31st May 2024, 10:34
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Originally Posted by Planeraz
Good point. QR continue to do very well. They also continued to provide vital services during the pandemic. Despite the attempts of Sturgeon and co to destroy the Scottish aviation sector. The American and Canadian routes also doing very well, this early in the season. Bumper summer season ahead despite the almost hysterical and paranoid anti EDI contributions you can read on another forum. Some very questionable stats being spewed out and how dare EDI have all the long haul routes. Surely a strong Scottish aviation sector should be welcomed?
You just never learn do you?

I said that the loads were taken using the data I had available and even edited the post to say it might not be 100% accurate.

I also mentioned where I first found out about the B6 loads and provided the seat map for last night to show that the date I looked at might be a one off.

By your own logic the 100% load on ORD-EDI is also "very questionable"
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Old 31st May 2024, 10:52
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Edinburgh Airport Consultative Committee - 6 May, 2024.

Some mentions about capex:

https://pie1-word-view.officeapps.li...wdMobileHost=2

2. Capital Investment

2.1 Projects in development, design & delivery


Project / Initiative Name - Stage - End Date
31393 - Terminal Infrastructure Expansion - Development - Dec-28
30713 - East Access Road - Design - Jan-28
30875 - Security Futures - Delivery - Jan-25
31235 - Major Runway - Rehab Design - Mar-26
31247 - COP - Global Air Park - Delivery - Jan-26
31253 - Water Quality - Design - Aug-26
31334 - Low Carbon Heat Network - Design - Nov-26
31340 - WDF Main Extension - Delivery - Jun-24
31344 - Echo Taxiway Bay Rehabilitation - Delivery - Apr-24
31360 - US Pre Clearance - Development - Jan-26
31393 - Terminal Infrastructure Expansion - Development - Dec-28

2.2 Summary of key projects

Water Quality
Value £20m


We are working closely with SEPA on the Water Quality project which provides an enhanced ability to capture de-icing runoff. It will improve the water quality across all adjacent watercourses.


Global Airpark Phase 1
Value £6m


The Global Airpark project will provide additional cargo capacity at the east of the campus near Turnhouse.


US Pre-Clearance
Value £5m


The purpose of pre-clearance is for US-bound passengers to clear US immigration and customs before flying. The project will require collaboration with UK and US government departments and multiple EAL stakeholders and the addition of a new technology and services partner to the business.


Echo Taxiway Rehabilitation
Value £3m


The Echo taxiway rehabilitation project involves the full-scale removal and reinstatement of the taxiway.


2.3 Projects Commentary


· In 2023 the final year capital expenditure figure was £31m, an increase of £14m from 2022. A total of 131 separate capital projects were underway in the period.


· In 2024 the number of projects will be 118, and the forecast capital expenditure increases by £24m to £55m.


· The team continue to future proof the airport and map out projects to improve the airport longer term but are also heavily involved in solutions to immediate issues when and where they require input.

Terminal Infrastructure Expansion
Value £58m


The Terminal Expansion project is a long-term project to address operational capacity issues. The project will be delivered in multiple phases over the next seven years.


EAST Access Road
Value £21m


The EAST Access Road project will provide resilience to the airport, creating a 2nd access from the Gogar Roundabout interchange. The project is currently on hold following the rejected planning application.


Security Futures
Value £21m


The Security Futures project commenced construction in June 2023. The project provides enhanced security control within the passenger search area and is a rolling installation programme. The first lane went live in April 2024.


Major Runway Rehab
Value £20m


The runway is approaching end of life and the resurfacing exercise will be undertaken in winter 2025-26.
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Old 31st May 2024, 12:58
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Originally Posted by inOban
How are the competing flights to Toronto faring? I would have thought that the later schedule from West jet would be more attractive than the 0900 Air Canada departure, essentially meaning being in the airport by 0700.
Both very busy, as is YYC.

Jetblue off to a slow start, but it's very early days.
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Old 31st May 2024, 18:10
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Originally Posted by Planeraz
Good point. QR continue to do very well. They also continued to provide vital services during the pandemic. Despite the attempts of Sturgeon and co to destroy the Scottish aviation sector. The American and Canadian routes also doing very well, this early in the season. Bumper summer season ahead despite the almost hysterical and paranoid anti EDI contributions you can read on another forum. Some very questionable stats being spewed out and how dare EDI have all the long haul routes. Surely a strong Scottish aviation sector should be welcomed?
EDI is basically at this point the "Scotland" airport envisioned back in the 60s out around Falkirk/Grangemouth, and in actual fact Gordon Dewar pretty much described it as such himself recently. GLA is done, look at the latest losses by AGS as well. It'll exist but it will not be a competitor to EDI.
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Old 31st May 2024, 20:58
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Originally Posted by inOban
The airport were celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Qatar flights today. It could be argued that this was a key event in the establishment of EDI as Scotland's #1 longhaul airport.
Glasgow's demise totally coincidental since the SNP came to power in 2007 of course, and they had absolutely no influence behind closed doors whatsoever re influencing airlines choice of airport to serve the central belt, it's not the SNP way with their open honest and transparent government up there -
Edinburgh 1st -



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Old 31st May 2024, 21:14
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Originally Posted by J Kev
EDI is basically at this point the "Scotland" airport envisioned back in the 60s out around Falkirk/Grangemouth, and in actual fact Gordon Dewar pretty much described it as such himself recently. GLA is done, look at the latest losses by AGS as well. It'll exist but it will not be a competitor to EDI.
Yup, Highlands and Islands, Palma, Alicante, Tenerife etc, LHR, maybe retain FRA and AMS, ICE will eventually go with the flow to Edinburgh and only a matter of time for calls for a reinvigorated go at a rail link to Edinburgh from Glasgow and the west, and Aberdeen and Inverness in the north east to serve 'Scotland'.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 07:44
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The danger is that the passenger experience at EDI will continue to deteriorate - more flights, more pax, more shops, more delays and more queues.

Both Manchester and Birmingham show this effect. Not places you'd chose to use TBH
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 08:13
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
The danger is that the passenger experience at EDI will continue to deteriorate - more flights, more pax, more shops, more delays and more queues.

Both Manchester and Birmingham show this effect. Not places you'd chose to use TBH
TBH I think a lot of airports are not overly pax friendly throughout the world but if they have the routes and frequency then they will be utilised. EDI has done a great job in attracting and retaining and will.grow and develop (and me being ex Glasgow local)..

Last edited by nivsy; 1st Jun 2024 at 08:36.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 08:48
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The airport is predicting 19m pax in around four years time, Around 4m more than the current 15m. Quite some growth. Which airlines will deliver the growth? What new routes are likely?
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 09:13
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Not too sure if this is relevant to the demise of GLA, but its located at the west of the city (Paisley), so not as centrally located as EDI in terms of serving the rest of Scotland. GLA is good for serving the west coast of Scotland though, but eg driving from Perth its half an hour quicker to EDI.

I also wonder if somewhere like Airdrie or Motherwell is closer to EDI than GLA. What EDI needs though is a better road connection into the terminal as it's usually very busy trying to access from the M8/M9.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 10:04
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An interview with Gordon Dewar talking about the benefits of the US Customs preclearance system.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...united-states/

A Scottish airport plans to double its capacity to and from the United States with a groundbreaking gateway plan.

The country’s busiest airport has held discussions with United States Border and Customs Protection over creating an American “border” in Scotland.

The preclearance system would see US officials based at Edinburgh Airport carry out their checks in this country, allowing passengers to leave the destination airport more swiftly or transfer with greater ease.

As Edinburgh Airport warned that current issues with European hubs around baggage delays are likely to continue, and a longer roll-out of new technology is expected, it also said that while the plans might be more than two years away, it is confident it would bring a significant boost.

In 2022 the US was Scotland’s largest international source market measured by number of visits, nights and spend, with 693,000 trips by American visitors, who also accounted for 21% of all overseas trips to Scotland and 38% of all overseas spend.

Gordon Dewar, chief executive of Edinburgh Airport, said: “We’ve now spoken with CBP, which is the border agency in the US, and they are saying the same, they are willing to work with us if their government signs a UK deal and we can get on with it.

“Given where we are in the election cycle that is not happening in the next five weeks and then of course we go into the American cycle, so my expectation now is that I would like the incoming UK government to be ready to open that discussion as soon as there is a new incoming US government, because it seems unlikely that we are going to get any political time in the diary before then.”

He also said there is a wider appetite for the move in America: “We are seeing lots of positive debate, there is a whole delegation of Florida congress representatives that are lobbying in their constituent government on the basis that they want better connectivity for British tourists coming in, for example.

“There is a growing demand for it. Our lobbying of the UK government is ‘please take the lead’.”

Mr Dewar said: “If you look at the Dublin model, they do four times the American flow that we do in terms of capacity. I’m not saying we could replicate all of that, but I think there is the scope to have at least double in terms of demand and that is a combination of larger aircraft, frequencies but also other destinations as well.

“The other thing in our favour coming that way is new tech, with ultra long-range aircraft coming. That opens up a lot of new opportunities as well, and year-round opportunities.

“So we are really confident it is a major growth. It comes from expanding your surface catchment into north England, but it also means we would get more transfer traffic.”
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 12:09
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Edinburgh scores on a number of points. 1. Location - it’s easy (by road) from Glasgow to EDI but not so from Edinburgh to GLA. 2. The name. Much of EDI’s growth is driven by inbound tourism and the yanks and the Europeans want to visit Edinburgh, not Glasgow. 3. I think there is also a factor that the EDI management have been more proactive in attracting new services than has been the case with the GLA management. However, it is ridiculous to suggest Edinburgh will be a “world class airport for Scotland” under the current management. The runway is clearly falling to bits but the resurfacing is more than a year away and the terminal is a joke, as is the road access at busy times.

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Old 1st Jun 2024, 12:43
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Originally Posted by willy wombat
Edinburgh scores on a number of points. 1. Location - it’s easy (by road) from Glasgow to EDI but not so from Edinburgh to GLA. 2. The name. Much of EDI’s growth is driven by inbound tourism and the yanks and the Europeans want to visit Edinburgh, not Glasgow. 3. I think there is also a factor that the EDI management have been more proactive in attracting new services than has been the case with the GLA management. However, it is ridiculous to suggest Edinburgh will be a “world class airport for Scotland” under the current management. The runway is clearly falling to bits but the resurfacing is more than a year away and the terminal is a joke, as is the road access at busy times.
There isn't a single "world class" airport in UK!

LHR is a world class airport in terms of custom but not in terms of infrastructure, either for aircraft operation or land based providing access for passengers.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 13:48
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Originally Posted by Planeraz
The airport is predicting 19m pax in around four years time, Around 4m more than the current 15m. Quite some growth. Which airlines will deliver the growth? What new routes are likely?
Such exponential growth only comes from three sources Ryanair , Easyjet and Jet2 to the usual suspects in the Med . This will be increasingly a danger to Glasgow if these projections are realised.

That said leisure and flexible fare carriers are in a competitive market with demands for their recourses in the next few seasons.

Demands for those based assets will be highly contested . Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Southampton , even Southend are after some right now . There are of course several frames that must be redeployed away from Gatwick and these will need new homes in 2025 ( Birmingham and Southend are already beneficiaries of the this windfall).
Then there are numerous bases across the EU also chasing those same assets.
In addition to those three , potential legacies such as TAP, ITA, and perhaps Austrian may be tempted.

Moving on to long haul growth imho it will taper off somewhat, aspirationally another Chinese carrier maybe, Singapore an Indian carrier and Saudia seem plausible.
Honestly I am of the opinion peak US has effectively been reached - tweaks perhaps, but someone ( JetBlue likely) is going to fail on the New York run soon enough.
Same for Canada ,especially Toronto and Air Canada .
Frankly through the real and pressing issues must surely be infrastructure or lack of it !




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Old 1st Jun 2024, 18:03
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Originally Posted by inOban
The airport were celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Qatar flights today. It could be argued that this was a key event in the establishment of EDI as Scotland's #1 longhaul airport.
I would say Continental opening EDI-EWR in 2004 was the key moment. The first scheduled daily long haul flight, and not a MAN tag on as initially thought. It was that proof of concept and the ability to compare GLA and EDI directly on a like for like basis that set the cat among the pigeons. BAA choosing to sell off EDI was the next catalyst IMHO.
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