Gatwick-3
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https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/money...wick-boss.html
Virgin has made clear to us they certainly will be maintaining their slot portfolio. We do expect Virgin and Delta to start flying in the months ahead.'
GAL telling the same old story about BA and how airlines are queuing up for their slots, are they, really?
also can anyone shed any light on the quote above regards to VS? GAL saying they will be maintaining their slot portfolio, I thought under the current slot waiver rules if an airline withdraws from an airport all together they lose their control of those slots for good?
as for VS and DL to start flying at LGW in the coming months
Virgin has made clear to us they certainly will be maintaining their slot portfolio. We do expect Virgin and Delta to start flying in the months ahead.'
GAL telling the same old story about BA and how airlines are queuing up for their slots, are they, really?
also can anyone shed any light on the quote above regards to VS? GAL saying they will be maintaining their slot portfolio, I thought under the current slot waiver rules if an airline withdraws from an airport all together they lose their control of those slots for good?
as for VS and DL to start flying at LGW in the coming months
Pier 6 extension is small-scale in the general order of things, and being undertaken by one of the airports' two owners should not have required them to go out and get loans for its construction; that should have been able to come from existing earnings and not required them to go for a financial loan for it.
Regarding operating expenses for the last 18 months, some businesses have been better than others at reducing their outgoings.
Regarding operating expenses for the last 18 months, some businesses have been better than others at reducing their outgoings.
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Given that it meant the A380 stand had to be moved to Pier 5, which required the resurfacing of the taxiways leading to it and the stand itself to be completely rebuilt, plus the rerouting of an entire taxiway around the new extension, plus the extension itself, it’s not exactly a small and inexpensive project.
Aside from closing entirely, I’m also not sure what more you expected Gatwick to do? All but about 4 stands were completely closed at the height, everything else was switched off. The majority of infrastructure is still switched off. At the current traffic levels, Gatwick is going to struggle to pass 10 million passengers this year, which will mean two years at less than 25% of 2019 figures, and around 70 million fewer passengers than expected over that period. That’s a lot of lost revenue.
Aside from closing entirely, I’m also not sure what more you expected Gatwick to do? All but about 4 stands were completely closed at the height, everything else was switched off. The majority of infrastructure is still switched off. At the current traffic levels, Gatwick is going to struggle to pass 10 million passengers this year, which will mean two years at less than 25% of 2019 figures, and around 70 million fewer passengers than expected over that period. That’s a lot of lost revenue.
When you put it like that, they should have said to Emirates they'd prefer them to use B77Ws.
There's no business case for this for one stand for one airline for an aircraft they've stopped building.
There's no business case for this for one stand for one airline for an aircraft they've stopped building.
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Possibly, but you could say the same for any airport that’s been modified to handle the A380. Does LHR T3 need six A380 capable stands? Did the 340-344 stands need to be reconfigured? The answer was no even pre-Covid.
Emirates bring a huge amount of revenue to an airport, both directly and indirectly. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Emirates bring a huge amount of revenue to an airport, both directly and indirectly. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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SOF - don’t forget EK 380 was three flights daily at LGW so maybe not as ridiculous as you suggest to build the new EK stand at LGW. GLA modified a stand for the 380 for one flight a day for only 6 months a year.
Pier 6 at LHR has 4 A380 stands but they're not exclusively used for the Super heavy. They did have SQ, QF and two EK departures back pre T2 opening so the additional 2 stands were contingency as BA also came to use A380s out of T3. LGW had one A380 stand on Pier 6 for their one operator, but I think Gate 110 was part of the Pier 6 extension so change was needed?
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Stand 110 and 111 were used by other aircraft too. As you say with the pier 6 extension the 109/110/111 end of the pier was impacted so if GAL wanted an A380 stand they had to invest anyway in upgrading an existing stand.
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The 340-344 stands were reconfigured long before BA showed up with the A380. Even 301 was rarely used for the A380 once Singapore moved to T2. Perhaps the A380 stands at T4 would’ve been a better example of the point I was trying to make.
110 at LGW was ideal as it was the closest stand (NT - no ST stands would’ve been suitable without a significant rework of that part of the airfield) to the existing infrastructure that allowed LGW to be used as a diversion airport for the A380, which was basically the standby runway and parallel taxiway, as well as the closest stand to the taxiway next to the tower. It was a bit of a nightmare on the inside as the stand it replaced was designed for 150 passengers, not 500+, not to mention it was a 10 minute walk from the departure lounge and, most importantly for EK, their business class lounge. The stand did have parking for two smaller aircraft (110L/R) but even 111 couldn’t be used for a flight departing at a similar time due to the boarding gate congestion.
The new stand (558) is now mostly used as two stands (557/559) by narrow bodies. This was how it was used pre-Covid for based EZY aircraft that were arriving after the last A380 departure in the evening and/or leaving before the first A380 arrival in the morning. Great when it works, not great when every morning departure had a slot and the stand/s were still occupied when the A380 arrived
The EK A380 will be back at Gatwick. There are a lot of A380 capable stands around the world which will never see an A380 again.
110 at LGW was ideal as it was the closest stand (NT - no ST stands would’ve been suitable without a significant rework of that part of the airfield) to the existing infrastructure that allowed LGW to be used as a diversion airport for the A380, which was basically the standby runway and parallel taxiway, as well as the closest stand to the taxiway next to the tower. It was a bit of a nightmare on the inside as the stand it replaced was designed for 150 passengers, not 500+, not to mention it was a 10 minute walk from the departure lounge and, most importantly for EK, their business class lounge. The stand did have parking for two smaller aircraft (110L/R) but even 111 couldn’t be used for a flight departing at a similar time due to the boarding gate congestion.
The new stand (558) is now mostly used as two stands (557/559) by narrow bodies. This was how it was used pre-Covid for based EZY aircraft that were arriving after the last A380 departure in the evening and/or leaving before the first A380 arrival in the morning. Great when it works, not great when every morning departure had a slot and the stand/s were still occupied when the A380 arrived
The EK A380 will be back at Gatwick. There are a lot of A380 capable stands around the world which will never see an A380 again.
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I too am intrigued about VS. The CEO was quoted towards the end of last year that a return to LGW had not been completely ruled out (hence the decision to retain their slots at the airport). However, he did make clear that LGW operations would not be reinstated in the short term, given the current situation, and the recent drive to reduce losses and operational costs by consolidating London operations at LHR. That said, the recent expansion of leisure flying by the airline in the Caribbean including the return to UVF might be the reason why VS' return to LGW is being flagged up again. After all, it was the leisure network that has historically been based at LGW, so who knows. Virgin might also be watching JetBlue's upcoming entrance to LGW, in addition to Norse Atlantic, although I suspect this is relatively minor in the bigger scheme of things. I suspect a return to Gatwick will become clearer once slot utilisation rules change, in which case VS will be forced to either use them or lose them permanently. It would be nice to have them back at LGW.
I too am intrigued about VS. The CEO was quoted towards the end of last year that a return to LGW had not been completely ruled out (hence the decision to retain their slots at the airport). However, he did make clear that LGW operations would not be reinstated in the short term, given the current situation, and the recent drive to reduce losses and operational costs by consolidating London operations at LHR. That said, the recent expansion of leisure flying by the airline in the Caribbean including the return to UVF might be the reason why VS' return to LGW is being flagged up again. After all, it was the leisure network that has historically been based at LGW, so who knows. Virgin might also be watching JetBlue's upcoming entrance to LGW, in addition to Norse Atlantic, although I suspect this is relatively minor in the bigger scheme of things. I suspect a return to Gatwick will become clearer once slot utilisation rules change, in which case VS will be forced to either use them or lose them permanently. It would be nice to have them back at LGW.
Looks like a few BA shorthaul could be on the cards for winter 21…I looked on BAwebsite and there are flights to TFS and ACE and FAO showing in November ..hopefully better news for LGW🙏
How much are LHR slots worth at the moment? They have slots they aren't using at LHR/LGW which other airlines would like to have - can't go on indefinitely.
Last edited by SWBKCB; 19th Aug 2021 at 08:39.
Is the Virgin hangar at LGW closed permanently now? What about the North Terminal Clubhouse? Has it been stripped out for re-use yet?
LGW could well be cheaper to operate from for some of the Beach Fleet routes but the core clientele that make the money like their lounges and Virgin experience, so the Clubhouse would likely need some proper re-investment. It may also depend on how the inevitable churn on LHR slots means VS can get hold of some more. They may also be using the albeit minor threat of Gatwick to apply pressure on HAL not to crank fees up again.
LGW could well be cheaper to operate from for some of the Beach Fleet routes but the core clientele that make the money like their lounges and Virgin experience, so the Clubhouse would likely need some proper re-investment. It may also depend on how the inevitable churn on LHR slots means VS can get hold of some more. They may also be using the albeit minor threat of Gatwick to apply pressure on HAL not to crank fees up again.
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Would the clubhouse need investment? VS only moved over to the North in January 2017 ( I think) BA’s S terminal lounges are lovely so would expect the same from VS ones in the North still.
I don’t know but would doubt anything has been done to it since VS left, no other airline would have a use for it and VS and GAL hinting (however likely/ unlikely) at a return I would think it would just be mothballed for now
I don’t know but would doubt anything has been done to it since VS left, no other airline would have a use for it and VS and GAL hinting (however likely/ unlikely) at a return I would think it would just be mothballed for now
I could be wrong but I read the space had been cleared to be re-used, hence they'll need to invest to put it all back, Cos otherwise they've been paying rent on the space when they have no flights operating or planned which given the cash situation seems unwise, unless they were locked into a long term lease. Anyone know?
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Skipness One Foxtrot
oh, ok fair enough. Interesting if it has been cleared for reuse, not sure what use, can’t see any need for more retail or other lounges for a long time and, (I don’t see it happening) but GAL are quick to talk up a VS return so to clear their lounges out is an interesting move.
I too would be Interested to know
oh, ok fair enough. Interesting if it has been cleared for reuse, not sure what use, can’t see any need for more retail or other lounges for a long time and, (I don’t see it happening) but GAL are quick to talk up a VS return so to clear their lounges out is an interesting move.
I too would be Interested to know