Gatwick-3
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The slot waiver specifically doesn’t apply here, because you have to operate some of them. An airport that you pull out of, you can’t protect the slots, for obvious reasons.
The slot waiver specifically doesn’t apply here, because you have to operate some of them. An airport that you pull out of, you can’t protect the slots, for obvious reasons.
The space will be repurposed by Gatwick Airport for another tennant, I don't think it will be mothballed in readiness for any return years from now as there's no return on the money being spent. As for Virgin, they have financing til the end of the year and then if key markets are not open in volume then they're back to refinancing again. A return to LGW would be a medium term "nice to have", survival with a LHR/MAN focus is all right now.
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Downwind_Left
true but, sorry what I meant was when VS left they said they would retain the slots, I believe.
if the slot waivers are abolished surely either VS either have to come straight back or give up the slots?
I would have though BA not bringing back their short haul operation would be of much bigger concern to GAL than VS not returning
true but, sorry what I meant was when VS left they said they would retain the slots, I believe.
if the slot waivers are abolished surely either VS either have to come straight back or give up the slots?
I would have though BA not bringing back their short haul operation would be of much bigger concern to GAL than VS not returning
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Skipness One Foxtrot
the checkin area is no big deal really, the atrium/self service area of N terminal zone A was modified for VS but wouldn’t take much to make it generic again. As for their lounges in the 4th floor, not sure GAL would, as mentioned above would mothball in case VS return. On the other hand, not sure what use the 4th floor lounges would have for anyone else in the N terminal. You already have mylounge and number1 lounge, Emirates (a smaller operation) and aspire lounges on other levels
with demand lower for years to come and lack of ‘premium’ airlines, I can’t see any use for the ex VS lounges in the N terminal
the checkin area is no big deal really, the atrium/self service area of N terminal zone A was modified for VS but wouldn’t take much to make it generic again. As for their lounges in the 4th floor, not sure GAL would, as mentioned above would mothball in case VS return. On the other hand, not sure what use the 4th floor lounges would have for anyone else in the N terminal. You already have mylounge and number1 lounge, Emirates (a smaller operation) and aspire lounges on other levels
with demand lower for years to come and lack of ‘premium’ airlines, I can’t see any use for the ex VS lounges in the N terminal
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With secondary slot trading permitted in the UK, VS can retain ownership of all of their LGW slots if they find another operator to lease them too. It might be more difficult just now, but LGW is still an attractive airport so it might be possible to do one, or multiple deals to avoid returning slots to the pool.
With secondary slot trading permitted in the UK, VS can retain ownership of all of their LGW slots if they find another operator to lease them too. It might be more difficult just now, but LGW is still an attractive airport so it might be possible to do one, or multiple deals to avoid returning slots to the pool.
I don't see demand being lower for years, once vaccine is globally available beyond a certain point, most countries NEED the trade to help pay off COVID debts, perhaps with a few exceptions. But demand is clearly massive albeit pent up and many people are accumulating large cash cushions they're dying to spend. I am pretty cynical, (no really I am!) but summer 2022 should be a boom summer, if not back to 2019 levels just yet. There will likely be some panicked restrictions as seasonal virus does it's thing in winter but most of us will be vaccinated.
The key disruptor event may be with LHR slots being freed up as some companies collapse or don't return which may well restrict a return to long haul at Gatters. China Airlines really doesn't want to be at LGW for example as they're at a competitive disadvantage against EVA being at LHR. BA have not retired their A320 fleet in large numbers, if you see that happening, then look to LGW being massively downsized. The only unscheduled withdrawals thus far have been the B747-400s and the 2 LGW based B777s to Teruel for "storage". The LGW A319s are rotating through LHR to keep them active.
The key disruptor event may be with LHR slots being freed up as some companies collapse or don't return which may well restrict a return to long haul at Gatters. China Airlines really doesn't want to be at LGW for example as they're at a competitive disadvantage against EVA being at LHR. BA have not retired their A320 fleet in large numbers, if you see that happening, then look to LGW being massively downsized. The only unscheduled withdrawals thus far have been the B747-400s and the 2 LGW based B777s to Teruel for "storage". The LGW A319s are rotating through LHR to keep them active.
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Ex. Virgin Atlantic North Terminal check in area
I wonder if TUI might be relocated there (Zone A), as they have a fairly sizeable operation at LGW (once things are fully up and running again that is). Other contenders could be the yet-to-be announced Norse Atlantic operation mirroring the ex. DI network, although I suspect this is more likely to be South Terminal once it reopens. Hard to tell given the times at present, but I'm suspecting the space will be taken over by an airline with a fairly sizeable presence at the airport, given how large the check in zone/bag drop area is. It doesn't make sense logistically to have an airline permanently based there with small passenger flow while the rest of the space is unused.
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I think it would make more sense now for IAG anyway to consolidate BA wholly as the hub carrier at Heathrow, and restructure/downsize Gatwick to a Vueling base for the short-haul, point-to-point lesiure traffic. In any case, cannot see IAG wanting to let go of a significant number of their Gatwick slots longer term.
What's the point in setting up a Vueling base? They'd have to establish yet another British AOC with all the overheads and cost and spread over only one low cost base. BA LGW shares many costs with the parent, a blessing and a burden, but the days of high cost BA Gatwick are gone. If IAG want to be at LGW, BA was the AOC to use IMHO. There's not many more costs left to cut....
What this does is pressure Sean Doyle into having a business plan to take to the IAG Board they can buy into for the brave new world of post COVID. He could fight for a future at LGW but he'd need a strategy and focussed business plan. I don't think Accra or Doha were strategic moves, more like desperate tactical ones.
Maybe consolidating B777 long haul at LHR might be a halfway house to survival, with a smattering of paid off A320s based at LGW. Rename it British Airtours if you have to!
What this does is pressure Sean Doyle into having a business plan to take to the IAG Board they can buy into for the brave new world of post COVID. He could fight for a future at LGW but he'd need a strategy and focussed business plan. I don't think Accra or Doha were strategic moves, more like desperate tactical ones.
Maybe consolidating B777 long haul at LHR might be a halfway house to survival, with a smattering of paid off A320s based at LGW. Rename it British Airtours if you have to!
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southside bobby
Dear God, please no for the sake of everyone at the airline, and of course LGW. Airports all over the world have been hit hard by this awful pandemic, but LGW in particular has taken a lot of beatings over the past year compared to some of the other London airports with the loss of VS and DI long haul. At this point I’m preying BA don’t go either- there will come a time, post pandemic, when LHR fills back up again and airlines will be looking to once again serve London. With this in mind, surely it makes sense for BA to retain their LGW base in the knowledge that if they leave, likelihood is that they won’t be able to return once air travel takes off again (I’m thinking of Wizz Air and EasyJet swooping in on their slots). Not everyone wants to have to trek down to LHR, be it for short or long haul
Dear God, please no for the sake of everyone at the airline, and of course LGW. Airports all over the world have been hit hard by this awful pandemic, but LGW in particular has taken a lot of beatings over the past year compared to some of the other London airports with the loss of VS and DI long haul. At this point I’m preying BA don’t go either- there will come a time, post pandemic, when LHR fills back up again and airlines will be looking to once again serve London. With this in mind, surely it makes sense for BA to retain their LGW base in the knowledge that if they leave, likelihood is that they won’t be able to return once air travel takes off again (I’m thinking of Wizz Air and EasyJet swooping in on their slots). Not everyone wants to have to trek down to LHR, be it for short or long haul
I think this is partly a case of Gallego wanting to own and rubber stamp the decision that Walsh made last year himself. Whilst there are definite short term difficulties the outlook is far more positive than it was at Easter and early summer last year. Given at that time Walsh made the decision to retain a presence at Gatwick, it is difficult to see what would reverse that decision given that the outlook certainly for Summer 2022 is far better (providing a modicum of sanity returns to the equation from HMG). Let’s face it though this has been very difficult to predict from day one so I very certainly could be wrong.
Don’t forget also that LGW is on its knees right now and IAG/BA may be wishing to extract further concessions, they’d be foolish not to at least try. As Skipness says above the Airbus fleet has remained largely untouched, until BA/IAG issue a press release to say we are terminating our LGW operations this is pinch of salt territory, but still enormously stressful for the remaining BA employees at Gatwick.
Don’t forget also that LGW is on its knees right now and IAG/BA may be wishing to extract further concessions, they’d be foolish not to at least try. As Skipness says above the Airbus fleet has remained largely untouched, until BA/IAG issue a press release to say we are terminating our LGW operations this is pinch of salt territory, but still enormously stressful for the remaining BA employees at Gatwick.
Last edited by Plastic787; 20th Jun 2021 at 08:16.
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well this is depressing to read and also caught me a bit by surprise. I had thought having restarted ops a year ago at LGW and limping along as they have that the LGW operation may have been OK.
who knows how much of a review this is or whether it’s a done deal, only time will tell, awful news potential for LGW, the local area and the good folk at BA LGW who have been through this only a year ago
who knows how much of a review this is or whether it’s a done deal, only time will tell, awful news potential for LGW, the local area and the good folk at BA LGW who have been through this only a year ago
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The Telegraph says that the order has come from parent company IAG – possibly implying that British Airways management is not in favour – which is paranoid about the long term impact of losing take-off and landing slots at Heathrow.
As we have covered many times on Head for Points since covid appeared, an airline has to use an airport slot on 80% of dates. If it fails to do so, the slot is automatically forfeited and made available to any other airline which wants it.
There are two slot ‘seasons’, Winter and Summer, with switchover dates in late March and late October. There are separate slot pools for each season.
Since Spring 2020, the slot rules have been suspended. With some caveats, British Airways can run as few flights as it wants at present with no risk of having the slots taken away.
At some point, possibly next Spring but almost certainly in Autumn 2022, this waiver will end.
Without a waiver, British Airways will have to start running its full pre-covid schedule or it will start to forfeit slots. This simply isn’t possible – with the retirement of the Boeing 747 fleet, I doubt it has enough aircraft to do so, even if it wanted to.
Without a slot waiver, moving British Airways flights from Gatwick to Heathrow is the easiest – and probably only – way to ensure that the airline keeps its full slot portfolio.
Luis Gallego, chief executive of IAG, reportedly told analysts last month that:
“Gatwick is an important decision that we need to take as a group. It’s true that we have the issue with the slots.
“Gatwick has some strategic value, but we need to be competitive there. This crisis is going to change the profile … of the demand. So we are analysing the different options.”
As we have covered many times on Head for Points since covid appeared, an airline has to use an airport slot on 80% of dates. If it fails to do so, the slot is automatically forfeited and made available to any other airline which wants it.
There are two slot ‘seasons’, Winter and Summer, with switchover dates in late March and late October. There are separate slot pools for each season.
Since Spring 2020, the slot rules have been suspended. With some caveats, British Airways can run as few flights as it wants at present with no risk of having the slots taken away.
At some point, possibly next Spring but almost certainly in Autumn 2022, this waiver will end.
Without a waiver, British Airways will have to start running its full pre-covid schedule or it will start to forfeit slots. This simply isn’t possible – with the retirement of the Boeing 747 fleet, I doubt it has enough aircraft to do so, even if it wanted to.
Without a slot waiver, moving British Airways flights from Gatwick to Heathrow is the easiest – and probably only – way to ensure that the airline keeps its full slot portfolio.
Luis Gallego, chief executive of IAG, reportedly told analysts last month that:
“Gatwick is an important decision that we need to take as a group. It’s true that we have the issue with the slots.
“Gatwick has some strategic value, but we need to be competitive there. This crisis is going to change the profile … of the demand. So we are analysing the different options.”