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Gatwick-3

Old 14th Dec 2021, 12:48
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There is actually a bit of a sea-change hidden within this announcement, I think. Of late, the mantra has been very much that whatever happens at Gatwick must not be allowed to impact on Heathrow - the only really duplicate routes have been domestics (predominantly for long-haul leisure feed) and Amsterdam (much the same). Adding Berlin and Madrid at Gatwick together with also continuing to serve some of the routes at Heathrow looks to be a relaxation of that policy if indeed it hasn't been taken out completely.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 13:08
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Originally Posted by Flightrider View Post
There is actually a bit of a sea-change hidden within this announcement, I think. Of late, the mantra has been very much that whatever happens at Gatwick must not be allowed to impact on Heathrow - the only really duplicate routes have been domestics (predominantly for long-haul leisure feed) and Amsterdam (much the same). Adding Berlin and Madrid at Gatwick together with also continuing to serve some of the routes at Heathrow looks to be a relaxation of that policy if indeed it hasn't been taken out completely.
Interesting point of view, actually. MAD is obviously an IAG hub and BER seems to be a strong point of sale for BA - the E-190s have been shuttled through on the way to STN/MAN/SOU over the years. ATH in the summer is a no-brainer and was one of the first "long" routes for LCC's back in the day. Quite a number of 'leisure' flights remain at Heathrow, so that might be playing into the mix too.

In any case it looks like a decent summer schedule and one which should be able to stand on its own two feet - the destinations are mainly O&D, as you say.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 14:05
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Yes I agree a decent initial schedule. Don't forget these routes are the initial network for next Summer. Over the next two or three years, I am sure it will expand and diversify some more.
It will be interesting how the Winter schedule will look. Maybe more city breaks, ski flights etc... and some charters. However, with contracts in place that
allow for the greater seasonality at Gatwick the offering should be more sustainable.
I am surprised at the omission of Edinburgh. It carried a few hundred thousand per year pre-covid and could still support twice daily frequency now.
Likewise, I am sure Gatwick -Jersey in addition to the Heathrow service could do well as a summer seasonal.

However, I expect initial fleet size has meant some routes may have to wait. There may be more more domestics further down the line as demand recovers. The original plan was to increase base size by 3 aircraft a year for several years after 2022.
As the feet expands there may be more scope for route additions.
It would be a plus if the the new subsidiary is permitted to develop routes more independently of the mainline operation. Interesting times.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 17:07
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2022 vs 2019

Agreed with the above comments that a lot of the 'new' short haul network essentially mirrors that of pre-covid, albeit with some nice additions like BER, ATH and MXP. How does the new network compare to pre-2019 in terms of based aircraft and routes? The noticeable route changes I see so far are that JER no longer features as does FCO, which is a shame, as this had been a route long served by BA at LGW, although I suppose VY are taking it over while BA consolidates this route to LHR. However, I note that it (FCO) is still featured on BA's timetable to/from LGW.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 17:34
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Iíll predict ATH will be a one season wonder ex LGW.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 18:00
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
Why would BA want a gate for their A380Ö what route did you have in mind? Unless all the LAS MCO LHR shift condensed back at LGW.
What's BA's fattest LH route at LGW year round?
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 18:04
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
Iíll predict ATH will be a one season wonder ex LGW.
So the route is not even on sale 24 hours yet and you are predicting failure. Perhaps it's in the waiting room to move back to Lhr!
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 18:17
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British Airways will reinstate Gatwick to New York next summer, initially as a Summer Seasonal. Gatwick to Orlando has also been been made twice daily from Gatwick for next Summer. If the
Heathrow Summer flight continues that will be 3 daily London to Orlando next Summer. However the thrice weekly summer seasonal Gatwick to Las Vegas I believe has been removed.
At the moment Summer 2022 is looking like BA Long Haul at Gatwick will need 12 based 777. This compares with 15 in Summer 2019. Still some way to go but a steady recovery from 2020 and 2021.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 18:58
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
So the route is not even on sale 24 hours yet and you are predicting failure. Perhaps it's in the waiting room to move back to Lhr!
True Blue, There will always be those who are reluctant to accept that BA and other airlines can be successful at Gatwick. I believe that after the pandemic and Heathrow determined
to raise charges, Gatwick will do quite well for itself in the next few years. Yes, Heathrow yields may be higher but that means higher fares too! We shall just have to wait and see.
I am pleased that BA (in all its forms) will have a meaningful presence back at Gatwick next Summer. Probably at least 12 based 777 and 18 short haul Airbus aircraft with more to come in future years.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 20:22
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I flew LGW-ATH on BA something like 30 years ago and came back to LHR. Why did they drop they route?
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 20:53
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Brilliant news. Iím so pleased to see a considerable BA presence returning to Gatwick, both long and short haul. It will be great to see the South Terminal back in action too

Originally Posted by vectisman View Post
True Blue, There will always be those who are reluctant to accept that BA and other airlines can be successful at Gatwick. I believe that after the pandemic and Heathrow determined
to raise charges, Gatwick will do quite well for itself in the next few years. Yes, Heathrow yields may be higher but that means higher fares too! We shall just have to wait and see.
I am pleased that BA (in all its forms) will have a meaningful presence back at Gatwick next Summer. Probably at least 12 based 777 and 18 short haul Airbus aircraft with more to come in future years.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 00:42
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Originally Posted by vectisman View Post
True Blue, There will always be those who are reluctant to accept that BA and other airlines can be successful at Gatwick. I believe that after the pandemic and Heathrow determined
to raise charges, Gatwick will do quite well for itself in the next few years. Yes, Heathrow yields may be higher but that means higher fares too! We shall just have to wait and see.
I am pleased that BA (in all its forms) will have a meaningful presence back at Gatwick next Summer. Probably at least 12 based 777 and 18 short haul Airbus aircraft with more to come in future years.
Balance sheets are gutted and debt is growning alarmingly, and no one knows what the post COVID world will look like, anyone who says they do is lying. So the magic dartboard of route planning will be deployed once more, some will hit, some will miss. Until we get a view on business travel bounceback the LHR/LGW split will be less clear cut than before. It also astonishes me that EDI is missing off the list, and it's hard to suggest profits are so fat at LGW that BA staff had to take yet another kick over wages. There'll be 1-2 years of post COVID settling in before the new world is bedded in and we'll know what works where. But LGW is like LHR in that their balance sheet is in tatters, so they can't afford to cut user charges by much, if at all.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 00:44
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Originally Posted by Hartington View Post
I flew LGW-ATH on BA something like 30 years ago and came back to LHR. Why did they drop they route?
Because LGW-ATH cannibalised LHR-ATH, the same for many duplicated routes like JFK, MIA. Latterly only a few like GLA/EDI/AMS and JFK/LAS/YYZ operated over both, with LGW the overspill for the long haul trio there.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 09:58
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BA using the 380 from LGW wouldn’t make sense. Especially from an IROPs point of view
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 10:53
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
Balance sheets are gutted and debt is growning alarmingly, and no one knows what the post COVID world will look like, anyone who says they do is lying. So the magic dartboard of route planning will be deployed once more, some will hit, some will miss. Until we get a view on business travel bounceback the LHR/LGW split will be less clear cut than before. It also astonishes me that EDI is missing off the list, and it's hard to suggest profits are so fat at LGW that BA staff had to take yet another kick over wages. There'll be 1-2 years of post COVID settling in before the new world is bedded in and we'll know what works where. But LGW is like LHR in that their balance sheet is in tatters, so they can't afford to cut user charges by much, if at all.
Random and probably wrong thought but could the lack of domestics and poor times on some other routes be lining up for some kind of deal with Easyjet - either partnership or buy out. Competition concerns are reduced if they are not competing already on those domestic routes and if they have to give up slots on the other competing routes they give up the unattractive ones like ALC-LGW at 2:30am.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 11:21
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Originally Posted by BA318 View Post
lining up for some kind of deal with Easyjet - either partnership or buy out.
Random indeed. I can see no connection or short term likelihood.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 13:35
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
Random indeed. I can see no connection or short term likelihood.
Easyjet has been rumoured to be fancied by several groups. The synergies between BA and Easy would be huge.

BA and Easy also recently agreed the slot leasing deal too rather than let Wizz or Ryanair.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 13:54
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I very much doubt any move towards an acquisition. The regulators for one would have a field day! The primary reason for the slot leasing deal is that both airlines have an interest in keeping Ryanair and Wizzair from expanding at Gatwick. As the BA short haul and probably the long haul fleet expands the slots will be returned.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 14:39
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No more London Airways.
Until "Easyjet Regional" was spun off
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 16:37
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
Because LGW-ATH cannibalised LHR-ATH, the same for many duplicated routes like JFK, MIA. Latterly only a few like GLA/EDI/AMS and JFK/LAS/YYZ operated over both, with LGW the overspill for the long haul trio there.
I think the historic BA thinking that LHR=Business and LGW=Bucket and Spade is consigned to the pages of history. Itís apparent now that a lot of leisure routes can be just as profitable as a business route, especially when business travel demand is reduced.

There is already a lot of overlap between LHR and LCY on many routes. Since it looks like LGW will be initially at least run by LCY management, they will be well aware that high demand routes running from 2 or 3 of the BA London airports should be able to co-exist without being detrimental to each other.

Looks like Amsterdam, Berlin, Faro, Glasgow, Ibiza, Malaga, Milan, Nice, Palma and Santorini will be served from all 3 airports. With many other cities being served from 2 of the 3. (I note Milan is split across LIN (LCY/LHR) and MXP (LGW/LHR))
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