Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Gatwick-3

Old 28th Aug 2021, 21:08
  #341 (permalink)  
772
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
that’s very true and accurate. As you rightly say, Summer peak BA LGW was at up to 90ish departures a day precovid, winter ranged from 35 to 45ish departures a day.

the five months of winter, November through to March. November was always very quiet as was early December. Mid to late December it picked up, BA LGW cleverly added NUE and CGN to target the Christmas markets, also RVN and KTT Lapland charters, it then dropped off again in January and built through February and March with increased ski destinations and March saw med destinations pick up.

canaries also were popular in winter due to their climate.

The winter period in general, and especially the the main lean periods of November and early December and January would need, from BAs point of view, some ability to maybe have periods of unpaid leave, part time working etc to aid cost saving and aid flexibility.

im thinking aloud but possibly some staff being full time for summer and reduced hours over winter or with periods of enforced unpaid leave would all help BA.
772 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2021, 21:36
  #342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Or alternatively annualised hours - some our LA workers are paid the same every month, regardless of how many hours they work. Obviously if they exceed the annual figure, overtime kicks in.
inOban is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 00:32
  #343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When did above the BA above wing handling go to GGS? I guess it was when they moved back to the North Terminal? When you say the BA staff "left the business", I am hoping you meant TUPED across to GGS?

I wonder if BA Engineering would have to bid to cover maintenance for their own fleet once more?

As for the new name for the LGW based short haul leisure operation, I am surprised that no one has suggested "British Airtours"..... LOL it's not really brand aligned for 2021 alas.
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 07:42
  #344 (permalink)  
772
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
August 2020 above wing went to GGS. No, I meant left the business all together, approx 15% of above wing staff TUPED across.

Last edited by 772; 29th Aug 2021 at 08:09.
772 is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 07:55
  #345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: 41000ft
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm very surprised the unions are tolerating this to be honest. They've been very protective in the past of a fear Cityflyer pilots may be used on 'mainline' operations to undercut mainline T&Cs.

If this happens and is successful it's only a matter of time, IMO, before they look to do similar at Heathrow short haul before moving onto the long haul stuff.

Standard divide and conquer from IAG.
cavokblues is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 08:22
  #346 (permalink)  
772
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/0...twick-carrier/

interesting read. I agree with you regards it being the thin end of the wedge but at a time like this and with the prospect of increased work and jobs with LGW SH returning, not really something BALPA can be seen to be being against or blocking
772 is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 08:55
  #347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: 41000ft
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Very interesting read, thank you for the link. That article seems quite bewildered as to what the gain is in doing it!?
cavokblues is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 09:13
  #348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 5,431
Received 22 Likes on 12 Posts
If the article is correct this isn't really a Low Cost operation - it's just a slightly cheaper version of BA.

They won't be able to compete IMHO
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 09:36
  #349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Joined 2005 was Alycidon
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This doesn't make any sense, BA tried to lower the cost base before by franchising the branded product with GB Airways, BMed, Maersk and BRAL, then tried a Low Cost operation with GoFly, and before that, EOG (Dan Air) crews were on different Ts and Cs, which proved difficult to integrate with mainline. BA should stick to what they are good at (while they still remember how to do it) and not try to enter the LCC world where they have absolutely no chance at all of bringing down the unit cost to RYR and WIZZ level.

They put mainline pilots into BRAL on the 146 and denied BRAL crews promotion and the Union stuffed its own members by allowing it, the same will happen again.

As daft ideas go, this is up there with Utopia/World Image.
D9009 is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 09:54
  #350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Somerset
Posts: 166
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As for the new name for the LGW based short haul leisure operation, I am surprised that no one has suggested "British Airtours"..... LOL it's not really brand aligned for 2021 alas.

Surely Go is the best name or perhaps in view of the new BA CEO's nationality, Go On
Blackfriar is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 09:58
  #351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Somerset
Posts: 166
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Asturias56

Doesn't it need to be a British company and if so would HQ in Dublin or Madrid be a problem?
Blackfriar is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 10:09
  #352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: London
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I still can't see it's worth the hassle of setting up a separate AOC and all the associated complexity compared to the savings that will be made.

BA CityFlyer is at least a distinct operation from mainline and has a degree of relative autonomy, which this new AOC won't have.

nguba is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 10:14
  #353 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Somerset
Posts: 166
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've said it numerous times, from a business point-of-view, BA long haul needs to be a full-service airline competing globally. Short-haul is just another LoCo. The only thing stopping this is the legacy and unions, but if it doesn't it will die and the Union members will end up in a LoCo anyway, if at all.
Premium short-haul flying will go to the many private charter executive jets, which, with a bit of intelligent systems and marketing, could ensure flights were paid for each way with few dead-legs. The rest of the short-haul flyers will put up with an hour and a half in a narrow seat for £30 each way.
Blackfriar is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 10:17
  #354 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Asturias. I think they will be competitive. Gatwick SH was profitable before Covid. The use of more seasonal contracts will ensure it will remain competitive in the quieter winter months. All ground staff are now part of GCS. (Another wholly owned subsidiary) pilots and cabin will also be on amended contracts. The engineering base will continue as a stand alone unit that will have to continue to compete for work both inside and outside the IAG group. At the moment the unit is kept busy with some line maintenance, looking after parked aircraft and a Vueling maintenance contract.
The situation may not be ideal but in the current climate probably better than no jobs at all. We shall have to see.
vectisman is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2021, 15:32
  #355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
vectisman

True of many operations. Financial centres like Frankfurt or Zurich fall right away in August and over Christmas/New Year, but can sell the whole aircraft as Club for a German trade fair in February, which is why having the flexibility to do both gives a significant advantage. Must say that BA Cityflyer at LCY seem to be more past masters at managing this than most others.
WHBM is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2021, 00:30
  #356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If BA short haul is only a loco why in the name of God would anyone flying in Business Class connect over London on BA? No point flying in a long haul flat bed only to be stuck in a middle bolt upright Pinnacle when you're at your most tired. It's not that simple for a network carrier.
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2021, 08:13
  #357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But surely that argues for different short haul products at LGW and LHR. Despite BA’s best efforts (remember the “hub without the hubub”?) LGW has never been a hub in the way that LHR is/was.
willy wombat is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2021, 09:52
  #358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: London
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BALPA members are being balloted on the proposals. Up to 17 short haul aircraft at Gatwick in summer 2022:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ary-at-gatwick
nguba is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2021, 11:11
  #359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
presumption being with some minor concessional negotiations they’ll accept given the circumstances
How long this venture would last in that format is anyones guess
CabinCrewe is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2021, 13:51
  #360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: London
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BA at Gatwick

How does 17 short haul aircraft compare to the size of the fleet pre Covid?
wallp is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.