Southampton-3
Know of it and have read it. Am still amazed at the apparent proposed new Stand 1, push back from this Stand should keep ATC amused having to push past three Stands on to TWY A. The document needs an update as it was written in the days of Fly-be with an anticipated hoard of resident Q400s, no longer the case.
If LCCs are part of the development both the runway extension and somewhere more to park A320 sized aircraft is going to be needed. Apart from the novel Stand arrangment for 1-4, no further Stands capable of handling nose-in A320s. Which I believe was the gist of what was being discussed.
Time for me to ramble off for a cheeky little red, or two.
If LCCs are part of the development both the runway extension and somewhere more to park A320 sized aircraft is going to be needed. Apart from the novel Stand arrangment for 1-4, no further Stands capable of handling nose-in A320s. Which I believe was the gist of what was being discussed.
Time for me to ramble off for a cheeky little red, or two.
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As always River Joint a very rude and unnecessary reply by you,TCAS FAN has given us a comprehensive review of and if the airport handles a number of 320 movements.
However this is no way certain,and what's more the master plan surely has to be revised considering the pandemic implications for avaition in the future.
I suggest your over optimistic view of the airport is more out of touch then many of us.
However this is no way certain,and what's more the master plan surely has to be revised considering the pandemic implications for avaition in the future.
I suggest your over optimistic view of the airport is more out of touch then many of us.
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For once I am agreeing with RW20 and feel your comments regarding TCAS are unfair, in any case, I cannot see 4-5 based aircraft being at SOU for the next few years so I think your point is also slightly misjudged. The Masterplan is already out of date due to Covid and hence there will be no need for a terminal expansion, stand 1 being in a ridiculous location or stands on the NE of airfield for some time. Being realistic, the best the airport can hope for with the extension (of which I am confident will be approved on Thursday) is for BA to become a more permanent fixture and maybe a 1 or 2 aircraft base max for either Wizz/EZY. If not then W patterns from other bases will be the way to go!
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stewyb
Was merely putting a check mark against potential misinformation. I am all for healthy debate and speculation but TCAS FAN's post are often taken as gospel given his technical knowledge (not his fault). I am sure TCAS FAN is an adult and can handle a bit of opposition which indeed it looks like he has. I think you siding with someone who revels in people's livelihoods being destroyed is a bit much. Lets not turn this thread back into a point scoring exercise for the usual suspects. This thread has been much more positive lately.
The masterplan might be out of date, but in its basic form it still represents how SOU feel the airport could develop going forward. Of course it is all dependent on circumstance but I do not think something obvious like that needs to be pointed out.
As for stand 1, I am pretty sure BE use to park aircraft behind stands 2-5 late at night. I cannot see how the new arrangement will be much of a departure from what already exists. I am pretty sure tugs are sophisticated enough to facilitate such parking arrangements. Not ideal no, but still manageable. People often seem to miss that stand 14 can accommodate larger aircraft as well. I have seen numerous larger aircraft use it and one was parked there for a few days after going tech once.
I am minded to agree with your comments about BA and Wizz/EZY. I think BA will prove to be a runaway success when holidays are finally allowed as the catchment can afford to pay the premium they charge over a low cost operator. Wizz/EZY will almost certainly test the waters with aircraft based elsewhere. The country does seem to be moving towards doing more things locally though, which is good news for regional airports and bad news for the big London airports.
As for the runway extension itself, the following paragraph from the planning statement seems to confirm what its purpose will be:
"7.9. From a usage perspective, the runway extension will be utilised as a turning and starting point for larger or more laden aircraft taking off in a southerly direction. The extension will only be utilised by aircraft taking off and heading south, it will not be used by aircraft landing or taking off to the north. Effectively the additional surface allows those aircraft taking off in a southerly direction to have an extended take-off area by moving the aircraft turning area further north".
Was merely putting a check mark against potential misinformation. I am all for healthy debate and speculation but TCAS FAN's post are often taken as gospel given his technical knowledge (not his fault). I am sure TCAS FAN is an adult and can handle a bit of opposition which indeed it looks like he has. I think you siding with someone who revels in people's livelihoods being destroyed is a bit much. Lets not turn this thread back into a point scoring exercise for the usual suspects. This thread has been much more positive lately.
The masterplan might be out of date, but in its basic form it still represents how SOU feel the airport could develop going forward. Of course it is all dependent on circumstance but I do not think something obvious like that needs to be pointed out.
As for stand 1, I am pretty sure BE use to park aircraft behind stands 2-5 late at night. I cannot see how the new arrangement will be much of a departure from what already exists. I am pretty sure tugs are sophisticated enough to facilitate such parking arrangements. Not ideal no, but still manageable. People often seem to miss that stand 14 can accommodate larger aircraft as well. I have seen numerous larger aircraft use it and one was parked there for a few days after going tech once.
I am minded to agree with your comments about BA and Wizz/EZY. I think BA will prove to be a runaway success when holidays are finally allowed as the catchment can afford to pay the premium they charge over a low cost operator. Wizz/EZY will almost certainly test the waters with aircraft based elsewhere. The country does seem to be moving towards doing more things locally though, which is good news for regional airports and bad news for the big London airports.
As for the runway extension itself, the following paragraph from the planning statement seems to confirm what its purpose will be:
"7.9. From a usage perspective, the runway extension will be utilised as a turning and starting point for larger or more laden aircraft taking off in a southerly direction. The extension will only be utilised by aircraft taking off and heading south, it will not be used by aircraft landing or taking off to the north. Effectively the additional surface allows those aircraft taking off in a southerly direction to have an extended take-off area by moving the aircraft turning area further north".
cavokblues
Unfortunately that's never going to happen, until we get to near noiseless electric aircraft. The hours are dictated by a Section 106 Agreement with the local LPA which takes into account noise control measures.
As long as airlines do not schedule flights within the night hours specified in the 106 they can operate during these hours if flights are delayed. As was the case with Fly-be on many occasions the delayed flight could legally operate but the airport did not have the staff availability to cover the extended hours, resulting in PAX ending up at best in BOH, or EXT, BRS, BHX.
Unfortunately that's never going to happen, until we get to near noiseless electric aircraft. The hours are dictated by a Section 106 Agreement with the local LPA which takes into account noise control measures.
As long as airlines do not schedule flights within the night hours specified in the 106 they can operate during these hours if flights are delayed. As was the case with Fly-be on many occasions the delayed flight could legally operate but the airport did not have the staff availability to cover the extended hours, resulting in PAX ending up at best in BOH, or EXT, BRS, BHX.
Last edited by TCAS FAN; 22nd Mar 2021 at 08:44.
Rivet Joint.
That planning statement 7.9 would indicate that the extension will not be added to the ASDA or LDA on 02. So no gain in performance with northerly winds.
That planning statement 7.9 would indicate that the extension will not be added to the ASDA or LDA on 02. So no gain in performance with northerly winds.
The documents submitted with the planning application indicate a slight increase (22 metres) in 02 TORA/ASDA/LDA, nothing to get excited about.
Last edited by TCAS FAN; 22nd Mar 2021 at 12:49.
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TCAS FAN
Regarding loading on stands 6-12,I recall seeing a loaded air europa 757 parked South facing on where stands 11-12 are now( student exchange times)
With this in mind ,surely this area could take a loaded 320?
Regarding loading on stands 6-12,I recall seeing a loaded air europa 757 parked South facing on where stands 11-12 are now( student exchange times)
With this in mind ,surely this area could take a loaded 320?
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Southampton is a London City, trying to be a Bournemouth. Stick to what you are good at and let aircraft performance enhancements come to Eastleigh. I wonder how far you could fly full regularly with an 190-E2 or an A220?
RW20
I'm sorry that a determination of this is beyong my area of expertise. Am aware that there have been isolated cases of larger aircraft marshalled on to 11-12, still remember the IL-76, so there may be some tolerance for such one-off events, Whether or not with a bearing strength of PCN 23/F/C/Y/T Stands 11-14 can frequently sustain a loaded A320 is something that maybe another thread reader can comment on?
I'm sorry that a determination of this is beyong my area of expertise. Am aware that there have been isolated cases of larger aircraft marshalled on to 11-12, still remember the IL-76, so there may be some tolerance for such one-off events, Whether or not with a bearing strength of PCN 23/F/C/Y/T Stands 11-14 can frequently sustain a loaded A320 is something that maybe another thread reader can comment on?
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Surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here already today, but the runway extension planning committee meeting is taking place at the moment. It started at 10am and may conclude by midnight (!), if not it'll be reconvened tomorrow.
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Very telling don’t you think about the motives of a lot of the posters on this thread. All quiet when there is nothing bad to jump on.
I have been dipping in and out of the updates and it looks like it is leaning towards permission being given. Fingers crossed.
I have been dipping in and out of the updates and it looks like it is leaning towards permission being given. Fingers crossed.
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/191...wVp3fnHwH3Cm7k
I could copy and paste some of the comments that made me chuckle, people do come out with ill informed drivel and some emotional blackmail thrown in for good measure
I could copy and paste some of the comments that made me chuckle, people do come out with ill informed drivel and some emotional blackmail thrown in for good measure
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Rivet Joint
I believe it's more telling that your delusional thinking seems to have no bounds.It would be great for the thread if you took a step back from your constant digs of posters who don't hold your views,but are equally entitled to there opinions.
I believe it's more telling that your delusional thinking seems to have no bounds.It would be great for the thread if you took a step back from your constant digs of posters who don't hold your views,but are equally entitled to there opinions.
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For balance BBC reports when the meeting was adjourned three Councillors out of eight on the committee had given their views with two opposing and one in favour of the plans.
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RW20
Pavement loading considerations take in many factors. The Boeing 757 has a 4-wheel bogey to help weight distribution whereas the A320 family/B737 family tend to have 2-wheel bogeys. A 4-wheel bogey has been seen on the A320 but only as a special modification e.g Air India operating into some airfields. Another example is the Airbus300 fitment of what was called the "La Guardia bogey" ...six Eastern Airways A300's were fitted with wider bogeys to accommodate taxiway weight distribution restrictions.
If I was an airline operator I would be looking at a number of features such as the LDA [landing distance available] on RW20 of 1605 metres after a 3.1 degree ILS approach.......the proposed extension will not affect that. The approach light system is a little "quaint". There is no CAT2/CAT3 low visibility operation. There is history of a jet airliner over-running the end of RW20.
I've flown in/out of Southampton many times, my family and I love the place for its regional airport-sized efficiency and rapid transit [except the Mickey Mouse comical scenes of keeping arriving domestic and foreign passengers separate using tapes and Hi-Viz jacket marshalls to stop intermixing/crossing paths on the way to the arrivals hall] I don't care what the decision is really.....I just want some planes back so that I can fly again.
P.S. Some of you may remember the Air Berlin flights...gosh!!...that motorway looks awful close!! Loved the Dash 8's .......kapow!!!...landed.....aircraft carrier style retardation. I miss FLYBE so much. Regards to all
Pavement loading considerations take in many factors. The Boeing 757 has a 4-wheel bogey to help weight distribution whereas the A320 family/B737 family tend to have 2-wheel bogeys. A 4-wheel bogey has been seen on the A320 but only as a special modification e.g Air India operating into some airfields. Another example is the Airbus300 fitment of what was called the "La Guardia bogey" ...six Eastern Airways A300's were fitted with wider bogeys to accommodate taxiway weight distribution restrictions.
If I was an airline operator I would be looking at a number of features such as the LDA [landing distance available] on RW20 of 1605 metres after a 3.1 degree ILS approach.......the proposed extension will not affect that. The approach light system is a little "quaint". There is no CAT2/CAT3 low visibility operation. There is history of a jet airliner over-running the end of RW20.
I've flown in/out of Southampton many times, my family and I love the place for its regional airport-sized efficiency and rapid transit [except the Mickey Mouse comical scenes of keeping arriving domestic and foreign passengers separate using tapes and Hi-Viz jacket marshalls to stop intermixing/crossing paths on the way to the arrivals hall] I don't care what the decision is really.....I just want some planes back so that I can fly again.
P.S. Some of you may remember the Air Berlin flights...gosh!!...that motorway looks awful close!! Loved the Dash 8's .......kapow!!!...landed.....aircraft carrier style retardation. I miss FLYBE so much. Regards to all
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I loved FLYBE too, they opened-up so many opportunities for us in Southampton, and I frequently used them to destinations as diverse as Amsterdam, Dublin, Newcastle, Dusseldorf and even Skiathos!
When I was a regular FLYBE user, on nearly all of the flights I took many of the passengers were people undertaking 'friend and family' visits, on some flights these made up the majority of the passengers. Early mornings and mid-evenings, it was mainly business traffic, often out and back in the day. There were also a surprisingly large number of passengers on their way to join a cruise at Southampton, particularly I found on flights from Glasgow, Belfast and Dublin.
Although the travel world has been shot to pieces by COVID, much of this traffic will surely return. Whilst we all hope that the runway extension gains approval, I still feel all those who support SOU must remain positive, as, although we won't have gained what we are hoping for, we have lost nothing. Southampton has a great future as a super little airport, and will surely bounce back and will continue to serve the needs of the region just as it always has done. And, with the likes of Eastern, Blue Islands, Aurigny, Logonair, BA City Flyer, and KLM stepping in, we won't have all our eggs in one basket. Onwards and upwards!
When I was a regular FLYBE user, on nearly all of the flights I took many of the passengers were people undertaking 'friend and family' visits, on some flights these made up the majority of the passengers. Early mornings and mid-evenings, it was mainly business traffic, often out and back in the day. There were also a surprisingly large number of passengers on their way to join a cruise at Southampton, particularly I found on flights from Glasgow, Belfast and Dublin.
Although the travel world has been shot to pieces by COVID, much of this traffic will surely return. Whilst we all hope that the runway extension gains approval, I still feel all those who support SOU must remain positive, as, although we won't have gained what we are hoping for, we have lost nothing. Southampton has a great future as a super little airport, and will surely bounce back and will continue to serve the needs of the region just as it always has done. And, with the likes of Eastern, Blue Islands, Aurigny, Logonair, BA City Flyer, and KLM stepping in, we won't have all our eggs in one basket. Onwards and upwards!