Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Southampton-3

Old 1st Jun 2022, 18:54
  #781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SKOJB
Best news we’ve heard all day!
​​​​​​Really?
​​​​The domestic schedule is constricting substantially,take Manchester for example ,there are now no flights from Southampton!,it wasn't long ago when there were multi departures !. Southampton PAX have been very disappointing ,looking at CAA April figure for example ,the airport is compared to all regional airports very depressed.
Its essential that the runway extension is started to allow Southampton to allow profitable larger aircraft to operate,without it the future of the airport is unsure.
RW20 is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2022, 19:27
  #782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waters edge
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Eastern & Aurigny news



with thanks to @Seanm1997 on Twitter

FF
Flitefone is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 13:17
  #783 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,247
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
From the Airport Expansion Opposition Southampton (AXO) website:

"Obviously we are very disappointed in the judge’s finding against the judicial review, though there remains the possibility of an appeal. Our main concern is for the changing climate and local people who will end up suffering a lot more aircraft noise. We call on the airport to genuinely engage with the people who will be affected, and to do everything they can to encourage airlines to use less noisy jets. We also call on them to be honest about flying’s damaging effects on the climate (which extend far beyond the ‘direct operations’ they are promising to make ‘net zero’) and the implausibility of ‘green’ aviation being available on a large enough scale in time to avert climate catastrophe.”

Only saying "possibility of an appeal" IMHO this might indicate the end of the road for any further anti runway extension lobbying. Can anyone indicate the time limit for lodging an appeal in respect of the Judicial Review decision? Have tried on line but have no been able to determine it.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 14:20
  #784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
From the Airport Expansion Opposition Southampton (AXO) website:

"Obviously we are very disappointed in the judge’s finding against the judicial review, though there remains the possibility of an appeal. Our main concern is for the changing climate and local people who will end up suffering a lot more aircraft noise. We call on the airport to genuinely engage with the people who will be affected, and to do everything they can to encourage airlines to use less noisy jets. We also call on them to be honest about flying’s damaging effects on the climate (which extend far beyond the ‘direct operations’ they are promising to make ‘net zero’) and the implausibility of ‘green’ aviation being available on a large enough scale in time to avert climate catastrophe.”

Only saying "possibility of an appeal" IMHO this might indicate the end of the road for any further anti runway extension lobbying. Can anyone indicate the time limit for lodging an appeal in respect of the Judicial Review decision? Have tried on line but have no been able to determine it.
‘In cases where permission for judicial review is refused by the High Court, the Appellant's Notice must be lodged within one week (7 days)’


SKOJB is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 15:10
  #785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 43
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
From the Airport Expansion Opposition Southampton (AXO) website:

"Obviously we are very disappointed in the judge’s finding against the judicial review, though there remains the possibility of an appeal. Our main concern is for the changing climate and local people who will end up suffering a lot more aircraft noise. We call on the airport to genuinely engage with the people who will be affected, and to do everything they can to encourage airlines to use less noisy jets. We also call on them to be honest about flying’s damaging effects on the climate (which extend far beyond the ‘direct operations’ they are promising to make ‘net zero’) and the implausibility of ‘green’ aviation being available on a large enough scale in time to avert climate catastrophe.”

Only saying "possibility of an appeal" IMHO this might indicate the end of the road for any further anti runway extension lobbying. Can anyone indicate the time limit for lodging an appeal in respect of the Judicial Review decision? Have tried on line but have no been able to determine it.
Seems the penny has finally dropped for these idiots. What a shame they did not have the sense to engage with the airport from the start rather than wasting everyone’s time and a lot of money in the process.

That aside, this is great news for the airport and hopefully we will see works start very soon. It’s a shame they not also adding the northern taxi link whilst all the equipment is there though.
Rivet Joint is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 15:18
  #786 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No idea why a northern taxiway cannot be put down from Stand 14 to link the runway at the same time, seems bonkers to me when equipment will be on site!
stewyb is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 15:49
  #787 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,247
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by stewyb
No idea why a northern taxiway cannot be put down from Stand 14 to link the runway at the same time, seems bonkers to me when equipment will be on site!
Please excuse me banging on about it, subject of an ancient post of mine prior to Southampton-3 thread, have been there before when the runway was being re-surfaced, contractors and asphalt plant on site, engineer's estimated cost at the time, £40K! Has gone down in history as one of B****y Awful Airport's many SOU c***k ups, together with the Short Term Car Park eastern boundary (preventing Stand 8-11 development) and the Post Office building site (originally part of the airport site-Stand development and even a second Terminal?).

Give AGS credit, they appear to be doing all possible to grow the business, most unlike their predecessors.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 16:19
  #788 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Please excuse me banging on about it, subject of an ancient post of mine prior to Southampton-3 thread, have been there before when the runway was being re-surfaced, contractors and asphalt plant on site, engineer's estimated cost at the time, £40K! Has gone down in history as one of B****y Awful Airport's many SOU c***k ups, together with the Short Term Car Park eastern boundary (preventing Stand 8-11 development) and the Post Office building site (originally part of the airport site-Stand development and even a second Terminal?).

Give AGS credit, they appear to be doing all possible to grow the business, most unlike their predecessors.
Agreed that AGS are doing all they can to improve the airport and this will finally come to fruition shortly. Mistakes have been made by previous owners and one of those was not adding a northern taxiway. Even now (before an extra 164m) you have a long backtrack for 20 departures and all arrivals on 02 are having to turn back on 37m width of runway to then exit at the mid point. Been told this is part of phase 2 developments although will most likely never be done!

Last edited by stewyb; 6th Jun 2022 at 16:55.
stewyb is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 16:56
  #789 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,247
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by stewyb
Agreed that AGS are doing all they can to improve the airport and this will finally come to fruition shortly. Mistakes have been made by previous owners and one of those was not adding a northern taxiway. Even now (before an extra 164m) you have long backtracks for 20 departure and BA arrivals on 02 are having to turn back on 37m width of runway to then exit at the mid point. Things would be so much easier if a small piece of tarmac was laid down. Been told this is part of phase 2 developments although will most likely never be done!
Backtracks on 20 were, in my working days, a pain in the a**e. Agree the extra 164 metres will aggravate the condition.

Remember one of my more memorable backtracks, early on a Saturday morning with a Spanair MD83 about to turn on to the ILS, KLM UK ATR 72 at Hold B when I offered a line-up “MD83 at nine miles can you give me an expeditious backtrack (which they were normally very good at) and immediate take-off?” with a reply “Affirm”.

Decided to go for it, with an impressive backtrack resulting, cleared for immediate take-off, but then lined up and sat there, and sat there. No alternative but to cancel take-off and instruct the MD83 to “go around”. This resulted in a somewhat high decibel response which apparently didn’t go down well with Eastleigh residents that early on a Saturday morning.

That evening’s Southern Echo headline “Seconds from disaster”!

I kept my job, without criticism, although that KLM UK crew were temporarily off my Xmas card list! Appeared that the “cabin securred” call was awaited.

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 6th Jun 2022 at 18:54.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2022, 20:39
  #790 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 43
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by stewyb
Agreed that AGS are doing all they can to improve the airport and this will finally come to fruition shortly. Mistakes have been made by previous owners and one of those was not adding a northern taxiway. Even now (before an extra 164m) you have a long backtrack for 20 departures and all arrivals on 02 are having to turn back on 37m width of runway to then exit at the mid point. Been told this is part of phase 2 developments although will most likely never be done!
Its definitely strange. Ok don’t throw in the works to create larger stands with the runway extension as that really would have been a red flag to the nimbys but the taxiway will help aircraft spending less time on the runway and noise for residents as a result. It’s already an issue with the fairly light traffic the airport sees. Even the arrivals that get in early leave late with the runway backtracking definitely being part of the problem. The taxiway is clearly shown in the latest master plan and hardly requires much tarmac being laid down. Seems a missed opportunity as it’s unlikely to be done in isolation.
Rivet Joint is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 11:32
  #791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: London
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Southampton will have a new runway length of 1,887m with the new extension.

Other airports in the UK with similar runway lengths:

INV 1,887m
NWI 1,841m
BLK 1,869m
SEN 1,856m
BHD 1,829m

Can't think of any others?

Interesting that they all have similar regional type services. This illustrates that the extension is not really a threat at all to BOH and both should be able to continue operating in a complimentary fashion to each other long into the future.

It's essential for SOU to get their extension done fast in order to prevent its existing operators from having to resort to payload penalties with wet/windy/hot conditions. It will unburden easyJet on GVA which at times operates with payload penalties; likewise Loganair with their ERJ-145's which at times have payload issues. I am unsure of any BA Cityflyer payload issues - I would doubt they have any since they operate from LCY with a runway length of just 1,508m!
Sharklet_321 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 12:43
  #792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In a Bar
Posts: 243
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
You have to remember that it is not just runway length that affects RTOW. There are several other factors, one of which is obstacle clearance, which is a significant factor for SOU.
Jn14:6 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 14:46
  #793 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sharklet_321
Southampton will have a new runway length of 1,887m with the new extension.

Other airports in the UK with similar runway lengths:

INV 1,887m
NWI 1,841m
BLK 1,869m
SEN 1,856m
BHD 1,829m

Can't think of any others?

Interesting that they all have similar regional type services. This illustrates that the extension is not really a threat at all to BOH and both should be able to continue operating in a complimentary fashion to each other long into the future.

It's essential for SOU to get their extension done fast in order to prevent its existing operators from having to resort to payload penalties with wet/windy/hot conditions. It will unburden easyJet on GVA which at times operates with payload penalties; likewise Loganair with their ERJ-145's which at times have payload issues. I am unsure of any BA Cityflyer payload issues - I would doubt they have any since they operate from LCY with a runway length of just 1,508m!
As has been mentioned previous, the airport would do well to attract EZY for next summer post extension using non based aircraft from their summer bases of PMI/AGP/FAO in order to test the water for suitability. This would most definitely effect BOH ops from a competition perspective so to assume otherwise is I think rather naive!
stewyb is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 15:32
  #794 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Age: 59
Posts: 2,710
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by stewyb
As has been mentioned previous, the airport would do well to attract EZY for next summer post extension using non based aircraft from their summer bases of PMI/AGP/FAO in order to test the water for suitability. This would most definitely effect BOH ops from a competition perspective so to assume otherwise is I think rather naive!
Indeed so, NWI has a Tui 738 based during the Summer, SEN had an EZY base (and has some EZY Med flights this Summer) and BHD formerly had a RYR base.
Wycombe is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 15:36
  #795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Manchester
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
New operators particularly low cost aren't interested in SOU or any AGS airports. Don't believe me look at the lack of new routes coming out of them. What is SOU going to add that's sustainable and a good deal for an airline? Look at Ryanair's latest expansion today. Not one route from any of the three. BOH got something though, so did NCL so it's not just the big boys. SOU will maintain its usual British Isles and peak summer flights to holiday hot spots and that's it as long as the current lot run it.
Rusty Irish is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 16:19
  #796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rusty Irish
New operators particularly low cost aren't interested in SOU or any AGS airports. Don't believe me look at the lack of new routes coming out of them. What is SOU going to add that's sustainable and a good deal for an airline? Look at Ryanair's latest expansion today. Not one route from any of the three. BOH got something though, so did NCL so it's not just the big boys. SOU will maintain its usual British Isles and peak summer flights to holiday hot spots and that's it as long as the current lot run it.
So are you saying that SOU will have very little return from the runway extension ,except perhaps no restrictions on adverse weather conditions( high temps) on existing aircraft operating?
If so then the small investment that is being implemented won't change things to any degree for the airport Expension and new destinations!
RW20 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 16:44
  #797 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RW20
So are you saying that SOU will have very little return from the runway extension ,except perhaps no restrictions on adverse weather conditions( high temps) on existing aircraft operating?
If so then the small investment that is being implemented won't change things to any degree for the airport Expension and new destinations!
The whole idea of the investment is to attract a LCC in addition to improving current ops and I’m certain this will happen, however on what scale and choice of destinations is yet unknown.

Last edited by stewyb; 7th Jun 2022 at 16:58.
stewyb is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 18:38
  #798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sharklet_321
Southampton will have a new runway length of 1,887m with the new extension.

Other airports in the UK with similar runway lengths:

INV 1,887m
NWI 1,841m
BLK 1,869m
SEN 1,856m
BHD 1,829m

It's essential for SOU to get their extension done fast in order to prevent its existing operators from having to resort to payload penalties with wet/windy/hot conditions. !
You mean like Easyjet did at Southend on those rare hot summer days when a stop en route was sometimes required? Then there were the divisions due to its CAT 1 ILS. Is Southampton CAT 1 both ends? Also is the 1887m available both ends?

Last edited by LTNman; 7th Jun 2022 at 18:49.
LTNman is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 19:12
  #799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SOU is cat 1 ILS only on 20, 02 has poor landing aids with RNAV at best giving a DH at 500feet!
Nowhere near the ILS on both ends of Southend runway!
I'm sure TCAS FAN will give us a definitive comparison of both airports runway .I believe however 02 runway t/o /landing distance is not enhanced by the 20 extension!
Again limited improvement to SOU route development,more improvement to existing load factors in adverse runway conditions.
RW20 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2022, 20:38
  #800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 43
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rusty Irish
New operators particularly low cost aren't interested in SOU or any AGS airports. Don't believe me look at the lack of new routes coming out of them. What is SOU going to add that's sustainable and a good deal for an airline? Look at Ryanair's latest expansion today. Not one route from any of the three. BOH got something though, so did NCL so it's not just the big boys. SOU will maintain its usual British Isles and peak summer flights to holiday hot spots and that's it as long as the current lot run it.
Ok you’re right. A business is just throwing millions of pounds down the drain. A business own by a pension fund by the way, who are as risk adverse as it gets. This fact alone really should stop all the doubters.

Let’s be honest, a big chunk of LGWs passengers come from the areas surrounding Southampton and I’m sure the majority of them would pay a premium to fly from SOU rather than the nightmare that is LGW. SOU does have its own train station and motorway junction which shouldn’t be overlooked. Few airports have this. It is never going to be a huge base but can definitely see a respectable base doing well at SOU. It’s a wealthy area with many second home owners. If EZY don’t move in then im sure the likes of Wizz will which EZY will not want.
Rivet Joint is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.