Isle of Man-3
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Well as I have said before this is a forum for opinions and comments and as long as it is such I will continue to share mine, pointless in your view or not! Anyway in response I would make the following comments
1) I am fully conversant with the way airlines operate their fare structures and the algorithms they use. That said I do not think it right that there can be such a variation in fares. Put it this way how would you feel if your local supermarket wanted to charge you £10 for their last loaf of bread that somebody a little earlier had paid 85p for? In my view its not morally right.
2) I have no desire to place a cap on fares rather I would expect a well known company who likes to at least create the impression of being a low cost airline to do the right thing by its customers. In effect there is some sort of cap the airline use because it stops at say £380 or whatever so if someone at Easyjet thinks that is acceptable I certainly don't especially for a once a day service to Gatwick at random times. I don't expect charity but I do expect a fair price.
3) Consider why Easyjet are flying three times a day to Jersey and their ticket prices are a fraction of those to the Isle of Man are they making no money there?
4) I do not believe that they need to run fares at £380 from London to the Isle of Man to make the route profitable. Its interesting that this has only happened recently when there is only one service a day and no alternative.
5) Its great that you have a schedule that allows you to book in advance maybe other people are less fortunate than you in this matter.
6) I would hazard a guess that the Isle of Man/ LGW route is one of Easyjets most profitable right now.
In summary my opinion is that something needs to be done to urgently improve connectivity and prices from the Isle of Man to London. Airlines, business and the Isle of Man government should be making this a priority to sort this out.
1) I am fully conversant with the way airlines operate their fare structures and the algorithms they use. That said I do not think it right that there can be such a variation in fares. Put it this way how would you feel if your local supermarket wanted to charge you £10 for their last loaf of bread that somebody a little earlier had paid 85p for? In my view its not morally right.
2) I have no desire to place a cap on fares rather I would expect a well known company who likes to at least create the impression of being a low cost airline to do the right thing by its customers. In effect there is some sort of cap the airline use because it stops at say £380 or whatever so if someone at Easyjet thinks that is acceptable I certainly don't especially for a once a day service to Gatwick at random times. I don't expect charity but I do expect a fair price.
3) Consider why Easyjet are flying three times a day to Jersey and their ticket prices are a fraction of those to the Isle of Man are they making no money there?
4) I do not believe that they need to run fares at £380 from London to the Isle of Man to make the route profitable. Its interesting that this has only happened recently when there is only one service a day and no alternative.
5) Its great that you have a schedule that allows you to book in advance maybe other people are less fortunate than you in this matter.
6) I would hazard a guess that the Isle of Man/ LGW route is one of Easyjets most profitable right now.
In summary my opinion is that something needs to be done to urgently improve connectivity and prices from the Isle of Man to London. Airlines, business and the Isle of Man government should be making this a priority to sort this out.
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But pointing out the 11th October is 5x more expensive than the 4th or so on doesn’t change anything. We’re all aware that flights vary in prices. Easyjet exists to maximise the profit it can make for its shareholders - not to keep the people of the Isle of Man connected at reasonable prices. The “low cost” image is just marketing. The same as BA’s premium tag when the reality is most passengers are in economy being charged for baggage, food and seat reservations.
There are many reasons Easyjet might charge the prices they do to Jersey - costs could be much lower (do we know how much each airport charges?, fuel prices at the destination?). It may be that passengers at Jersey buy cheap tickets but also buy more bags than average and spend more on the flight. There are so many decision involved in revenue management that we can’t make assumptions based on the fares available on random dates.
If you can prove to an airline that you can fill a twice daily flight at a cost that keeps them happy then get in touch with them. There’s plenty of regional carriers - most have tried to serve the IOM at some point and left. Why?
Easyjet is either charging fares people will pay or it’s flying empty planes. If people are willing to pay their prices then good on them. They make profit which keeps the industry going. If they are flying empty planes then either they will lower costs or drop the route.
There are many reasons Easyjet might charge the prices they do to Jersey - costs could be much lower (do we know how much each airport charges?, fuel prices at the destination?). It may be that passengers at Jersey buy cheap tickets but also buy more bags than average and spend more on the flight. There are so many decision involved in revenue management that we can’t make assumptions based on the fares available on random dates.
If you can prove to an airline that you can fill a twice daily flight at a cost that keeps them happy then get in touch with them. There’s plenty of regional carriers - most have tried to serve the IOM at some point and left. Why?
Easyjet is either charging fares people will pay or it’s flying empty planes. If people are willing to pay their prices then good on them. They make profit which keeps the industry going. If they are flying empty planes then either they will lower costs or drop the route.
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Well there we have it and the above really does say it all. 1) The low cost image is marketing.......... well well well so its all a facade.2) Its simple re Jersey there are more flights and more competition that's why prices are lower. 3) It exists to maximise profit to shareholders............. companies that do that may benefit in the short term but they will suffer in the long term. Ask anyone who knows about business you look after your customers first and as long as you operate sensibly everything else flows from that.
The term 'LOW COST AIRLINE' is not and never has been a reference to the fares which customers pay. The term quite literally means that the inherent cost of operating the business is kept below those of traditional legacy carriers. This is achieved via the way the business is structured. What the customer actually experiences is a 'NO-FRILLS CARRIER' ... an airline which compartmentalises every aspect of the flying experience and charges by component of the itinerary ... add-on fees for all 'frills'. Note that whilst fares offered by these carriers often are attractively priced, they don't have to be. There is no implied promise that all customers will pay a low fare. These carriers are businesses which exist to maximise profits, and they do this by deploying yield-management software to maximise revenues like every other airline.
The paragraph quoted above is extracted from Post 261 on this thread in which I explained the true meaning of the term: 'Low Cost Airline'.
Why do people doggedly refuse to acknowledge the truth of this? 'Low Cost Airline' is all about the balance sheet. It is not a guarantee of low fares.
The paragraph quoted above is extracted from Post 261 on this thread in which I explained the true meaning of the term: 'Low Cost Airline'.
Why do people doggedly refuse to acknowledge the truth of this? 'Low Cost Airline' is all about the balance sheet. It is not a guarantee of low fares.
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I can assure you I fully understand that point . But I would respectfully suggest you put yourselves in the customers shoes because it’s them who ultimately makes a business successful . I would also hazard a guess over 99% of paying customers do not get your meaning of a low cost airline in post 261 nor should they especially when said airline likes to create the impression of low cost in their marketing . Also when their service is angled towards low cost i.e low frequency, lots of add ins for bags and so on . If you don’t believe me try asking a few !
It might also be worth reflecting on you don’t always have to go to your customers to maximise profit a lot of good businesses focus a lot on how to reduce their costs and maximise efficiencies .
it really is telling that some of you don’t realise the importance of good customer management when running a business ! In my view those businesses that take their customers for granted and operate in this way will by conventional wisdom end up paying the price in the long run .
It might also be worth reflecting on you don’t always have to go to your customers to maximise profit a lot of good businesses focus a lot on how to reduce their costs and maximise efficiencies .
it really is telling that some of you don’t realise the importance of good customer management when running a business ! In my view those businesses that take their customers for granted and operate in this way will by conventional wisdom end up paying the price in the long run .
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If you are contrained to booking late and don't like the cost, I suggest you book early. bag some of those £19.99 fares, and if you cant travel just move the flight. there are zero change fees with easyjet until the end of the year. if you are a flight culb member that's an ongoing benefit.
Last edited by lfc84; 14th Sep 2021 at 14:54.
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Sorry but you’re trying to say you can run a business better than IAG or Easyjet? And it’s not taking their customers for granted. Easyjet offer plenty of cheap fares. If you can’t book in advance then that’s the reality. It’s the same with any airline or rail operator.
You also keep making a point about Easyjet charging for bags. On the base fare so do BA and they usually have a higher entry fare.
Sorry but you’re trying to say you can run a business better than IAG or Easyjet? And it’s not taking their customers for granted. Easyjet offer plenty of cheap fares. If you can’t book in advance then that’s the reality. It’s the same with any airline or rail operator.
You also keep making a point about Easyjet charging for bags. On the base fare so do BA and they usually have a higher entry fare.
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I can assure I do not think I can run an airline far from it however what I do know about business is that if you fail to put your customers first it’s the beginning of the end . If you don’t believe me read any book by any leading businessman . From some of the above posts it seems as though some of you believe charging the customer the highest possible fare is the way to make the most out of the business and I am saying you do that at your peril it’s a very delicate balance. It may be fine now and in the short term off the back of the pandemic but customers have a habit of remembering and in the long run that’s not good for a business . Charging customers ludicrous fares for a short one hour flight that’s once a day and not even well timed or frequent is not good customer service . Especially when in other jurisdictions they are putting on multiple flights a day and charging a fraction of the price . Something does not seem right to me as the customer sorry .
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Problem is if people don't like easyJet's prices or customer service they've nowhere else to go right now.
And if a new airline comes on the route easyjet may just capacity dump and slash prices to see them off the route and entice passengers back.
If customer service meant anything no one would fly Ryanair!
And if a new airline comes on the route easyjet may just capacity dump and slash prices to see them off the route and entice passengers back.
If customer service meant anything no one would fly Ryanair!
But if there is no competition they can't go anywhere can they?
I 've spent years traveling LHR- ABZ and BA have charged eye popping prices most of the time - but it's business travellers who pay them. If I don't want to pay I go Easyjet or whoever else is on the run - or even take train
Plenty of airlines have gone bust by not charging enough - very few by charging too much.
The IoM is a small customer base -and a limited tourist destination. Not surprising you have to pay more than say Jersey
I 've spent years traveling LHR- ABZ and BA have charged eye popping prices most of the time - but it's business travellers who pay them. If I don't want to pay I go Easyjet or whoever else is on the run - or even take train
Plenty of airlines have gone bust by not charging enough - very few by charging too much.
The IoM is a small customer base -and a limited tourist destination. Not surprising you have to pay more than say Jersey
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I think you have hit the nail on the head EasyJet will dump capacity to see others off and then revert back to their previous behaviour that’s what i am getting at with some of their outrageous ticket prices . This is why in my opinion a broader solution is required for a small island one EasyJet a day is fine but frequently matters too so needs to be supplemented with additional frequencies from a smaller airline . The Isle of Man government have a role to play here in some way shape or form .
I think you have hit the nail on the head EasyJet will dump capacity to see others off and then revert back to their previous behaviour that’s what i am getting at with some of their outrageous ticket prices . This is why in my opinion a broader solution is required for a small island one EasyJet a day is fine but frequently matters too so needs to be supplemented with additional frequencies from a smaller airline . The Isle of Man government have a role to play here in some way shape or form .
I always thought that when EasyJet came on the route services wanted by the business community would suffer. The IOM market is too small to justify two or three services a day with +\-130 seat aircraft. The costs of 50 to 70 seat aircraft are too high to offer any seriously low fares. Even the business traveller will buy the lowest fare possible which means the airline offering frequency will lose the marginal traffic that allowed them to make a meagre living. The discretionary traffic will always take the lowest fare leaving the higher frequency airline making huge losses. Before COVID I am sure business travellers took a cheap easyJet fare one way and an expensive Flybe fare the other thus adding to Flybe’s problems. It’s a consequence of deregulation. Deregulation was never going to be good for everyone, especially low volume routes. In the old days Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man had certain routes designated as lifeline routes and London routes were certainly classified as such. This meant only limited operators on those routes. Jersey- London probably has the traffic not to need protecting , Guernsey decided to financially support its own airline which leaves the Isle of Man on its own. Under present regulations, I can only think of one way of providing frequency on the IOM-London routes and that would be to negotiate for it to become a PSO (Public Service Obligation) route. How I am not sure without further study or if it would be acceptable to the politicians. They would be blamed for stopping people having access to cheap fares! It appears there is a monopoly on the sea crossings, is everyone happy with that?As I have said before you can’t please all the people all of the time! An alternative might be to make the Island more desirable to the business sector by stopping the Financial Services companies charging exorbitant fees and making the Island more attractive to tourists by promoting the beauty of the place at affordable rates. That would be a longer term solution and would require a complete understanding as to why Jersey is so successful in the financial sector or if in the present “woke” culture if the offshore company and trust structure is the way to go.
This is such a complex problem which won’t be solved by wingeing on here. The IOM routes are unlikely to make or break easyJet and are probably the least of their problems at the moment.
This is such a complex problem which won’t be solved by wingeing on here. The IOM routes are unlikely to make or break easyJet and are probably the least of their problems at the moment.
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I agree with a lot of your comments here it is definitely a complex issue to solve which in my opinion requires the input from airlines, business and government. I don’t wish to come across as whinging though , my intention is to raise debate on this important matter and personally I find it helpful to hear others views it can further shape my understanding and views. But from my experience just sitting on your hands and saying nothing will only end up with one outcome …. nothing !
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But that’s the point. I think we are all in agreement that it would be lovely to have Easyjet and a carrier operating a smaller more business focused option but the reality is you are stuck with what you have until you change the reality. History has shown, time and again that the business friendly option is not sustainable (airlines drop it) when up against a cheaper, less business friendly schedule.
It would seem your options are:
1. Lobby for restrictions to be brought in - fare caps, route licenses to make Easyjet cheaper, or reduce their frequency to say twice weekly to allow another option in
2. Creation of a local airline. Like Guernsey has which protects their link to Gatwick and can serve the perceived interests of the island. This is a financial black hole though so whoever funds it needs deep pockets.
3. Create demand to sustain more services. Few tourists and no attempt at promotion to the wider world mean few passengers. The local market obviously isn’t enough. The island needs to try to appeal to more. That costs money.
4. Accept the service you have, use it in the hope they add more services or another carrier sees Easyjet coining it on the route and decides to compete.
Perhaps a mix of all four is needed? But the only way it’s going to change at the moment is if the IOM Gov or businesses get involved and start putting their money where their mouth is.
It would seem your options are:
1. Lobby for restrictions to be brought in - fare caps, route licenses to make Easyjet cheaper, or reduce their frequency to say twice weekly to allow another option in
2. Creation of a local airline. Like Guernsey has which protects their link to Gatwick and can serve the perceived interests of the island. This is a financial black hole though so whoever funds it needs deep pockets.
3. Create demand to sustain more services. Few tourists and no attempt at promotion to the wider world mean few passengers. The local market obviously isn’t enough. The island needs to try to appeal to more. That costs money.
4. Accept the service you have, use it in the hope they add more services or another carrier sees Easyjet coining it on the route and decides to compete.
Perhaps a mix of all four is needed? But the only way it’s going to change at the moment is if the IOM Gov or businesses get involved and start putting their money where their mouth is.
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I totally agree . But like I have said isn’t it better to debate some of this and listen to others opinions because that way maybe you end up with the right solution and perhaps those involved ( notably government) might read these forums and that in itself will help them . However maybe it’s me but I get the impression some posters do think the sole answer is EasyJet and I really don’t think it is for a small island .
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It wouldn’t be impossible for the island to incentive easyJet to provide a night stop, easyJet have previously been persuaded by places such as Inverness…..it just depends on the level of funding provided. Based on the abrupt end of the LM LHR service, the level of support is likely to be low.
With occasional dates seeing high fares and overall fares seemingly a little higher, easyJet will add more flights if they deem them to be delivering enough profit, or more than alternative destinations from the LGW network.
With occasional dates seeing high fares and overall fares seemingly a little higher, easyJet will add more flights if they deem them to be delivering enough profit, or more than alternative destinations from the LGW network.
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Who said I haven’t ! Influencing can take place in a number of ways at multiple times. But maybe just maybe there is a chance that some of the key people do read these forums . Isn’t that the great thing about online forums they can potentially help shape thinking . Either that or a) not use them at all or b) just use them to be an extension of the EasyJet marketing department! My view is I will use all the opportunities open to me to ensure my opinion is heard and at the same time I will happily take note of others too . That’s how it should be .
Who said I haven’t ! Influencing can take place in a number of ways at multiple times. But maybe just maybe there is a chance that some of the key people do read these forums . Isn’t that the great thing about online forums they can potentially help shape thinking . Either that or a) not use them at all or b) just use them to be an extension of the EasyJet marketing department! My view is I will use all the opportunities open to me to ensure my opinion is heard and at the same time I will happily take note of others too . That’s how it should be .
Paxing All Over The World
I do not travel to the Island very often now but, when my mother was alive, I was on the route for over 25 years, from early 1980s to 2008. Viscounts, ATP, 146 etc. LHR, LPL, BHX, LTN, LGW.
I agree with the above but, sadly, no change will happen.
I agree with the above but, sadly, no change will happen.
- Your govt have tried various schemes over the last four decades and seen the way that airlines operate: Twice Manx and Twice BA etc. They do not have the money for direct injection. Jersey have been able (for whatever reasons) to maintain a single through line of their arrangement. IOM changed several times.
- Any threat against EZY and their current way of doing things, they will threaten to leave and no one will be jumping in.
- Post Covid, every commercial company is scrabbling to recover money, £1 at a time. As I have said in other forums, restaurant prices have jumped, supermarket prices are up and LHR T5 is going to charge £5 for drop off. Inflation is heading up and I see no let up to this.
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Well there is an election next week and a new government will be formed . They will need to recognise in a world post covid investment will be key . Having strong links with your neighbouring capital is in my opinion strategically important for onward investment . A once a day service at erratic times throughout the week is not the right answer . As one of the posters above put it this is a very complex problem and I don’t doubt it is very challenging especially in today’s world . But sitting around and doing or saying nothing will not help anybody in my opinion it’s far better to be up there forcing a debate and trying to make something happen .