Cardiff-3
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VickersVicount
I did say if or when and as for FR and EZY they both have bases at BRS and rely on the leakage of passengers from Wales to make BRS more profitable and EZY have repeatedly told cwl that they don't see a need to serve Cardiff. Wizz on the other hand don't have a BRS base to protect. As for Wizz expansion I'm sure I read that they want to base 50 aircraft in the UK and currently have 18.
I did say if or when and as for FR and EZY they both have bases at BRS and rely on the leakage of passengers from Wales to make BRS more profitable and EZY have repeatedly told cwl that they don't see a need to serve Cardiff. Wizz on the other hand don't have a BRS base to protect. As for Wizz expansion I'm sure I read that they want to base 50 aircraft in the UK and currently have 18.
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An airline CEO once told me that he could sell out 6 aircraft (probably slightly exaggerating) at CWL during the Summer but nothing in the Winter. So if you are going to base aircraft at CWL, the number of aircraft is going to depend on what you can sell during the Winter.
I’m a bit surprised that nobody wants to do EDI, that has previously worked all year round.
I’m a bit surprised that nobody wants to do EDI, that has previously worked all year round.
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By that logic TUI should only have 1 aircraft at CWL all year yet base 3 in the summer. But the winter will be the big challenge for Wizz.
As for EDI the only real option is loganair and they made it quite clear that they aren't interested in the route.
As for EDI the only real option is loganair and they made it quite clear that they aren't interested in the route.
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Eastern “could” also be an option for EDI too. I think it’s a good move for Wizz Air with just 1 aircraft initially and time will tell.....no reason why it will not work and down to the public to make it a success
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Wizz will stay at Cardiff if flights are profitable enough for them to. There are certainly a large enough number of passengers in the catchment area. Not far off 2 million travel over the bridge to BRS each year to fly. The real question is if Wizz can capture enough of them/ generate enough new passengers at the right price. Nobody knows if that will be the case yet.
They do have a history of starting and cutting routes frequently - but that is always going to be the case when you have an airline expanding as rapidly as Wizz are. They do sell seats through travel agents on package holidays as well to the person who said they didn't.
fanrailuk Yes, the same was said about Vueling. The thing your flippant comment forgets is that they have spent *a lot* of money on marketing. That's got them passengers all right, but they've cut flights they used to operate and still carry fewer Welsh passengers to AGP/ PMI/ ALC than easyjet and Ryanair do from Bristol. When people in S. Wales think of a LCC, they think easyjet and Ryanair, not Vueling and that's just a fact. That's not to put Vueling down of course. They have done an excellent job cutting out a niche at Cardiff.
As for domestic routes, lets see what happens when the Covid mist thins (hopefully) over the summer. Wizz isn't going to be operating any domestic routes, but there are other possible carriers that I listed a few posts ago.
They do have a history of starting and cutting routes frequently - but that is always going to be the case when you have an airline expanding as rapidly as Wizz are. They do sell seats through travel agents on package holidays as well to the person who said they didn't.
fanrailuk Yes, the same was said about Vueling. The thing your flippant comment forgets is that they have spent *a lot* of money on marketing. That's got them passengers all right, but they've cut flights they used to operate and still carry fewer Welsh passengers to AGP/ PMI/ ALC than easyjet and Ryanair do from Bristol. When people in S. Wales think of a LCC, they think easyjet and Ryanair, not Vueling and that's just a fact. That's not to put Vueling down of course. They have done an excellent job cutting out a niche at Cardiff.
As for domestic routes, lets see what happens when the Covid mist thins (hopefully) over the summer. Wizz isn't going to be operating any domestic routes, but there are other possible carriers that I listed a few posts ago.
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PDXCWL45
I don’t think it’s a matter that they “aren’t interested.”
From various articles it was one of the few that remained in the “viable but unserved” category along with the likes of EDI-MAN (albeit specifics about the lack of demand for onward connections making MAN very difficult to work in the future.) As for EDI-CWL I’d say it’ll certainly be a matter of waiting for markets to recover and analysing the rate and extent that happens over the course of the spring with a return to be made in hopefully in the future.
I don’t think it’s a matter that they “aren’t interested.”
From various articles it was one of the few that remained in the “viable but unserved” category along with the likes of EDI-MAN (albeit specifics about the lack of demand for onward connections making MAN very difficult to work in the future.) As for EDI-CWL I’d say it’ll certainly be a matter of waiting for markets to recover and analysing the rate and extent that happens over the course of the spring with a return to be made in hopefully in the future.
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This is a reply from their social media team that i got back in September when they released summer 2021
"Right now we cannot see how we would be able to operate to Cardiff from anywhere in our network in a way that provides a schedule suitable for customers and financially viable for us as an airline,"
This reply seems to back up what the CEO himself said in an interview with Anna.aero and on a LinkedIn in post who also mentioned Easyjet adding extra flights at Bristol and in the interview said some airports were more helpful than others.
Maybe they will return in the future but I'd suggest they'd need more aircraft to do so and I can't see it being in 2021. Will be odd not seeing Edinburgh as a route from Cardiff.
"Right now we cannot see how we would be able to operate to Cardiff from anywhere in our network in a way that provides a schedule suitable for customers and financially viable for us as an airline,"
This reply seems to back up what the CEO himself said in an interview with Anna.aero and on a LinkedIn in post who also mentioned Easyjet adding extra flights at Bristol and in the interview said some airports were more helpful than others.
Maybe they will return in the future but I'd suggest they'd need more aircraft to do so and I can't see it being in 2021. Will be odd not seeing Edinburgh as a route from Cardiff.
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Wizz will stay at Cardiff if the subsidies from the Welsh Government mean they can develop a hub. They'll be out in a flash if they cannot make money.
To offer subsidies to enable the better heeled section of the population to enjoy two weeks in the sunshine would be a very poor use of public money. Leisure flying should never be subsidised by the taxpayer. On the other hand, we there to be the opportunity for the government to support a carrier willing to open up routes to business destinations, where the benefits may involve new jobs and investment in Wales there may be more merit to a subsidy. From my perspective however, air travel isn't "public transport" and should never get subsidies from public bodies using tax payer's money.
Probably a discussion to have when there is evidence of the use of tax payers money but there might be a couple of reasons, to create/maintain airport based employment, and to help improve the viability of the airport so that the those "global connectivity" flights can be operated.
A good valid reason for a subsidy or call it 'encouragement to use an underused facility'. Air transport is a form of public transport i.e. a form of transport to which the paying public have access.
In the broadest sense of the term yes, but then on that basis so could the cruise industry!
When people discuss public transport they tend to mean rail, trams and buses mainly but not exclusively used for day to day life and work. Aviation for leisure hardly falls into that category.
However as was said above currently we have no idea whether or not Wizz has been lured with Welsh tax payers money.
When people discuss public transport they tend to mean rail, trams and buses mainly but not exclusively used for day to day life and work. Aviation for leisure hardly falls into that category.
However as was said above currently we have no idea whether or not Wizz has been lured with Welsh tax payers money.
It's impossible to claim that Welsh Govt cash wasn't used, when the Welsh Govt owns 100% of Cardiff airport, would almost certainly bail out the airport if it was in serious debt, and will also receive 100% of any potential dividends should they be paid
Cardiff airport is the overwhelmingly dominant commercial airport in Wales, is the only airport with non-PSO flights and is a 100% state owned company. You can create all sorts of legal niceties on paper to tick boxes, but in practice it is an arm of the Transport section of the Welsh Govt
Cardiff airport is the overwhelmingly dominant commercial airport in Wales, is the only airport with non-PSO flights and is a 100% state owned company. You can create all sorts of legal niceties on paper to tick boxes, but in practice it is an arm of the Transport section of the Welsh Govt
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 7th Dec 2020 at 04:37.
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There's a big difference between subsidies and loans. Most of what has been publicly broadcast is CWL taking commercial loans from the WG, therefore being paid back.
The WG own the Airport. If they don't provide money in some way, CWL will not be able to recover.
The WG own the Airport. If they don't provide money in some way, CWL will not be able to recover.
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With an election coming up it's hardly likely that the WG is going to splash the cash on attracting holiday routes to the airport due to political fallout and I also doubt that the airport company itself has any spare cash to splash as well I suspect that any deal has a lot of waived fees in it. The WG will no doubt make sure that the airport stays afloat but I don't see this government especially subsiding an airline like Wizz or any other airline with the exception of maybe Qatar Airways, KLM or a US route.
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Yesterday British Airways G-BYGC BOAC livery was the BA 747 departure from Cardiff and most likely the last ever 747 departure from the airport. It flew to St Athan where it'll be preserved by eCube solutions.
