Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Loganair-3

Old 9th Oct 2022, 08:50
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EDI, LHR, NQY
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My fear is that there are more cowboy venture capitalists (Flybe 2.0) ready to pounce than there are benevolent private owners willing to take it on.

ajamieson is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2022, 09:08
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cavokblues View Post
Very, very crudely dividing their revenue by pax numbers gives them an average revenue per pax of £115. Not a bad effort on predominantly UK regional routes.
They've certainly got at least four pure freight aircraft and I thought did a lot more charter stuff too - could throw that calculation off quite quickly. If that is what they get though, then yes - it is a good effort.

Presumably if they thought selling to a direct rival was that obvious, they'd have picked up the 'phone before engaging expensive advisors. Logically, they've either already done that or don't see there's any point!
Albert Hall is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2022, 10:06
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: 41000ft
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
They've certainly got at least four pure freight aircraft and I thought did a lot more charter stuff too - could throw that calculation off quite quickly. If that is what they get though, then yes - it is a good effort.

Presumably if they thought selling to a direct rival was that obvious, they'd have picked up the 'phone before engaging expensive advisors. Logically, they've either already done that or don't see there's any point!
True. Their financials are out next month and they may mention their profit per seat sold which would be more meaningful.
cavokblues is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2022, 11:18
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Response from the CEO on LinkedIn
caaardiff is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2022, 18:14
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Scottish airline Loganair goes on the market https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-63194336
LTNman is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 07:59
  #126 (permalink)  
e28 driver
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
Presumably if they thought selling to a direct rival was that obvious, they'd have picked up the 'phone before engaging expensive advisors. Logically, they've either already done that or don't see there's any point!
Something like this occurred some weeks ago. The name of the airline wasn’t mentioned to me, but it seems likely it was LM in light of this announcement.
TDK mk2 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 09:37
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TDK mk2 View Post
Something like this occurred some weeks ago. The name of the airline wasn’t mentioned to me, but it seems likely it was LM in light of this announcement.
I really do hope Loganair doesn't become another casualty of "hedge funds" or "Private Equity" sharks. It looks from what has been published that the current owners are in no desperate need of a sale so can afford to be choosy and with any luck they will go with the offer that is good for the business after they've sold it, not just for their bank accounts.

Fingers tightly crossed!
ATNotts is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 14:10
  #128 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Bond brothers kept it alive during the years, they F#cked BMI over to keep one baby alive. They will have some serious battles to fight... old fleet that majority is owned but will need to be replaced by leased new equipment... tik tok... card house waiting to collapse..
harriewillem is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 14:28
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You've said something like that before and it's cobblers now as then!

Fleet isn't majority owned. Last Saab 340s on their way out and ATRs heading in as fast as you can count (15, I think) - which I believe are all leased.

bmi would never have survived Brexit, Covid and fuel where it is today - it was losing money when it collapsed before any of that little lot came along. It fell over because the owners declined to put any more funding into it and stopped throwing good money after bad. Strange definition of "f#cked over" but may be that's just lost in translation.
Saabdriver1 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 15:03
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BMA
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by harriewillem View Post
The Bond brothers kept it alive during the years, they F#cked BMI over to keep one baby alive. They will have some serious battles to fight... old fleet that majority is owned but will need to be replaced by leased new equipment... tik tok... card house waiting to collapse..
Did you read any of the articles. The carrier has a majority leased fleet, is debt free and doing pretty well.
BA318 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 15:56
  #131 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Listen, I know it is not a populair statement, but they have pumped the numbers, loans out and Bond brothers kept liquidity.. however now its game on.. I want them to survive.. but the wrong part of the fleet is owned and the expensive part is leased...

Also the fleet is way to big, like back in the days with FlyBe.. economy of scale yes... but regional aviaton can not be profitable at this size when you are not an BA Cityflier or a KLM Cityhopper.. so some of the PSO in combo with ABZ ops is good but rest is shambles and we will see this soon... tik tok.. I am sorry..



harriewillem is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 16:07
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The info you have there isn't right to begin with.

Come back when you know what you're talking about, I'd suggest. Patently obvious that you don't - predicting the demise of Loganair on the first posting on this thread two years ago, and two years later, it's still here and in very good health!

Last edited by Saabdriver1; 10th Oct 2022 at 16:54.
Saabdriver1 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 16:32
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Seems like you have a serious axe to grind with Loganair?
BMIr was a failure long before its final demise, many refuse to believe it to this day.
No point blaming Loganair or the Bond brothers, previous owners, successive management failures and a changing market hammered in the nails.
Some of us are just happy to still have jobs in this day and age and hope things stay that way.
tallaonejuliet is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 21:29
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
Posts: 4,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What do you replace the Embraer fleet with?
Buster the Bear is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 22:22
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Age: 52
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Buster the Bear View Post
What do you replace the Embraer fleet with?
More ATRs I suspect… even if they are slower.
VickersVicount is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2022, 00:34
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: London
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The 50% reduction in passenger tax in 2023 will surely be a big help to LM on its domestic services and help to keep it a viable operation.
Jamesair1 is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2022, 21:40
  #137 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi Guys, I have nothing against any airline but I just dont have the "pink" glasses certain people have. I do hope all people, pilots etc tec can keep their jobs.. I am just raising my concerns that they are not in that great shape as it may seem.

On the fleet side, I think the data is accurate enough, Saabdriver1 saying I am wrong, happy to be wrong but show your source in that case.

Historic I just think the Bond brothers kept the airline afloat and they saved Logan over BMI and ok, sometimes you need to make those choises.




I think current Logan just grew too big, and I know this a fond strategy, but you need to keep growing to stay ahead of the bills of previous years.. grow more aircraft and routes.. the bills follow.. so grow again... like Flybe did... now there more reason why they went bust... but in the basis, you can not grow forrever so at one point you need to make serious money or you start loosing serious money... and I am no advocate of closing airlines that dont make a profit for lets say one year...

But Logan at 40+ as "Scotlands Airline" is just too big and vunarouble, the Scottish essential services and the ABZ related work will work but the rest is loads of window dressing and just open to be easy killed by for example Easyjet. Logan does not have the equipment and or pockets to compete on routes. The cry wolf over the PSO I think is nice example, from tax payer perspective we dont want to pay for the PSO so if an airlines want to go comercial perfect.. but as the PSO operator dont cry..

I wish Logan well but I think they grew too big and they will have a hard time ahead, going from owned cheap metal to expensive lease, if it was that profitable and bright future the Bond brothers would not sell, they dont need the few extra pounds.

If Easyjet / BA does offer you that job tallaonejuliet I would take it.. tell the wife you will be still home many nights... just not every night.




harriewillem is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 09:41
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am not convinced FlyBe2 have a business strategy or if they do I don't see it, save perhaps eventually capitalising on LHR slots. I wouldn't like to see Loganair mixed up in that.

The vision surely and unique USP has to be around Scotland's Airline. Against a background of a proto independent Scotland seeking to rejoin the EU, that is a pretty strong position. Even if Scotland remains part of the U.K. it is still a USP.
22/04 is online now  
Old 12th Oct 2022, 12:47
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EDI, LHR, NQY
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by harriewillem View Post
But Logan at 40+ as "Scotlands Airline" is just too big and vunarouble ... The cry wolf over the PSO I think is nice example, from tax payer perspective we dont want to pay for the PSO so if an airlines want to go comercial perfect.. but as the PSO operator dont cry..
What?
ajamieson is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2022, 16:27
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 42
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Are they still the owner of the two Dornier 328s that have sat in Dundee for a few years? Seems a bit odd to have the expense of maintaining them rather than scrapping them.
Rivet Joint is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.