Luton-10
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Great examples then why air travel should be suspended until the lockdown is ended. Either this country is serious about getting this virus under control or it isn’t. If I go to the towns tidy tip I have to social distance yet it is outside. 1 mile away I can stand in a packed corridor and that is alright.
What do they both have in common? Answers on a postcard
What do they both have in common? Answers on a postcard
Last edited by LTNman; 9th Jan 2021 at 21:48.
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Yes it is down to government to set the policy but it is down to the airports to keep their passengers safe and it isn’t happening. In Luton’s case they are refusing to set a safe per 15 minute flow rate that the airport can cope with so one hour the airport is heaving and the next 3 hours it is empty. Flow rates or lack of are set by the airport operator and haven’t changed since pre Covid for the terminal.
Last edited by LTNman; 9th Jan 2021 at 23:20.
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Terminal capacity pre and post Covid. In fact arrivals capacity was increased from 2510 to 2800. All flights should be PPR to regulate arrivals and spacing during lockdowns. If they bunch on the apron passengers should be kept onboard as we are told aircraft are safe, which I suspect is dubious with the new variant
Last edited by LTNman; 10th Jan 2021 at 00:05.
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That was the intention maybe a year ago. Don’t think anything has changed. Gulfstream held talks with LLAL but LLAL/ Council would not offer Gulfstream a plot of land for a new facility as it would have impacted the Councils expansion plans. Gulfstream threatened to leave and take its highly paid workforce with them and that is what has now happened.
Looking at Luton’s business jet traffic in general, it is also on the decline despite the millions Signature spent on its FBO again due to the LLAL policies to expand passenger numbers basically banning business jets for parts of the day due to the airport having no spare slots before Covid hit the airport or due to noise restrictions.
Looking at Luton’s business jet traffic in general, it is also on the decline despite the millions Signature spent on its FBO again due to the LLAL policies to expand passenger numbers basically banning business jets for parts of the day due to the airport having no spare slots before Covid hit the airport or due to noise restrictions.
Last edited by LTNman; 11th Jan 2021 at 09:39.
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The total decline of Luton for business jets in just 6 years.
I took the first two photos in March 2015 just before work started on Signatures new FBO
One of their 2 hangars just before demolition.
These photos shows graphically how business jet traffic has declined at Luton and these photos don't include Harrods or Signatures other 2 aprons by the old flying club which were also full.
When Gulfstream first came to Luton they occupied Signatures FBO hangars as seen in this photo .Gulfstream then occupied the blue hangar (hangar 125) and Signature moved back onto their old hangars
South Stands
Google Earth of the same aprons plus Signatures new FBO taken I guess in 2019. The South apron not seen in this screen shot is empty. For those that wish for ever more flights to places that no one has ever heard of this is what you get.
I took the first two photos in March 2015 just before work started on Signatures new FBO
One of their 2 hangars just before demolition.
These photos shows graphically how business jet traffic has declined at Luton and these photos don't include Harrods or Signatures other 2 aprons by the old flying club which were also full.
When Gulfstream first came to Luton they occupied Signatures FBO hangars as seen in this photo .Gulfstream then occupied the blue hangar (hangar 125) and Signature moved back onto their old hangars
South Stands
Google Earth of the same aprons plus Signatures new FBO taken I guess in 2019. The South apron not seen in this screen shot is empty. For those that wish for ever more flights to places that no one has ever heard of this is what you get.
Last edited by LTNman; 11th Jan 2021 at 07:07.
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Interesting pictures of the business jet side, thanks for sharing. It certainly does seem business jet movements is in demise at Luton.
I do wonder, if the growth of Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Stansted ( Business Jet FBO's ) have taken some of the work?
I do wonder, if the growth of Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Stansted ( Business Jet FBO's ) have taken some of the work?
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More a case of the airport gifting the business to other airports as they have forgotten the airports core business model. The first to go was most of the airliners that were converted to business jets. The dedicated business jets then followed
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Pre Pandemic it made financial & logical sense for the operator at LTN to trade a pax/airliner movement for & instead of a corporate Citation movement...
Airports such as LHR had been doing this for many years & even STN for the medium/ long term were viewing corporate movements as finite...
So in the light of restrictions the operators & airports including FAB & BQH embarked on large scale expansion of facilities the results of which are increasingly evident today...
With limited access to the R/W in terms of holding points & turnoffs & R/W length to maximize movements in comparison with say LHR/STN & notwithstanding noise quotas LTN was perhaps always to see a reduction in corporate traffic to enable the airlines...
LTN is caught in the here & now whilst having planned for a future that is for the foreseeable at least out of sight...
STN has been a net beneficiary of the BBJ type market from LTN to an extent but STN has also gained with the many Corporate & Governmental heavies denied access to LHR over the years...
Airports such as LHR had been doing this for many years & even STN for the medium/ long term were viewing corporate movements as finite...
So in the light of restrictions the operators & airports including FAB & BQH embarked on large scale expansion of facilities the results of which are increasingly evident today...
With limited access to the R/W in terms of holding points & turnoffs & R/W length to maximize movements in comparison with say LHR/STN & notwithstanding noise quotas LTN was perhaps always to see a reduction in corporate traffic to enable the airlines...
LTN is caught in the here & now whilst having planned for a future that is for the foreseeable at least out of sight...
STN has been a net beneficiary of the BBJ type market from LTN to an extent but STN has also gained with the many Corporate & Governmental heavies denied access to LHR over the years...
BQH in particular has been aggressively marketing itself to the corporate sector since the beginning of the Covid crisis (with packages including free landing fees etc)
The writing has been on the wall at LTN as far as corporate aviation is concerned for some time. Obviously, places like FAB & BQH have night closures (this occasionally benefits LTN or STN) However, long-term the growth will be at the London airports which do not handle commercial airliner traffic in any quantity. It remains to be seen if Cranfield manages to attract the corporate traffic its aiming for....
The writing has been on the wall at LTN as far as corporate aviation is concerned for some time. Obviously, places like FAB & BQH have night closures (this occasionally benefits LTN or STN) However, long-term the growth will be at the London airports which do not handle commercial airliner traffic in any quantity. It remains to be seen if Cranfield manages to attract the corporate traffic its aiming for....
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Without those flights no one (in Luton) has ever heard of your airport would still be a rather irrelevant short runway surrounded by a tin shed called a terminal, a couple of containers called an airline HQ, ten real aircraft stands. bizjets lying around everywhere, no car park, no train shuttle, no snow cleaning/de-icing capability, no taxiways, plenty of backtarcking for fun, three hotels in the city. Like it was 15 years ago.
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Well said! The general xenophobia and stigma towards certain airlines and their passengers is what I think the experts call unconscious bias. They don't even realise they're doing it and deny it if challenged!
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avidspotter
Here we go again with the personal attacks. You just can't help yourself can you with an irrelevant pointless post that doesn't concern the airport. So how many identities have you created? Are you claiming expenses from you know who?
So we all agree then that the death of the airports business model of terminal traffic combined with business jets, heavy engineering and aircraft maintenance together with the many business jet company offices and associated companies was worth sacrificing which has been replaced with zero hour terminal jobs. Fair enough
Just some of the hangars and hangar offices torn down in recent years to create mini aprons as aircraft maintenance was cut back or ended for apron space.
Here we go again with the personal attacks. You just can't help yourself can you with an irrelevant pointless post that doesn't concern the airport. So how many identities have you created? Are you claiming expenses from you know who?
So we all agree then that the death of the airports business model of terminal traffic combined with business jets, heavy engineering and aircraft maintenance together with the many business jet company offices and associated companies was worth sacrificing which has been replaced with zero hour terminal jobs. Fair enough
Just some of the hangars and hangar offices torn down in recent years to create mini aprons as aircraft maintenance was cut back or ended for apron space.
Last edited by LTNman; 11th Jan 2021 at 18:56.
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Regarding Gaziantep it is a VFR (visiting friends and relatives) destination. It surprised me there are not more flights to the capital of Turkey Ankara although most people think Istanbul is the capital.
Well said avid spotter, if some posters were to be taken ill - heaven forbid - and have to go into hospital I am sure they wouldn't mind where the medical staff come from even it is somewhere some people have never heard of it!
Well said avid spotter, if some posters were to be taken ill - heaven forbid - and have to go into hospital I am sure they wouldn't mind where the medical staff come from even it is somewhere some people have never heard of it!
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It was a challenge to the language often used by you and others on this site which appear to denegrate entire countries and their people! You may be doing so unintentionally and without realising how they read, but I reserve the right to pick you up and call you out on that...
In the last five or six years, Luton's "new" business model seems like it has been fairly successful if you ask me, the point the previous poster was making. Who knows the other way may have been better, but pre-COVID Luton was still number 2 in the UK for biz traffic and in the top 10 in Europe as far as I remember. So I would argue a good mix of low cost, GA and cargo seems perfectly sensible to me. I would argue that LTN will probably find this an advantage in the current climate, but maybe I'll leave that to the economists to fight that out.
And just to clarify I'm not posting on behalf of anyone, but I do earn a living from the airport and I am broadly supportive of it...
In the last five or six years, Luton's "new" business model seems like it has been fairly successful if you ask me, the point the previous poster was making. Who knows the other way may have been better, but pre-COVID Luton was still number 2 in the UK for biz traffic and in the top 10 in Europe as far as I remember. So I would argue a good mix of low cost, GA and cargo seems perfectly sensible to me. I would argue that LTN will probably find this an advantage in the current climate, but maybe I'll leave that to the economists to fight that out.
And just to clarify I'm not posting on behalf of anyone, but I do earn a living from the airport and I am broadly supportive of it...
