Luton-10
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With European ATC route charges rising well above inflation, airports raising their own charges likewise and the steady rise in the price of oil, now the oversupply has been throttled, the days of a very cheap ticket are over? Add into the equation the loans that the airlines must repay and the inevitable Eco taxes that will occur, will we ever see the peak numbers back again?
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In a move/announcement today which is hardly surprising LLA Ltd have reined in all expansion plans & will now consult (again) on revised plans later this year or next over two stages with an initial focus on improving the existing terminal.
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There are lots of inconsistencies in this new way of thinking. For starters there has always been a plan to extend the existing terminal to 22.5m passengers so what's new? There are still plans to expand the airport to 32m so nothing has changed there either. What has changed is they don't intend to shovel earth which will save £1bn. If they don't shovel earth how can they reach 32m?
Last edited by LTNman; 18th May 2021 at 21:26.
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Full details here Updated Airport Plans
£9.9bn seems very generous though!
£9.9bn seems very generous though!
Last edited by pabely; 18th May 2021 at 20:55.
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The intention was to quarry around 3.4 million cubic metres of earth to level land north of the runway for airport expansion. If the intention is to still achieve 32 million passengers you just know everything including a second terminal will be done on the cheap.. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a new terminal with tarmac floors instead of the normal cracked floor tiles but without infilling of the land where will it go?
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The DCO application to government including the consultations was costing the Council £50m but had been put back at least a year even before this announcement. So how much of that figure has been wasted as the Council starts again?
Maybe it has dawned on the Council that with a new concessionaire spending £2.4bn expanding the airport and clearing the Council’s airport debts including the Dart and emergency borrowing to stop LLAL going bankrupt, there would be nothing left to also pay the Council a concession fee. As I keep saying sometimes spending more equals less income
Also the elephant in the room is the governments investigation into the Council’s reliance on airport income when all the other councils bar 3 still managed to balance their books.
Maybe it has dawned on the Council that with a new concessionaire spending £2.4bn expanding the airport and clearing the Council’s airport debts including the Dart and emergency borrowing to stop LLAL going bankrupt, there would be nothing left to also pay the Council a concession fee. As I keep saying sometimes spending more equals less income
Also the elephant in the room is the governments investigation into the Council’s reliance on airport income when all the other councils bar 3 still managed to balance their books.
This is going to sound pretty pathetic, but at the very least the airport could actually paint some of the walls in attractive colours rather than having white everywhere. (Admittedly Ive not flown since October) It looks so cheap. Or even put some investment into the buildings they already have including the old 1970s departure gates 1-9. Eventhough I am local to the place, it is not an enjoyable experience any more.
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I'm sure any celebration by antis will be short-lived because having read this story several times there doesn't appear to be any material difference in LLAL's ambitions. They still want 32m pax. It just seems it will be a different design and over a longer time-frame. As for the Government review you mention LTNman personally I'm not convinced that will change much either.
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How sustainable is the council's approach to the airport in terms of their 'build it cheap' mentality?
Airlines can offer bargain prices whilst they're being driven by expansion but, at some point, could we expect the market to saturate and then airlines start to look to mature and improve their customer experience to drive higher revenues. Ryanair have certainly changed their tact in recent years, trying to target business flyers etc and improve their customer experiences (with mixed results I guess) but the flippant attitude towards customer service that was so prevalent a decade ago seems to have gone.
I guess my point is, in 20 years time or so, is there a reasonable chance that customers will be put off by how shoddy the experience is at Luton if airlines are no longer providing the cheap tickets they currently do, and look to fly through other alternatives? Will airlines demand a nicer airport experience for their customers?
I know it has been rumoured on here in the past that other airlines have looked at Luton, ie Alitalia and Jet2 which maybe the airport could have attracted if they weren't so preoccupied by the 'build it cheap' mentality.
Airlines can offer bargain prices whilst they're being driven by expansion but, at some point, could we expect the market to saturate and then airlines start to look to mature and improve their customer experience to drive higher revenues. Ryanair have certainly changed their tact in recent years, trying to target business flyers etc and improve their customer experiences (with mixed results I guess) but the flippant attitude towards customer service that was so prevalent a decade ago seems to have gone.
I guess my point is, in 20 years time or so, is there a reasonable chance that customers will be put off by how shoddy the experience is at Luton if airlines are no longer providing the cheap tickets they currently do, and look to fly through other alternatives? Will airlines demand a nicer airport experience for their customers?
I know it has been rumoured on here in the past that other airlines have looked at Luton, ie Alitalia and Jet2 which maybe the airport could have attracted if they weren't so preoccupied by the 'build it cheap' mentality.
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This is the second time the Council has claimed it has listened to the public at the consultation events. Pure rubbish as they use this as an excuse when things go wrong.
Just to correct a couple of my own figures, as I have pulled the documents out. I said the plan was to always expand the existing terminal to 22.5 million passengers as an interim measure. The consultation documents states this figure is actually 21.5 million and is called Phase 1-Project 21.5. I have seen an outline document that shows a modest extension to the front of the terminal that is angled at maybe 35 degrees from between the 2 entrances and ends up by the service road that drops under the terminal. It’s a tiny extension that is meant to add 3.5m capacity to the existing terminal. Actually 2.5 million, as there is an application to add a million passengers with no alterations.
I also said the plan was to quarry 3.4million cubic metres of earth, the documents says the figure was 4,000,000m3, which they claim is the equivalent to 4 Wembley Stadiums.
So let’s look at the original plans. The plan involved digging down up to 22m, shown in mauve and blue and adding also up to 22m to the height of the ground to remove dips
The second screen shot shows the contour lines and how the car parks are in a big hole. Looking at the stands that were to receive the earth, where are they going?
Just to correct a couple of my own figures, as I have pulled the documents out. I said the plan was to always expand the existing terminal to 22.5 million passengers as an interim measure. The consultation documents states this figure is actually 21.5 million and is called Phase 1-Project 21.5. I have seen an outline document that shows a modest extension to the front of the terminal that is angled at maybe 35 degrees from between the 2 entrances and ends up by the service road that drops under the terminal. It’s a tiny extension that is meant to add 3.5m capacity to the existing terminal. Actually 2.5 million, as there is an application to add a million passengers with no alterations.
I also said the plan was to quarry 3.4million cubic metres of earth, the documents says the figure was 4,000,000m3, which they claim is the equivalent to 4 Wembley Stadiums.
So let’s look at the original plans. The plan involved digging down up to 22m, shown in mauve and blue and adding also up to 22m to the height of the ground to remove dips
The second screen shot shows the contour lines and how the car parks are in a big hole. Looking at the stands that were to receive the earth, where are they going?
Last edited by LTNman; 19th May 2021 at 12:04.
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Palettes of green are required for any mapping to represent the very long grass any further development is now kicked into both unfortunately & realistically.
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Chief executive Graham Olver was on the radio this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09gplcx @ 1:04:53. Apart from not moving earth and putting the dates back nothing has changed. He was full of bull by saying lorry loads of earth would be kept off the roads yet there were no plans to transport earth by road. He also gave the impression that expanding the existing terminal was a new idea when it isn't . The moral of the story is never believe what we are fed both by word and in print with regards to airport expansion particularly about listening to feedback from the public.
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The cavalier approach adopted for far too long with LTN has now been firmly reined in.
Brave face saving words coming from the top which may be expected but revealed in the "small print" is the reality going forward.
Brave face saving words coming from the top which may be expected but revealed in the "small print" is the reality going forward.
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Blimey, my post has vanished! Never mind, I'm still here. £1bn on a second Tinminal and earthworks that would match the volume of an Egyptian pyramid required! All to be paid for by Luton residents!
Never mind T2 is coming if you believe the smoke and mirrors! https://www.building.co.uk/news/luto...111908.article
Never mind T2 is coming if you believe the smoke and mirrors! https://www.building.co.uk/news/luto...111908.article
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Luton council has insisted that it is not scaling back plans to expand the city’s airport following reports that it has decided to delay building a second terminal to save £1bn.
So who will fund the existing terminal extension and when, the Council or the existing franchise holder who has to just walk away in 9 years time with nothing? By the time an extension is actually needed those remaining years will be even less so there will be no return on the investment unless the extension is just a tarpaulin or circus tent. I would doubt the government will allow the council and its company LLAL to fund it. Interesting times lay ahead.
Last edited by LTNman; 21st May 2021 at 06:05.
In a shock to everyone, local councillors are no good at running airports. I know of a couple of people that are on the board, and they have no business being there whatsoever going by their background and experience.