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Old 14th Nov 2022, 21:29
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[QUOTE=Spanish eyes;11330563]A bit of a contrast from the Which readers awards but then how many people actually voted in the Condť Nast Readersí Choice Awards, a publication I have never heard of.

Luton got itself out of bottom position in the Which awards not by effort but by the fact that far less people are using Luton. The more passengers that use Luton the worse it gets. 18 million is bad enough but the plan is to add another million with no new physical infrastructure.
[/QUOTE.]

Spanish eyes from your comment I can only assume you reside in the terminal building and witness peak periods and the less busy times of operations? Where there are less busy times there are opportunities! I believe no one would even notice an extra letís say 24 flights a day unless of course their intentions was merely based on anti-airport growth and thus they have some biased motive!
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Old 14th Nov 2022, 23:06
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Blue Air, forget them. No chance they will be resurrected from the dead, with their remaining airframes being seized.

When does Waterford reopen to airliners? Emerald?
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Old 14th Nov 2022, 23:21
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes
If Luton has been voted the UKís second best airport then British airports must really be bad. I also doubt that Lutonís clientele would read such a publication so I prefer to believe the UK readers of Which.
You must have deeper pockets. Conte Nast Travel subscription I can get for less than £30 a year, even with a discount, Which will cost just under £50 and CNT has a much larger readership and you are more likely to find it in Airport Lounges & on the Airplane, particularly full fare airlines which makes Luton's achievement even more surprising.
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Old 14th Nov 2022, 23:30
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear
Blue Air, forget them. No chance they will be resurrected from the dead, with their remaining airframes being seized.
When does Waterford reopen to airliners? Emerald?
Blue Air slots at Luton must have some worth......?

Waterford has done well in the past from Luton with a good Wexford catchment close by. I know motorways are better in Ireland now but would save the pain of travel to Dublin!
Remember Aer Arann then VLM?
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Old 14th Nov 2022, 23:34
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If Waterford cannot support a scheduled route to London... then what was the point of spending the money to extend the runway ? No, a route to Anglesey isn't what I had in mind...
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 05:59
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East London to Lyon via Luton Airport vs Lyon to East London by train. Which is quicker and which is better for the environment?


Written article

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022..._medium=Social

Also on youtube


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Old 15th Nov 2022, 06:17
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Originally Posted by Lee Baker Street

I believe no one would even notice an extra letís say 24 flights a day unless of course their intentions was merely based on anti-airport growth and thus they have some biased motive!
Those 24 flights would be to a certain degree offset by a reduction in biz jets which is flourishing at the moment with a big revival.

Luton doesnít need an 24 extra flights. Maybe itís time for a Southend revival where they would notice 24 flights a day?
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 06:59
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Originally Posted by LTNman
East London to Lyon via Luton Airport vs Lyon to East London by train. Which is quicker and which is better for the environment?
To be honest I don’t think many people here or those running the airport give a fig about some South Pacific Island disappearing under the waves if it can mean more flights to places we haven’t heard of. I for one fancy warmer winters and hotter summers as long as I don’t get flooded out.

Personally I am not a climate change denier, I just don’t care so we need to get our priorities right. As pabely likes to state more flights is good news except the terminal won’t cope so needs to be bigger. If and when Spain becomes too hot there are plenty of other places to visit.

Last edited by Spanish eyes; 15th Nov 2022 at 07:10.
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 07:21
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Originally Posted by pabely
You must have deeper pockets. Conte Nast Travel subscription I can get for less than £30 a year, even with a discount, Which will cost just under £50 and CNT has a much larger readership and you are more likely to find it in Airport Lounges & on the Airplane, particularly full fare airlines which makes Luton's achievement even more surprising.
Neither of them are exactly scientifically selected samples....

Gets their names in the paper, though. Probably cheaper than advertising.
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 07:40
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With the current annual pax maximum and aircraft getting larger, EZY 319 > 320, WZZ 320 > 321, RYR 738 > Max then that is going to force reduced ATMs. Are we already seeing that with DHL & NMG getting increased daytime slots?
The plan is for high speed exits from the runway which should enable higher runway utilisation as would the taxiway to the 25 threshold.
Thing is, without the pax cap increases being given green light, it would be only biz traffic which would benifit.
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 07:58
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Expansion plans have been a disaster for the Council, LRT and the council taxpayers. With debts now approaching £600m what have they achieved? How many passengers have they actually added? Sometimes less is actually more.

As for climate change, the Council has excluded flights from Luton from its own declared climate emergency, as they promote a big increase in aircraft pollution.

Last edited by LTNman; 15th Nov 2022 at 08:10.
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 14:18
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes
To be honest I donít think many people here or those running the airport give a fig about some South Pacific Island disappearing under the waves if it can mean more flights to places we havenít heard of. I for one fancy warmer winters and hotter summers as long as I donít get flooded out.

Personally I am not a climate change denier, I just donít care so we need to get our priorities right. As pabely likes to state more flights is good news except the terminal wonít cope so needs to be bigger. If and when Spain becomes too hot there are plenty of other places to visit.
A refreshingly honestly opinion although a disturbing view shared by most here I would muse. More flights please, doesnít matter where to or which airline, as we like counting aircraft.
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 19:41
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The thing is, if the capacity does not increase at Luton, it will somewhere else. Reduced local jobs etc.
The area becomes less attractive to employers and some might relocate.
Many here moan that the hangers are empty of skilled engineers, except TUI. Trouble is the hangerline is used for pax.
If TUI or Easyjet move out of Luton, how many people in Wigmore would put some green space a priority over a local job?
If T2 is dead let's at least get that area handed over for development in another way. Already lost out on a significant facility for Gulfstream. Get Harrods moved and push a new taxiway east of Foxtrot again, which would free up more space within the CTA and perhaps more cargo.
Less is best is not a solution, it just moves jobs somewhere else. I bet North East Herts can't wait for further Stansted expansion.
London has lost out recently to Paris in being the largest stock exchange in Europe. Why, because of the thirst of demand for luxury goods/brands from emerging markets from their expanding Middle classes.I doubt many of them really care about climate change as their manufacturing costs are so much lower and they can once again make our traditional industry uncompetitive.
In my line of work I have seen colleagues jobs first go to China, then East Europe, now India.
We should embrace expansion because if we don't, someone else will. It's a big old world out there and if we do not cease opportunities, someone else will!
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 22:57
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Some weak arguments there plus assumptions. Luton is not a strategic airport. It is an airport that principally serves Eastern Europeans and U.K. holidaymakers looking for a cheap week in the sun or a weekend away. That market won’t disappear if the airport is not expanded nor will any jobs associated with the ramp or terminal.

The airport has many vacancies that even in the off season of November it can’t fill, as people don’t want to work there on 24/7 shift pattens on rubbish money. While LIA has some better paid jobs they also struggle to fill most of their vacancies as well so the jobs sit there for weeks if not months. https://www.london-luton.co.uk/corporate/working-at-lla

Every now and again I publish the above vacancy list here. It never changes with the same companies always looking for staff. Now why would that be? I suggest a few people here who like to promote airport jobs pick a company from the above link and then look at their vacancies to pick that dream job.

The proposed new terminal and infrastructure requires a cheap low skilled workforce to support low and ultra low cost airlines who want to pay as little as possible. The airlines and airport operator tender out as much as they can with the winning bids coming from the companies offering the lowest price. Lowest prices usually means the lowest wages, part time work or zero hour contracts. As pointed out the skilled engineering jobs are disappearing fast.

The last quality company to leave was Gulfstream as LRT refused to offer them any land despite having acres of prime airside land available. Even with an expanded airport there is no additional airside land. Most of TUI moved out of the airport years ago with Easyjet planning to move its HQ outside the airport. Behind Percival Way most of the prime land and buildings there has been abandoned, as LRT has shown no interest in redeveloping the land for business use.

Last edited by LTNman; 16th Nov 2022 at 05:23.
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 23:39
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Just noticed that the Google earth app has an updated satellite view of the airport with a view taken this year. I have counted the biz jets parked up plus the one at the holding point. The grand total is 66 biz jets plus what is hidden in 5 hangars. Luton must be back at number 1.

(Edit) Counted 40 at Farnborough.

Last edited by LTNman; 16th Nov 2022 at 05:25.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 00:01
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Originally Posted by LTNman
Some weak arguments there plus assumptions. Luton is not a strategic airport. It is an airport that principally serves Eastern Europeans and U.K. holidaymakers looking for a cheap week in the sun or a weekend away. That market wonít disappear if the airport is not expanded nor will any jobs associated with the ramp or terminal.

The airport has many vacancies that even in the off season of November it canít fill, as people donít want to work there on 24/7 shift pattens on rubbish money. While LIA has some better paid jobs they also struggle to fill most of their vacancies as well so the jobs sit there for weeks if not months. https://www.london-luton.co.uk/corporate/working-at-lla

Every now and again I publish the above vacancy list here. It never changes with the same companies always looking for staff. Now why would that be? I suggest a few people here who like to promote airport jobs pick a company from the above link and then look at their vacancies to pick that dream job.

The proposed new terminal and infrastructure requires a cheap low skilled workforce to support low and ultra low cost airlines who want to pay as little as possible. The airlines and airport operator tender out as much as they can with the winning bids coming from the companies offering the lowest price. Lowest prices usually means the lowest wages, part time work or zero hour contracts. As pointed out the skilled engineering jobs are disappearing fast.

The last quality company to leave was Gulfstream as LRT refused to offer them any land despite having acres of prime airside land available. Even with an expanded airport there is no additional airside land. Most of TUI moved out of the airport years ago with Easyjet planning to move its HQ outside the airport. Behind Percival Way most of the prime land and buildings there have been abandoned.
But that is what the public and the Industry wants and is no different from any other airport in UK and alot of the EU. Call it the Ryanair effect.
The employment I was referring to is Luton in general, as you keep saying the Airport is the Luton Council anyhow.
No new local jobs in no LU postcode is bad news. Luton has suffered enough with the loss of car Industry.
An expanded Airport will mean more jobs all round, more people paying taxes to boost local services.
No expansion will mean traffic going to other airports, benefiting their local economy.
Joe public will question why do I need to go to Essex, Sussex or Birmingham for my flight when there is a perfectly good airport local to me!?
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 00:24
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Still can’t argue the point that the companies based at the airport can’t fill the vacancies they have got so there is no actual demand for even more jobs.

But that is what the public and the Industry wants
Does Joe Public want bigger airports, more noise and more pollution while showing no concern for global warming?

An expanded Airport will mean more jobs all round, more people paying taxes to boost local services.
Too many working people living in Luton are still on state and council benefits despite having a job. It is no coincidence that the airport is the towns largest employer.


Joe public will question why do I need to go to Essex, Sussex or Birmingham for my flight when there is a perfectly good airport local to me!?
As a member of Joe Public if I fly to say South Africa I expect to fly from Heathrow. That won’t change. If I fly to Spain I fly from Luton, that won’t change either, whether the airport is expanded or not. 142 destinations for half term is plenty. So how many destinations should their be, 175, 200, 250? I hear there is a small village in Albania without flights to Luton. Another destination required?

How about more destinations from Southend, Norwich, Cambridge and Oxford, as they all have perfectly good airports with a local population? Why should people there have to consider Luton or one of the other London Airports when they have their own airport on their doorstep thus adding to road traffic heading to Luton? More local flights means less flights from Luton or is it only Luton that should be expanded?

Last edited by LTNman; 16th Nov 2022 at 07:38.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 07:58
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Yet again you are saying a national problem with employment, not specific to Luton or the aviation sector. Only last night on the UK TV news it was highlighted again.
Basically you are just part of the not in my back yard brigade.
Norwich & Southend would love more flights.
Oxford has been tried but the owners have no designs on that market and Cambridge is due for closure anyhow.
I do not see Luton's role being 777X or A350s long haul but the 321XLR does give some interesting oppertunities and should be embraced.
Luton's departure board has been expanding recently to more interesting destinations in Italy for example. Your constant grudge against East Europeans is a little, boring.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 08:43
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I would like to think I can recognise the bigger picture rather than being a denier. We should all be trying to reduce flying even though this is painful for many people here. Luton is a very successful airport and has created many direct and indirect jobs. It will carry on being successful without the need to satisfy the Pruners here who like to tick off destinations as through they are collecting football stickers. It must be a man and boy thing.

If your desire is to reduce travel to other local airports then promote the smaller airports so they can take passengers away from Luton so reducing demand. Maybe a new airline is required perhaps called Lemming Airways.

I for one will keep on promoting the core Luton Airport and not the wishy washy shower that is running the show today. They have saddled the town with debts and are being given the run around by an airport operator that is looking after its shareholders while the town is losing its services. There will be around 15m passengers this year using Luton yet not a penny will be paid as a dividend to the Council by LRT as they continue to tap into Council bailout money.

If Luton reaches 18m passengers next year, which it won't, the Council still won't get a penny in dividends, as LRT is viewed by those in the know, as being terminally ill.

Last edited by LTNman; 16th Nov 2022 at 13:26.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 12:47
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Originally Posted by LTNman
Just noticed that the Google earth app has an updated satellite view of the airport with a view taken this year. I have counted the biz jets parked up plus the one at the holding point. The grand total is 66 biz jets plus what is hidden in 5 hangars. Luton must be back at number 1.

(Edit) Counted 40 at Farnborough.
Yes Luton & Stansted are doing very well with Biz Traffic although STN has alot of long term non movers.
I must take a look at Biggin as well.
I suspect Farnborough will still be #1 on movements.
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