Jet2-6
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Reason why Jet2 have sensibly delayed the start of holidays and flying.
Heapy said that to resume on May 17, as previously planned: “We’d have to recruit loads of seasonal staff in the UK, loads of seasonal staff in every one of the 50-odd destinations we fly to, and we might not be flying there for two or three months.
“We’d have the cost base of a fully operational airline and potentially not flying. It’s just not sustainable.”
Heapy said that to resume on May 17, as previously planned: “We’d have to recruit loads of seasonal staff in the UK, loads of seasonal staff in every one of the 50-odd destinations we fly to, and we might not be flying there for two or three months.
“We’d have the cost base of a fully operational airline and potentially not flying. It’s just not sustainable.”
Join Date: May 2016
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Jet2 could cancel everything until 2024 and put all of their staff on unpaid leave until then and people on this forum would still say they’re “making a good call” or “doing the right thing”. The fact remains that Jet2 are the only major U.K. airline that are entirely exposed to both the European market but also the decisions of the U.K. government. You don’t have to look far into Europe to see that easyJet, Ryanair and TUI have restarted a sizeable chunk of their operations from Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Scandinavia, which is at least bringing some revenue in. Virgin and BA (and TUI) will survive a poor summer on cargo revenue, as well as the long haul routes to the Caribbean and potentially the USA - two destinations that aren’t as seasonal as the majority of European beach destinations.
Even Jet2’s magic money tree will be looking pretty bare if they don’t get any revenue in this summer, and cancelling half the season before it’s even begun will hardly inspire hope, especially as a good chunk of their operation could be on the “green list” by mid June.
Even Jet2’s magic money tree will be looking pretty bare if they don’t get any revenue in this summer, and cancelling half the season before it’s even begun will hardly inspire hope, especially as a good chunk of their operation could be on the “green list” by mid June.
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Vokes,
”Daft.
I think if I had a holiday booked in March, I’d be taking that refund and giving it straight to a competitor.”
Your comment about delaying the restart until April. Seems like your predictions aren’t spot on either.
”Daft.
I think if I had a holiday booked in March, I’d be taking that refund and giving it straight to a competitor.”
Your comment about delaying the restart until April. Seems like your predictions aren’t spot on either.
Vokes55
You make a very good point regarding Jet2's exposure to the UK/ Europe holiday industry and comparing it to the spread risk that the likes of TUI, Ryanair and Easyjet enjoy. With the benefit of 20 / 20 hindsight (and don't we all wish we had that!) some expansion into the EU markets pre-Brexit might have been a good move, though probably at the time viewed as somewhat risky - better the devil you know and all that.
You make a very good point regarding Jet2's exposure to the UK/ Europe holiday industry and comparing it to the spread risk that the likes of TUI, Ryanair and Easyjet enjoy. With the benefit of 20 / 20 hindsight (and don't we all wish we had that!) some expansion into the EU markets pre-Brexit might have been a good move, though probably at the time viewed as somewhat risky - better the devil you know and all that.
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Canadian
Agree with you there Canadian
Not forgetting Volkes predictions back in October last year too......
”However not even the most brainwashed Jet2 fanboy or employee could deny that cancelling the largest market for October half term a month in advance was short sighted.”
I believe his business acumen was proved a little missing there too !
Agree with you there Canadian
Not forgetting Volkes predictions back in October last year too......
”However not even the most brainwashed Jet2 fanboy or employee could deny that cancelling the largest market for October half term a month in advance was short sighted.”
I believe his business acumen was proved a little missing there too !
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I think one of Jet2's strengths is the relative simplicity of their business model. There is always going to be a market from the UK to Europe for holidays. They know the market well.
At the moment the management team see so many opportunities for profitable growth in the UK there is no need to pour money into expansion abroad or long haul operations. I'm sure when the time comes, and the returns are right, they will move into these markets.
At the moment the management team see so many opportunities for profitable growth in the UK there is no need to pour money into expansion abroad or long haul operations. I'm sure when the time comes, and the returns are right, they will move into these markets.
Their scope for "growth" which we all know is what the stock markets holy grail, is somewhat limited within the UK market, up against the likes of TUI. Jet2 have already based aircraft in Spain, so it wouldn't, for example have been that great a step to begin operating to places like Cologne, Stuttgart, Rotterdam, Billund - I've picked those places out, not because they are necessarily viable, but because they are in countries where the flay on words that is "Jet2" only really works in countries where there is a good working knowledge of the English language and it's nuances. Then of course the easiest market to enter would be Ireland, and having registered aircraft on the Irish (EU) register they could very much do an "Aer Lingus UK".
For now, rebuilding the business as and when covid restrictions allow has got to be their, and every other airlines number one priority, not potentially risky ventures into the unknown on vanity trips.
For now, rebuilding the business as and when covid restrictions allow has got to be their, and every other airlines number one priority, not potentially risky ventures into the unknown on vanity trips.
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Bam Thwok
Not sure what your point is there, Jet2 missed an important week of revenue in half term by cancelling their Canaries flights prematurely. By the time Jet2 had managed to scramble together a flying program, the half term had finished and the second lockdown had begun. Their competitors were flying full aircraft to the Canaries in their absence. My point entirely, they’ve made this mistake before.
If the government say that travel to Malta, Faro, Madeira, the Canary Islands and some Greek islands are on the “green list” from May 17th, or even early June, the company are going to be once again scrambling to throw a flying program together and claw back some bookings, whilst their competitors have kept all flights/holidays, allowing those with existing bookings to go ahead and those with bookings to destinations that aren’t available the chance to change directly to holidays that are available.
January was a different story - Im not sure anybody expected the government to make it illegal to leave your own country - but what exactly did they achieve by cancelling until the end of March a week before everyone else, as it turned out? And cancelling a few holidays that barely break even in March is different to cancelling potentially 6 weeks of the season that keeps you in business.
People like to bleat on about them “putting the customer first”, but it I was a customer with a booking to somewhere that was likely to be accessible from June, I’d be, once again, taking my money to a competitor. I don’t think any other airlines or tour operators have been criticised by customers for waiting for official advise before cancelling their programs.
Not sure what your point is there, Jet2 missed an important week of revenue in half term by cancelling their Canaries flights prematurely. By the time Jet2 had managed to scramble together a flying program, the half term had finished and the second lockdown had begun. Their competitors were flying full aircraft to the Canaries in their absence. My point entirely, they’ve made this mistake before.
If the government say that travel to Malta, Faro, Madeira, the Canary Islands and some Greek islands are on the “green list” from May 17th, or even early June, the company are going to be once again scrambling to throw a flying program together and claw back some bookings, whilst their competitors have kept all flights/holidays, allowing those with existing bookings to go ahead and those with bookings to destinations that aren’t available the chance to change directly to holidays that are available.
January was a different story - Im not sure anybody expected the government to make it illegal to leave your own country - but what exactly did they achieve by cancelling until the end of March a week before everyone else, as it turned out? And cancelling a few holidays that barely break even in March is different to cancelling potentially 6 weeks of the season that keeps you in business.
People like to bleat on about them “putting the customer first”, but it I was a customer with a booking to somewhere that was likely to be accessible from June, I’d be, once again, taking my money to a competitor. I don’t think any other airlines or tour operators have been criticised by customers for waiting for official advise before cancelling their programs.
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There’s the rub, If you didn’t think it was going to illegal to leave the country how can you be certain that we’ll be able to fly anywhere other than Gibraltar and Israel? The governments travel taskforce doesn’t have a great track record so far. We all know that all airlines are in self preservation mode, I don’t think this one is entirely about giving the customer what they want, it’s about making sure the company is around for long enough to take people on holiday next year (hopefully).
Im sure if travel to enough destinations is allowed you’ll see Jet2 flights/holidays back on sale quick enough, Tui won’t have it all to themselves
Im sure if travel to enough destinations is allowed you’ll see Jet2 flights/holidays back on sale quick enough, Tui won’t have it all to themselves
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Because the government have announced a framework to restart travel, potentially from 17th May. A company doesn’t have to bring its entire workforce off furlough, entire fleet from storage in order to operate a partial program to wherever is permitted. Heaven forbid, Jet2 might actually try to capture part of a market that’s away from their bread and butter in order to bring in some much needed revenue.
You’re correct in saying that airlines are in preservation mode, which is why the majority are keeping cash in the business and bookings valid until it’s abundantly clear they cannot operate. Remember that the majority of working people will have annual leave booked that cannot be moved. It’s far easier to fill aircraft and hotel rooms by transferring existing bookings for “closed” destinations than it is from a standing start with no bookings after cancelling them all. TUI, easyJet and BA were flying full aircraft to the Canaries in October half term whilst Jet2 were scrambling to throw a program together.
You’re correct in saying that airlines are in preservation mode, which is why the majority are keeping cash in the business and bookings valid until it’s abundantly clear they cannot operate. Remember that the majority of working people will have annual leave booked that cannot be moved. It’s far easier to fill aircraft and hotel rooms by transferring existing bookings for “closed” destinations than it is from a standing start with no bookings after cancelling them all. TUI, easyJet and BA were flying full aircraft to the Canaries in October half term whilst Jet2 were scrambling to throw a program together.
You mean like charters? Not sure if they’re doing any presently but they’ve always been quite a lucrative aspect of the operation. I’m a bit bemused by your suggestion that they should scramble about for any old business away from their tried and tested model ‘to try get some cash in’.
I do appreciate this is an open discussion forum but comparing the operations of Jet2 to those of easyJet and TUi is like comparing apples with oranges. The people running Jet2 are highly competent and passionate about the business (traits which I m sure exist in other larger operators), which filters down through the staff. They will not have made the call to delay restarting the operation without very good reason, and they really are serious about looking after their customers! I suspect the risk of short notice travel restrictions due to the fluidity of the situation has sparked a cautious approach, it would likely cost more if they’re forced to repatriate travellers at the drop of a hat - for instance, just how simple do you think it is to get sufficient man-power off furlough and back into currency, and all those seasonal staff back up to a sufficient level, to cover all eventuality?
They’ve built their business through being highly cautious and it’s seen them well so far, there’s no reason to question their capability to deal with this and hit the ground running once there is more certainty in the travel market. Spreading themselves too thinly, and desperately entering unknown markets just to get the cash in just doesn’t strike me as something that would fit their business model.
I do appreciate this is an open discussion forum but comparing the operations of Jet2 to those of easyJet and TUi is like comparing apples with oranges. The people running Jet2 are highly competent and passionate about the business (traits which I m sure exist in other larger operators), which filters down through the staff. They will not have made the call to delay restarting the operation without very good reason, and they really are serious about looking after their customers! I suspect the risk of short notice travel restrictions due to the fluidity of the situation has sparked a cautious approach, it would likely cost more if they’re forced to repatriate travellers at the drop of a hat - for instance, just how simple do you think it is to get sufficient man-power off furlough and back into currency, and all those seasonal staff back up to a sufficient level, to cover all eventuality?
They’ve built their business through being highly cautious and it’s seen them well so far, there’s no reason to question their capability to deal with this and hit the ground running once there is more certainty in the travel market. Spreading themselves too thinly, and desperately entering unknown markets just to get the cash in just doesn’t strike me as something that would fit their business model.
Last edited by pug; 12th Apr 2021 at 14:31.
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Maybe they can’t just can’t be arsed to go back to flying? I’m sure they have their reasons. Which bit of the market do you suggest they capture anyway? Seems like they have been capturing some of the Tui market over the last few years.
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pug
I think you’re living in a dream land. Jet2 won’t have flown a paying customer for almost 6 months. Unless they really do have a magic money tree, they won’t survive without a strong summer or diversifying their operation. Or is every other airline that has done just that wrong? I don’t think Virgin, BA and TUI imagined they’d be flying raw rubber, salmon, avocados, vaccines, troops, electronics and car parts across the world, but it’s making them money whilst their core business has been decimated.
If last year proved anything, it’s that a certain proportion of customers will go on holiday to wherever is possible. If that’s only going to be Malta, Portugal and Israel in June, the demand for these destinations is going to increase dramatically (I believe it already has). If Jet2 want to sit in hibernation whilst the rest of the industry eats their lunch then that’s up to them.
Aside from anything, a gradual restart is far less risky than their apparent Big Bang approach. I don’t expect many of the fan club to appreciate the cost and logistics of getting hundreds of pilots and thousands of cabin crew back to work. Every single pilot will require some sort of simulator training, the majority will now require line training. Simulator capacity restraints will almost certainly mean they have to operate non revenue flights to get pilots legal and current again. Operating a small program to Portugal and Malta or wherever else is possible from mid May or June would’ve allowed sufficient commercial sectors to get the majority of the workforce current and ready for a substantial restart, whenever that may be.
It’s all very well shouting “I’m sure they know what they’re doing”, but the same could be said for every other airline, the majority of which are doing the complete opposite.
I think you’re living in a dream land. Jet2 won’t have flown a paying customer for almost 6 months. Unless they really do have a magic money tree, they won’t survive without a strong summer or diversifying their operation. Or is every other airline that has done just that wrong? I don’t think Virgin, BA and TUI imagined they’d be flying raw rubber, salmon, avocados, vaccines, troops, electronics and car parts across the world, but it’s making them money whilst their core business has been decimated.
If last year proved anything, it’s that a certain proportion of customers will go on holiday to wherever is possible. If that’s only going to be Malta, Portugal and Israel in June, the demand for these destinations is going to increase dramatically (I believe it already has). If Jet2 want to sit in hibernation whilst the rest of the industry eats their lunch then that’s up to them.
Aside from anything, a gradual restart is far less risky than their apparent Big Bang approach. I don’t expect many of the fan club to appreciate the cost and logistics of getting hundreds of pilots and thousands of cabin crew back to work. Every single pilot will require some sort of simulator training, the majority will now require line training. Simulator capacity restraints will almost certainly mean they have to operate non revenue flights to get pilots legal and current again. Operating a small program to Portugal and Malta or wherever else is possible from mid May or June would’ve allowed sufficient commercial sectors to get the majority of the workforce current and ready for a substantial restart, whenever that may be.
It’s all very well shouting “I’m sure they know what they’re doing”, but the same could be said for every other airline, the majority of which are doing the complete opposite.
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I suspect it is easier to plan cashflow by cancelling the entire programme and utilising the furlough scheme as much as possible. Fairly fixed costs and a known contribution to staff wages. Trying to second guess which destinations will be "green" is impossible at this stage. The goal posts keep moving.
Vokes55
Youre wrong, I know they know what they’re doing. It’s ok for a faceless spotter on PPrune to suggest they could do better, but fact is they have weighed up the options and decided that it’s not right to re-start their operations until there is more certainty in the market. They are slowly starting to get flight crew back into currency now, they may well still be brokering charters which have always been lucrative in the past. However, their business model is such that they don’t outsource their overseas teams and thus they have clearly decided that to recruit seasonal staff and pay wages to people when there is a high chance they will be doing nothing is not viable - I’m sure there are many other variables which have led them to make this difficult decision too.
You may see TUI chomping at the bit to get flying, but you mustn’t forget that they own overseas hotels and they need to have them filled too. This is something Jet2 doesn’t do, which arguably provides them with much more flexibility contrary to what you are asserting.
Whilst I’m sure your concern is appreciated, perhaps leave it to the experts? After all, this is undoubtedly the most challenging period facing civil aviation since 1945! It goes without saying that they are suffering financially, as are many others in the industry, but they’re not scratching round behind the sofa for loose change just yet.
Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP
Hit the nail on the head! To press on with even a limited program which could prove more costly than keeping the aircraft on the ground is a risk they are clearly unwilling to take.
Youre wrong, I know they know what they’re doing. It’s ok for a faceless spotter on PPrune to suggest they could do better, but fact is they have weighed up the options and decided that it’s not right to re-start their operations until there is more certainty in the market. They are slowly starting to get flight crew back into currency now, they may well still be brokering charters which have always been lucrative in the past. However, their business model is such that they don’t outsource their overseas teams and thus they have clearly decided that to recruit seasonal staff and pay wages to people when there is a high chance they will be doing nothing is not viable - I’m sure there are many other variables which have led them to make this difficult decision too.
You may see TUI chomping at the bit to get flying, but you mustn’t forget that they own overseas hotels and they need to have them filled too. This is something Jet2 doesn’t do, which arguably provides them with much more flexibility contrary to what you are asserting.
Whilst I’m sure your concern is appreciated, perhaps leave it to the experts? After all, this is undoubtedly the most challenging period facing civil aviation since 1945! It goes without saying that they are suffering financially, as are many others in the industry, but they’re not scratching round behind the sofa for loose change just yet.
Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP
Hit the nail on the head! To press on with even a limited program which could prove more costly than keeping the aircraft on the ground is a risk they are clearly unwilling to take.
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Vokes`s arguments I suggest are the same long held views as previously noted regarding the virus/pandemic restrictions & not having another outlet here now is using the Jet2 page to channel those views.
Crikey, how Jet2 have not offered Vokes 55 a job to rescue them I don't know.
They're a pretty astute bunch at J2 and they would have done their calculations. Making good use of furlough. Not outsourcing so many ground handling services has worked for them & they all can be paid under furlough. The stop start situation others have been in is expensive.
We don't even know where the "green corridors" will be yet- but we do know they will come with hefty PCR tests for all destinations to get back to the UK.
Many of the elderly J2 fleet are owned & not under expensive leases like easyJet, their capitol value is low & they can be stored at low cost.
J2 have been very busy with numerous 737s doing crew training rather than sims- thus keeping the aircraft in active status.
They know what works for them & they will never be the same as TUI or easyJet- completely different set up.
Less leases, no outsourcing.
Try not to worry about J2 Voke55 I'm sure they'll manage without your incisive business acumen.
Relax & book your easyJet flight if that's what you want.
They're a pretty astute bunch at J2 and they would have done their calculations. Making good use of furlough. Not outsourcing so many ground handling services has worked for them & they all can be paid under furlough. The stop start situation others have been in is expensive.
We don't even know where the "green corridors" will be yet- but we do know they will come with hefty PCR tests for all destinations to get back to the UK.
Many of the elderly J2 fleet are owned & not under expensive leases like easyJet, their capitol value is low & they can be stored at low cost.
J2 have been very busy with numerous 737s doing crew training rather than sims- thus keeping the aircraft in active status.
They know what works for them & they will never be the same as TUI or easyJet- completely different set up.
Less leases, no outsourcing.
Try not to worry about J2 Voke55 I'm sure they'll manage without your incisive business acumen.
Relax & book your easyJet flight if that's what you want.
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Jet2 are taking a conservative approach, they haven’t borrowed huge sums of money and are rightly anticipating the big draw on finance that restarting the operation will entail.
The bailouts and rights issues that some airlines and travel companies have signed up for will, if I can quote BoJo, risk making Jet2’s competitors “hostages to fortune”
The bailouts and rights issues that some airlines and travel companies have signed up for will, if I can quote BoJo, risk making Jet2’s competitors “hostages to fortune”
