Manchester-3
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Thanks for the link. I certainly hope it does too Navpi.
The emphasis here is of course on nightlife, festivals, community spirit which is fair enough. However, Manchester (and the Airport) must also continue to sell itself as an international centre for Business and Investment which are other key ingredients from the aviation perspective.
The emphasis here is of course on nightlife, festivals, community spirit which is fair enough. However, Manchester (and the Airport) must also continue to sell itself as an international centre for Business and Investment which are other key ingredients from the aviation perspective.
I know it's not what you meant, but Timeout isn't well known for it's business output.
As a total aside, a friend dropped her daughter off at the weekend in her trendy Ancoats flat for her first post-university job. She is over the moon (other hip young peoples phrases are available) to be living in the middle of the UK's most exciting, happening city. She's even commuting out to the airport from the city centre (!).
Our collective minds were boggled - kids, eh?
As a total aside, a friend dropped her daughter off at the weekend in her trendy Ancoats flat for her first post-university job. She is over the moon (other hip young peoples phrases are available) to be living in the middle of the UK's most exciting, happening city. She's even commuting out to the airport from the city centre (!).
Our collective minds were boggled - kids, eh?
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Aqaba is great news. Fascinating culture, history and some great beaches. This Red Sea resort is a gateway to Petra, said to be one of the 7 wonders of the world, and offers some great reefs for diving as well. A great addition to MAN's winter sun portfolio as temperatures rarely fall below 20C in mid-winter. Nice to see this exiting new route from EZY and confidence steadily returning to MAN 😀.
Last edited by DomyDom; 10th Sep 2021 at 07:35.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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OzzyOzBorn
I have to take issue with you on some of this post. MUC is more central within Europe obviously, but the surrounding countries all have good connections be it Austria / Switzerland / Poland / Czech / Slovak, though I agree the latter two to a lesser degree. Also you have Frankfurt and Stuttgart in close proximity, the former having obviously first class connections to every part of the globe as do Amsterdam / Paris / LHR in that respect. Given greater population density in the UK MAN catchment is considerable in that respect. I agree with you that LH does a far better job in supporting the regions within Germany than BA does in the UK, but that is not my point, and should be discussed on BA thread more.
My point is MAN dos not seem to be that well managed, in that they never seem to repair basic infrastructure with all the tales of broken lifts and travellator's, broken lights, leaking toilets etc, never mind large capital projects. Then when they do invest, you end up with the some what dogs dinner of the new T2, though I am going from Mrs Mac comments, as I have yet to use this part of the airport, given the carriers I use currently go from T1. MUC is not a primary hub for LH, that will always be Frankfurt it acts as a very good regional airport within Germany, and to a lesser degree a portion of some of the surrounding countries. I am not having a go at MAN as in the individuals working there but it is the way these people are managed and the infrastructure is maintained and indeed planned. Given the propensity for certain individuals to consume beer at very odd hours in the early hours while heading on holiday you would think ensuring that your new terminal has sufficient toilet facilities would be a basic requirement and would be have been discussed at design stage along with various other items. As I have actually been involved in building a number of airports around the globe, I am quite versed in the discussions that are undertaken in the planning and execution of the build. Judging from the limited comments from those who have used the new T2 facilities the management do not seem to have been that involved, or they were too busy eating the sandwiches
I have to take issue with you on some of this post. MUC is more central within Europe obviously, but the surrounding countries all have good connections be it Austria / Switzerland / Poland / Czech / Slovak, though I agree the latter two to a lesser degree. Also you have Frankfurt and Stuttgart in close proximity, the former having obviously first class connections to every part of the globe as do Amsterdam / Paris / LHR in that respect. Given greater population density in the UK MAN catchment is considerable in that respect. I agree with you that LH does a far better job in supporting the regions within Germany than BA does in the UK, but that is not my point, and should be discussed on BA thread more.
My point is MAN dos not seem to be that well managed, in that they never seem to repair basic infrastructure with all the tales of broken lifts and travellator's, broken lights, leaking toilets etc, never mind large capital projects. Then when they do invest, you end up with the some what dogs dinner of the new T2, though I am going from Mrs Mac comments, as I have yet to use this part of the airport, given the carriers I use currently go from T1. MUC is not a primary hub for LH, that will always be Frankfurt it acts as a very good regional airport within Germany, and to a lesser degree a portion of some of the surrounding countries. I am not having a go at MAN as in the individuals working there but it is the way these people are managed and the infrastructure is maintained and indeed planned. Given the propensity for certain individuals to consume beer at very odd hours in the early hours while heading on holiday you would think ensuring that your new terminal has sufficient toilet facilities would be a basic requirement and would be have been discussed at design stage along with various other items. As I have actually been involved in building a number of airports around the globe, I am quite versed in the discussions that are undertaken in the planning and execution of the build. Judging from the limited comments from those who have used the new T2 facilities the management do not seem to have been that involved, or they were too busy eating the sandwiches
"MAN dos not seem to be that well managed, in that they never seem to repair basic infrastructure with all the tales of broken lifts and travellator's, broken lights, leaking toilets etc, never mind large capital projects."
Regretfully you can say the same about most UK Airports
Regretfully you can say the same about most UK Airports
Thanks for your feedback, Mr Mac. Firstly, whilst taking on board your comments about infrastructure and maintenance issues at MAN, I suggest that observations of this sort are part of a different conversation entirely. The quote from me relates purely to the respective roles of MAN and MUC in their respective markets, as some observers believe the two to share very similar catchment characteristics. As I explained, in terms of attractiveness to interline business, they do not. Of course, I have never suggested that MUC is Lufthansa's first-choice hub - that is FRA. But it is undeniable that the group has put considerable effort into developing a complementary hub role for MUC with a wealth of connecting opportunities offered on all the main flight booking sites. And it has to be acknowledged that the geography helps. But I don't think of STR as a hub player at all.
Short-term covid considerations aside, MUC enjoys a far greater traffic boost from interline than MAN could ever realistically pitch for. MAN must overwhelmingly rely on P2P business, with a welcome niche interline top-up courtesy of destinations such as IOM, plus a gentle sprinkling of price-led long-haul connecting business.
Short-term covid considerations aside, MUC enjoys a far greater traffic boost from interline than MAN could ever realistically pitch for. MAN must overwhelmingly rely on P2P business, with a welcome niche interline top-up courtesy of destinations such as IOM, plus a gentle sprinkling of price-led long-haul connecting business.
Munich has the German national carrier (yes, that one, not a state owned flag carrier but you all know the market dominance that brings) with it's 2nd long haul hub. It plays FRA off against MUC, indeed the A380s being moved out of FRA were part of that game. Hence the airport is core to the strategy of a dominant airline. MAN by contrast is a spoke on everyone else's routemap, even Virgin with it's based aircraft doesn't constitute any form of real hub.
Locos like FR and EZY do well but on point to point playing to their strengths.
And given our own equivalent of Lufthansa isn't going to change any of that, muddling through as before is all we can realistically expect.
Locos like FR and EZY do well but on point to point playing to their strengths.
And given our own equivalent of Lufthansa isn't going to change any of that, muddling through as before is all we can realistically expect.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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OzzyOzBorn
When London Airways served Manchester, indeed any of the area outside of the M25 without just putting you on AC to LHR, then regional airports worked for those who used them for business, rather than the yearly trip or indeed more to the Costas. If London Airways made money on these regional services I do not know, but I was a regular on the JFK flight for a while back in late 90;s and on BMI service to Chicago in early 2000 and both services were well patronized. I now use the LH service to MUC, and indeed other LH services into Germany, along with EK and SQ but will not ever be returning to BA, as this concentration on LHR really does not work, if you are not in the Home Counties. The rest of us will just use, to be honest the better alternatives, going to other points supplied by the likes of LH/KLM/SAS/ Finnair along with the longer haul services who serve MAN well, indeed pre COVID better than LHR BA service.
When London Airways served Manchester, indeed any of the area outside of the M25 without just putting you on AC to LHR, then regional airports worked for those who used them for business, rather than the yearly trip or indeed more to the Costas. If London Airways made money on these regional services I do not know, but I was a regular on the JFK flight for a while back in late 90;s and on BMI service to Chicago in early 2000 and both services were well patronized. I now use the LH service to MUC, and indeed other LH services into Germany, along with EK and SQ but will not ever be returning to BA, as this concentration on LHR really does not work, if you are not in the Home Counties. The rest of us will just use, to be honest the better alternatives, going to other points supplied by the likes of LH/KLM/SAS/ Finnair along with the longer haul services who serve MAN well, indeed pre COVID better than LHR BA service.
Last edited by Mr Mac; 13th Sep 2021 at 17:56.
If you wanted to compare MAN to any German airport, I would say Dusseldorf. Pre Covid both airports handled virtually the same number of flights.
DUS also underwent a new terminal revamp-remember the disastrous fire.. No national flag carrier based, as Lufthansa pulled out in 2018, but a substantial German/Euro wings operation, the huge one time LTU operation hasn't entirely been replaced. Three terminals - similar to Man, 2 runways like MAN, train station like MAN, similar pax numbers.
However, DUS was provided with large landslide bars, cafes, shops. Inter terminal monorail that serves all three terminals, car parks & train station. On demand (working) walkways & escalators etc.
The DUS passenger experience is far superior in so many ways.
The leaky skylink with the non moving walkways doesn't quiet cut it.
DUS also underwent a new terminal revamp-remember the disastrous fire.. No national flag carrier based, as Lufthansa pulled out in 2018, but a substantial German/Euro wings operation, the huge one time LTU operation hasn't entirely been replaced. Three terminals - similar to Man, 2 runways like MAN, train station like MAN, similar pax numbers.
However, DUS was provided with large landslide bars, cafes, shops. Inter terminal monorail that serves all three terminals, car parks & train station. On demand (working) walkways & escalators etc.
The DUS passenger experience is far superior in so many ways.
The leaky skylink with the non moving walkways doesn't quiet cut it.
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Spot on re Dusseldorf its long been a twin of Manchester with similar catchment and dynamics and cultural ties !
The regions even have a mainly cargo hub a few tens of miles away (Cologne/East Midlands) and a flexible fares airport robbing business (Dortmund/Liverpool)
The regions even have a mainly cargo hub a few tens of miles away (Cologne/East Midlands) and a flexible fares airport robbing business (Dortmund/Liverpool)
What's going on if a passenger being taken ill in a terminal closes the airport for an hour?
Flights divert due to Manchester airport closure as firefighters provide medical help (msn.com)
Flights divert due to Manchester airport closure as firefighters provide medical help (msn.com)
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Mr A Tis / Rutan16
I have never used Dusseldorf yet, so could not comment, but I have googled the interior following your own recommendation's, and it does indeed look rather better than the posh bus shelter, masquerading as an international airport that is the new T2 experience as described by Mrs Mac at MAN.
I have never used Dusseldorf yet, so could not comment, but I have googled the interior following your own recommendation's, and it does indeed look rather better than the posh bus shelter, masquerading as an international airport that is the new T2 experience as described by Mrs Mac at MAN.
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c52
No paramedics on shift in the evenings at the moment...only the airport fire service available which are seemingly on bare minimum staffing as well so as soon as a couple of guys get called into the terminal the remainder can no longer provide sufficient RFFS coverage. This is the second time in a few weeks the airport has had zero fire coverage for almost an hour due to a sick passenger in the terminal in the evening, resulting in several diversions on both occasions.
No paramedics on shift in the evenings at the moment...only the airport fire service available which are seemingly on bare minimum staffing as well so as soon as a couple of guys get called into the terminal the remainder can no longer provide sufficient RFFS coverage. This is the second time in a few weeks the airport has had zero fire coverage for almost an hour due to a sick passenger in the terminal in the evening, resulting in several diversions on both occasions.
Manchester Airport said it had made the decision to switch off travelators, but did not recognise reports that escalators were also not functioning.
A spokesman said: “We review our maintenance and investment programmes each year to prioritise our resources where they’re needed most. Due to the financial impact of the coronavirus pandemic on our business - and the severely limited financial support airports have received from government - we have needed to focus our expenditure on protecting employment, maintaining critical infrastructure and Covid-related safety measures. This has meant we have needed to take the travelators linking Terminal One, the station and Terminal Two out of service after they reached the end of their life cycle, and due to the costs involved in bringing them back into operation. The situation will be reviewed regularly, with all suitable options considered as the aviation sector recovers and our operations continue to remobilise.”
A spokesman said: “We review our maintenance and investment programmes each year to prioritise our resources where they’re needed most. Due to the financial impact of the coronavirus pandemic on our business - and the severely limited financial support airports have received from government - we have needed to focus our expenditure on protecting employment, maintaining critical infrastructure and Covid-related safety measures. This has meant we have needed to take the travelators linking Terminal One, the station and Terminal Two out of service after they reached the end of their life cycle, and due to the costs involved in bringing them back into operation. The situation will be reviewed regularly, with all suitable options considered as the aviation sector recovers and our operations continue to remobilise.”
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A point to add re the German airport development; Frankfurt is building Terminal 3 on the old USAF facility; that building work did not stop during the covid crisis in fact it's accelerated. MAN missed a great opportunity to complete the Terminal 2 redevelopment while it was closed.
You really love to kick Manchester don`t you, I saw the same thing happen at Heathrow a few years ago,
you only need to be one person short and you are not licenced and yes I bet they are short of cash.
you only need to be one person short and you are not licenced and yes I bet they are short of cash.
Navpi - maybe they agree with you that "The holiday industry, business travel and the aviation industry as a whole is being SYSTEMATICALLY screwed.", and so are taking a cautious approach with their cash while the outlook is so uncertain.
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MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA
Firstly, there's no way that they could've done that logistically, given that the new build wasn't even complete when the pandemic/lockdown hit. That aside, I can't see how it'd have been in any way sensible for them to immediately press ahead with the future phases with the level of uncertainty that has persisted for the last 12m+ and facing a decrease in revenue of 80%.
As regards your comment of them accelerating the build of FRA T3 - the last information I saw was that they are now forecasting an opening date of 2026, from 2023.
Firstly, there's no way that they could've done that logistically, given that the new build wasn't even complete when the pandemic/lockdown hit. That aside, I can't see how it'd have been in any way sensible for them to immediately press ahead with the future phases with the level of uncertainty that has persisted for the last 12m+ and facing a decrease in revenue of 80%.
As regards your comment of them accelerating the build of FRA T3 - the last information I saw was that they are now forecasting an opening date of 2026, from 2023.
Last edited by DP.; 20th Sep 2021 at 12:23.