Manchester-3
Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t see any widebody op’s in T3 ever again, even if AA were to return, and as I said I don’t believe you can keep everything in a neat and tidy box when it comes to alliances and operating models.
My main point however was that you can’t really differentiate Terminal allocation on passenger spend either, at least in MAN, the misconception being that LCC pax spend less. Having worked for both a network carrier and LCC it very much depends on destination and it’s your leisure traveller that spends the most. At MAN, leisure is still the dominant demographic. That is partly why MAN has so many based aircraft, many of which are from LCC’s. Imagine trying to get all those away on a morning if they are all nicely ‘sectorised’.
My main point however was that you can’t really differentiate Terminal allocation on passenger spend either, at least in MAN, the misconception being that LCC pax spend less. Having worked for both a network carrier and LCC it very much depends on destination and it’s your leisure traveller that spends the most. At MAN, leisure is still the dominant demographic. That is partly why MAN has so many based aircraft, many of which are from LCC’s. Imagine trying to get all those away on a morning if they are all nicely ‘sectorised’.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Between them FR and easyJet will have ~40 aircraft next summer. Plus the inbound flights from other bases. Jet2 and TUI must be a similar size between them at T2.
Clearly easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 and TUI will dominate MAN’s allocations. EK are important because the A380 has its own restrictions. The VS, CX, BA, EI operate a fraction of the flights on standard wide-bodies, while they might be good for the ego, the reality is that it’s easyJets and Ryanair’s that keep the passenger throughput high.
If FR are happy at T3 and easyJet at T1 then nothing will change, other than more ‘network’ airlines moving to T2. The VS lounge and rumoured BA/oneworld facilities increase the likelihood. I think we all acknowledge T3 isn’t a great passenger experience and that COVID has hit the groups appetite for further redevelopment right now. I think most of the discussion is around how it can be improved in the short term.
Clearly easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 and TUI will dominate MAN’s allocations. EK are important because the A380 has its own restrictions. The VS, CX, BA, EI operate a fraction of the flights on standard wide-bodies, while they might be good for the ego, the reality is that it’s easyJets and Ryanair’s that keep the passenger throughput high.
If FR are happy at T3 and easyJet at T1 then nothing will change, other than more ‘network’ airlines moving to T2. The VS lounge and rumoured BA/oneworld facilities increase the likelihood. I think we all acknowledge T3 isn’t a great passenger experience and that COVID has hit the groups appetite for further redevelopment right now. I think most of the discussion is around how it can be improved in the short term.
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An improvement in the T3 passenger experience is required if passengers are to make it through security in the target time of 15 mins for the KPI’s!
But in reality it’s a bloody nightmare, not to mention the small immigration area!
Security being relocated to the current T3 check in areas would be better but I can see this happening.
Is there anyway to merge T1/T3 so security and immigration closer together to create bigger areas?
I can’t see the current T1 security or immigration coping next summer season with all those multiple EZY & FR flights!
But in reality it’s a bloody nightmare, not to mention the small immigration area!
Security being relocated to the current T3 check in areas would be better but I can see this happening.
Is there anyway to merge T1/T3 so security and immigration closer together to create bigger areas?
I can’t see the current T1 security or immigration coping next summer season with all those multiple EZY & FR flights!
Not sure how you can improve T3 without major surgery. As soon as, I think its Gate 141 unloads, the whole access to the T3 concourse is closed off, been stuck there many a time either trying to get into the concourse of trying to go back having been allocated gate 18 or those along there. The best you could get is maybe RYR & EZY take over T3 completely as their own terminal. It would require less ticketing desks, less check in desks-more self service check in. Check in area B in T1 given over to Loganair, Eastern, Blue Island, Are Lingus CTA flights & BA, with their own B security area open to time with their departures, to make short/domestic flights more viable time wise.
On another note, in T2 arrivals, I see that M & S is now closed down already & they were busy packing everything up today.
The new T2 check area looks rather spacious - but that maybe because there is zero seating anywhere, apart from mobility assistance area. The new check in area toilets also are a bit sparse, the Gents has one urinal & two cubicles, I guess you need to cross your legs until through security-however long that may take. When I went through, only one lane was open that doubled up as fast track too.
On another note, in T2 arrivals, I see that M & S is now closed down already & they were busy packing everything up today.
The new T2 check area looks rather spacious - but that maybe because there is zero seating anywhere, apart from mobility assistance area. The new check in area toilets also are a bit sparse, the Gents has one urinal & two cubicles, I guess you need to cross your legs until through security-however long that may take. When I went through, only one lane was open that doubled up as fast track too.
If T3 is so bad and so cramped, why would MAG put both its biggest carriers into the same terminal? One or the other absolutely but both? Why? Absolute carnage.
It’s all a moot point as, from what I know, everything is up in the air post covid. Post covid, EasyJet were meant to move to T2 in 2022, whether that transpires to be the case, who knows. It will be a case of how the cards fall.
It’s all a moot point as, from what I know, everything is up in the air post covid. Post covid, EasyJet were meant to move to T2 in 2022, whether that transpires to be the case, who knows. It will be a case of how the cards fall.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I was saying in my post I don’t think some posters recognise who butters the bread at MAN. With 40 aircraft between them at MAN it’s easyJet and Ryanair. Jet2 and TUI too. MAG makes money by selling parking, lattes and duty-free. The volumes put through the place by the above 4 pale in comparison to the long haul routes.
The idea that easyJet and Ryanair would both be in T3 is fanciful. How would the place cope with 40 departures in the first wave? No hope!
The idea that easyJet and Ryanair would both be in T3 is fanciful. How would the place cope with 40 departures in the first wave? No hope!
Between 0500 & 0900 today (1st wave) there were 25 departures between EZY & RYR, not 40. Pre C19 T3 was handling, badly admittedly, more than 25 departures in 4 hours.
I would suggest very different, for starters 2 runways and they have 4 months to get it sorted terminal wise. But in reality what will things be like with this strain of Covid
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Based on the initial slot applications for S22 at MAN, it's been reported that easyjet would have 20 based aircraft and Ryanair 19. So 39 which is pretty close to 40. The 2 extra based a/c for easyjet has been announced. Whether Ryanair intend to base all 7 additional a/c to make the 19 is another matter, and a (small) percentage of the slots so far allocated (which is in the public domain) are more than 30 minutes outside the times requested. A couple of years or so ago, slot applications indicated that Ryanair wanted to put extra a/c (5?) into MAN at a time when flybe had a busy operation in T3 as well as some legacy carriers such as BA & AA. The full story is probably not known but the outcome was that MAN couldn't accommodate those additional units or Ryanair decided the slot times were not acceptable.
In this climate, MAN can't afford to turn away business and which could otherwise go to competitor airports, so it's to be hoped the airport pull out all the stops to accommodate whatever growth Ryanair plan. The relatively high number of flights the airline operates into MAN with non-based a/c is very welcome, but 3 or 4 of those are required each day to make up for 1 based unit.
In this climate, MAN can't afford to turn away business and which could otherwise go to competitor airports, so it's to be hoped the airport pull out all the stops to accommodate whatever growth Ryanair plan. The relatively high number of flights the airline operates into MAN with non-based a/c is very welcome, but 3 or 4 of those are required each day to make up for 1 based unit.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rutan16
But what’s the logic of putting all easyJet and Ryanair passengers through T3 to bus them to T1 or midfield stands? As one poster mentioned LCC passengers tend to spend time and money at the airport. LCCs are the major demographic at most airports, their operations and passengers aren’t a flash in the pan inconvenience for BA, Singapore airlines or airport operators. They are the major source of passengers and ancillary revenue.
MAG aren’t going to shoehorn a planned 39/40 737/A320 operation for summer 2022 into T3 to suit some nostalgic vision of an industry that existed in the 90/00s when they thought easyJet would be a footnote in history and Ryanair served Dublin in the shadow of Aer Lingus.
But what’s the logic of putting all easyJet and Ryanair passengers through T3 to bus them to T1 or midfield stands? As one poster mentioned LCC passengers tend to spend time and money at the airport. LCCs are the major demographic at most airports, their operations and passengers aren’t a flash in the pan inconvenience for BA, Singapore airlines or airport operators. They are the major source of passengers and ancillary revenue.
MAG aren’t going to shoehorn a planned 39/40 737/A320 operation for summer 2022 into T3 to suit some nostalgic vision of an industry that existed in the 90/00s when they thought easyJet would be a footnote in history and Ryanair served Dublin in the shadow of Aer Lingus.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MANFAN
Unlikely. T1 and T3 security areas, aside from not really being that close to each other, are on different floors. If I recall correctly, the other side of the wall from T3 security is the airline lounges so you're talking pretty major upheaval to get anything workable. You also have to consider getting passengers all the way back there in the first place. It sounds like it'd be a significant capital investment that MAG are unlikely to want to commit to considering that T1 didn't feature in their long-term plans, pre-pandemic at least.
Unlikely. T1 and T3 security areas, aside from not really being that close to each other, are on different floors. If I recall correctly, the other side of the wall from T3 security is the airline lounges so you're talking pretty major upheaval to get anything workable. You also have to consider getting passengers all the way back there in the first place. It sounds like it'd be a significant capital investment that MAG are unlikely to want to commit to considering that T1 didn't feature in their long-term plans, pre-pandemic at least.
Quite possibly but my comment was in the context of those who seem to want to shoe horn the airports two biggest customers into one terminal simply based on their operating model whilst suggesting that certain other carriers wouldn’t stand for it….. when in reality, those airlines fly into lots of 
hole airports right across the Globe.
hole airports right across the Globe.
I don't want to see operators 'shoehorned' into T3. I do want to see the dividing screen removed to allow the T1/T3 campus function as a single integrated unit again. It is all one building really, and opening it up enables the flexibility which MAN now desperately needs.
The main issue obstructing this is the way MAN has traditionally segregated domestic passengers from international. But that has been adapted for covid. We've seen that it can be done. And once domestic can be flowed through T2, the problem is fully resolved.
The main issue obstructing this is the way MAN has traditionally segregated domestic passengers from international. But that has been adapted for covid. We've seen that it can be done. And once domestic can be flowed through T2, the problem is fully resolved.
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
brian_dromey
You miss quoted me I said Ryan and Easy should be accommodated within T1/T2 and T3 returned to its roll as a primarily domestic and Oneworld hub it was designed for .
T3 is dysfunctional by design and footprint .
Still its just an opinion
You miss quoted me I said Ryan and Easy should be accommodated within T1/T2 and T3 returned to its roll as a primarily domestic and Oneworld hub it was designed for .
T3 is dysfunctional by design and footprint .
Still its just an opinion
OzzyOzBorn
Didn't that tradition go away years ago when the biometrics nonsense was introduced at T3 for the benefit of the handful of connecting passengers routing xyz-MAN-abc?
Didn't that tradition go away years ago when the biometrics nonsense was introduced at T3 for the benefit of the handful of connecting passengers routing xyz-MAN-abc?
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From a security perspective fundamentally disagree with the mixing of domestic and international travellers airside its simply poor and especially in view of the government policy of segregation of arrival and departures post security.
The only reason certain airport operators like it is for retail opportunities .
The only reason certain airport operators like it is for retail opportunities .