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Manchester-3

Old 25th Nov 2021, 00:28
  #821 (permalink)  
 
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I think Qatar might refuse, they're really, really not going to be keen to be jammed into a Ryanair dominated T3, and that's no slight on FR who I have flown happily many times. T3 has major pain points in boarding, especially around Gate 44, it was a cul de sac of mayhem some days when American used to board from 44 or 48. You're not going to want a Qatar B77W or a Cathay A350 in that mix. The customer experience is overwhelmingly loco and even BA don't belong there anymore.
When BA moved to LGW South, there was a financial inducement, pier one was brand new, the satellite is pretty spacious and they got a new lounge and dedicated large checkin area, and plane to train was way quicker. South lost easyJet and the loco vibe with only a few Ryanair, Vueling and Norwegain remaining. At MAN T3 you'd have a bussling FR dominated loco terminal with some Oneworld squatters IMHO.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 07:58
  #822 (permalink)  
 
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Donít misunderstand me, I donít see any widebody opís in T3 ever again, even if AA were to return, and as I said I donít believe you can keep everything in a neat and tidy box when it comes to alliances and operating models.

My main point however was that you canít really differentiate Terminal allocation on passenger spend either, at least in MAN, the misconception being that LCC pax spend less. Having worked for both a network carrier and LCC it very much depends on destination and itís your leisure traveller that spends the most. At MAN, leisure is still the dominant demographic. That is partly why MAN has so many based aircraft, many of which are from LCCís. Imagine trying to get all those away on a morning if they are all nicely Ďsectorisedí.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 10:45
  #823 (permalink)  
 
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Between them FR and easyJet will have ~40 aircraft next summer. Plus the inbound flights from other bases. Jet2 and TUI must be a similar size between them at T2.

Clearly easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 and TUI will dominate MANís allocations. EK are important because the A380 has its own restrictions. The VS, CX, BA, EI operate a fraction of the flights on standard wide-bodies, while they might be good for the ego, the reality is that itís easyJets and Ryanairís that keep the passenger throughput high.

If FR are happy at T3 and easyJet at T1 then nothing will change, other than more Ďnetworkí airlines moving to T2. The VS lounge and rumoured BA/oneworld facilities increase the likelihood. I think we all acknowledge T3 isnít a great passenger experience and that COVID has hit the groups appetite for further redevelopment right now. I think most of the discussion is around how it can be improved in the short term.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 13:08
  #824 (permalink)  
 
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An improvement in the T3 passenger experience is required if passengers are to make it through security in the target time of 15 mins for the KPIís!
But in reality itís a bloody nightmare, not to mention the small immigration area!
Security being relocated to the current T3 check in areas would be better but I can see this happening.
Is there anyway to merge T1/T3 so security and immigration closer together to create bigger areas?
I canít see the current T1 security or immigration coping next summer season with all those multiple EZY & FR flights!
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 15:03
  #825 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure how you can improve T3 without major surgery. As soon as, I think its Gate 141 unloads, the whole access to the T3 concourse is closed off, been stuck there many a time either trying to get into the concourse of trying to go back having been allocated gate 18 or those along there. The best you could get is maybe RYR & EZY take over T3 completely as their own terminal. It would require less ticketing desks, less check in desks-more self service check in. Check in area B in T1 given over to Loganair, Eastern, Blue Island, Are Lingus CTA flights & BA, with their own B security area open to time with their departures, to make short/domestic flights more viable time wise.

On another note, in T2 arrivals, I see that M & S is now closed down already & they were busy packing everything up today.
The new T2 check area looks rather spacious - but that maybe because there is zero seating anywhere, apart from mobility assistance area. The new check in area toilets also are a bit sparse, the Gents has one urinal & two cubicles, I guess you need to cross your legs until through security-however long that may take. When I went through, only one lane was open that doubled up as fast track too.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 17:11
  #826 (permalink)  
 
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If T3 is so bad and so cramped, why would MAG put both its biggest carriers into the same terminal? One or the other absolutely but both? Why? Absolute carnage.

It’s all a moot point as, from what I know, everything is up in the air post covid. Post covid, EasyJet were meant to move to T2 in 2022, whether that transpires to be the case, who knows. It will be a case of how the cards fall.
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 19:20
  #827 (permalink)  
 
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As I was saying in my post I donít think some posters recognise who butters the bread at MAN. With 40 aircraft between them at MAN itís easyJet and Ryanair. Jet2 and TUI too. MAG makes money by selling parking, lattes and duty-free. The volumes put through the place by the above 4 pale in comparison to the long haul routes.

The idea that easyJet and Ryanair would both be in T3 is fanciful. How would the place cope with 40 departures in the first wave? No hope!
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Old 25th Nov 2021, 21:07
  #828 (permalink)  
 
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Secure Airside coaching and transfers would solve that problem . Heathrow have been doing this for decades !
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 08:20
  #829 (permalink)  
 
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Between 0500 & 0900 today (1st wave) there were 25 departures between EZY & RYR, not 40. Pre C19 T3 was handling, badly admittedly, more than 25 departures in 4 hours.
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 08:45
  #830 (permalink)  
 
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at the quietest time of the year. What will the position be next summer?
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 09:54
  #831 (permalink)  
 
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I would suggest very different, for starters 2 runways and they have 4 months to get it sorted terminal wise. But in reality what will things be like with this strain of Covid
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 10:02
  #832 (permalink)  
 
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Based on the initial slot applications for S22 at MAN, it's been reported that easyjet would have 20 based aircraft and Ryanair 19. So 39 which is pretty close to 40. The 2 extra based a/c for easyjet has been announced. Whether Ryanair intend to base all 7 additional a/c to make the 19 is another matter, and a (small) percentage of the slots so far allocated (which is in the public domain) are more than 30 minutes outside the times requested. A couple of years or so ago, slot applications indicated that Ryanair wanted to put extra a/c (5?) into MAN at a time when flybe had a busy operation in T3 as well as some legacy carriers such as BA & AA. The full story is probably not known but the outcome was that MAN couldn't accommodate those additional units or Ryanair decided the slot times were not acceptable.

In this climate, MAN can't afford to turn away business and which could otherwise go to competitor airports, so it's to be hoped the airport pull out all the stops to accommodate whatever growth Ryanair plan. The relatively high number of flights the airline operates into MAN with non-based a/c is very welcome, but 3 or 4 of those are required each day to make up for 1 based unit.
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 10:32
  #833 (permalink)  
 
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Rutan16

But what’s the logic of putting all easyJet and Ryanair passengers through T3 to bus them to T1 or midfield stands? As one poster mentioned LCC passengers tend to spend time and money at the airport. LCCs are the major demographic at most airports, their operations and passengers aren’t a flash in the pan inconvenience for BA, Singapore airlines or airport operators. They are the major source of passengers and ancillary revenue.
MAG aren’t going to shoehorn a planned 39/40 737/A320 operation for summer 2022 into T3 to suit some nostalgic vision of an industry that existed in the 90/00s when they thought easyJet would be a footnote in history and Ryanair served Dublin in the shadow of Aer Lingus.
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 12:44
  #834 (permalink)  
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MANFAN

Unlikely. T1 and T3 security areas, aside from not really being that close to each other, are on different floors. If I recall correctly, the other side of the wall from T3 security is the airline lounges so you're talking pretty major upheaval to get anything workable. You also have to consider getting passengers all the way back there in the first place. It sounds like it'd be a significant capital investment that MAG are unlikely to want to commit to considering that T1 didn't feature in their long-term plans, pre-pandemic at least.
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 12:48
  #835 (permalink)  
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easyflyer83

That in itself is true, but if the proposed alternative was the existing T3, I'd suggest that would make them far more likely to decline it.
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Old 26th Nov 2021, 13:46
  #836 (permalink)  
 
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Quite possibly but my comment was in the context of those who seem to want to shoe horn the airports two biggest customers into one terminal simply based on their operating model whilst suggesting that certain other carriers wouldn’t stand for it….. when in reality, those airlines fly into lots of hole airports right across the Globe.
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Old 27th Nov 2021, 03:37
  #837 (permalink)  
 
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I don't want to see operators 'shoehorned' into T3. I do want to see the dividing screen removed to allow the T1/T3 campus function as a single integrated unit again. It is all one building really, and opening it up enables the flexibility which MAN now desperately needs.

The main issue obstructing this is the way MAN has traditionally segregated domestic passengers from international. But that has been adapted for covid. We've seen that it can be done. And once domestic can be flowed through T2, the problem is fully resolved.
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Old 27th Nov 2021, 09:16
  #838 (permalink)  
 
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brian_dromey

You miss quoted me I said Ryan and Easy should be accommodated within T1/T2 and T3 returned to its roll as a primarily domestic and Oneworld hub it was designed for .
T3 is dysfunctional by design and footprint .
Still its just an opinion
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Old 27th Nov 2021, 11:55
  #839 (permalink)  
 
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OzzyOzBorn

Didn't that tradition go away years ago when the biometrics nonsense was introduced at T3 for the benefit of the handful of connecting passengers routing xyz-MAN-abc?
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Old 27th Nov 2021, 15:08
  #840 (permalink)  
 
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OzzyOzBorn

Which, incidentally, by all accounts is the sticking point for easy’s move to T2.
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