Flybe-V1
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Skipness One Foxtrot
Valid points but then they pushed pretty much every other region operator off routes in the past and even bought a few as a result of the q400. This was before the vanity project of getting involved with jets. LM stand no chance against a new BE on trunk routes to the UK. The 145s are incredibly cramp and the ATR 500s that they use are noisy and slow. The q400 might still be a prop but it is fast, relatively quiet and spacious compared to those two. The price is always going to be much lower on a q400 vs a 145 as well which customers will notice. If LM were building their fleet around the ATR 600 then you would probably have a point about joe public not noticing the difference. I think LM plan to have 4 600s so maybe they are planning to use some on the right routes.
Valid points but then they pushed pretty much every other region operator off routes in the past and even bought a few as a result of the q400. This was before the vanity project of getting involved with jets. LM stand no chance against a new BE on trunk routes to the UK. The 145s are incredibly cramp and the ATR 500s that they use are noisy and slow. The q400 might still be a prop but it is fast, relatively quiet and spacious compared to those two. The price is always going to be much lower on a q400 vs a 145 as well which customers will notice. If LM were building their fleet around the ATR 600 then you would probably have a point about joe public not noticing the difference. I think LM plan to have 4 600s so maybe they are planning to use some on the right routes.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I am wondering if another point is around the number of seats on the different types.
The E145s and ATR 42s have around 50 seats whilst the Q400 has around 80.
I presume that in the same way as Flybe would struggle for example against EZY on BHX - EDI where the economics of an A319 wins over a Dash albeit with less rotations, the same applies between the Q400 and a 145 / ATR 42?
Obviously the ATR 72 has more seats so the maths would likely be closer on that equation.
The E145s and ATR 42s have around 50 seats whilst the Q400 has around 80.
I presume that in the same way as Flybe would struggle for example against EZY on BHX - EDI where the economics of an A319 wins over a Dash albeit with less rotations, the same applies between the Q400 and a 145 / ATR 42?
Obviously the ATR 72 has more seats so the maths would likely be closer on that equation.
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There is no doubt that the Q400 is a fast prop, that is true. However, as other posters have mentioned this benefit will not be realised at all. And, if it is, it'll be a matter of minutes on the longest of sectors. The 145s may look cramped but I've personally never had a bad experience on them. I'd go as far as saying they are possibly the most comfortable experience on the UK domestic market despite their cabins being dated. I haven't had a terrible experience on a Q400 either but I have always found them tighter. This is of course subjective. As for the ATR fleet it must also be noted that the -500/-600 denotation is a marketing name for the -212A rendering them essentially the same bar a few matters which won't make much of a difference to passenger experience. These include newer PW127M engines and also a refreshed avionics suite on the -600. Furthermore, all of LM's -500s have recieved new cabins indentical to that which are most commonly found on -600s today. Infact I do believe the cabin is indential to the AT46 they've recieved recently. The fact is "Joe Public" won't notice a difference between their AT45/46s, and if they do, they're also a spotter with knowledge of specifics!
As for cost... Well again this is tough. From my understanding LM have exclusive access to the leases of most of their Embraers which makes them as good as owned as they are from a closely related company. The only three which aren't in that state were previously leased but were bought outright by Loganair last year. Ownership costs will indeed only go so far and the Q400 of course operationally is much more attractive financially.
As for cost... Well again this is tough. From my understanding LM have exclusive access to the leases of most of their Embraers which makes them as good as owned as they are from a closely related company. The only three which aren't in that state were previously leased but were bought outright by Loganair last year. Ownership costs will indeed only go so far and the Q400 of course operationally is much more attractive financially.
Easyjet are already back to 3 or 4 a day on BRS-BFS which will be a thinner route than BHX-BFS. But they do have it to themselves.
the EasyJet schedule on BHX-BFS is between 2 and 4 a day in October and there are other carriers I’m sure, so what room is there for Flybe?
so the traffic is back and Flybe is nowhere.
the EasyJet schedule on BHX-BFS is between 2 and 4 a day in October and there are other carriers I’m sure, so what room is there for Flybe?
so the traffic is back and Flybe is nowhere.
Join Date: Feb 2021
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Depends where you`re making for, but for me it was 10 mins in a cab from City Airport to the City Centre. Aldergrove is in Country Antrim 18 miles west of Belfast. City Airport is smaller, neater and easier to use.
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And I think that is a big missing factor in all of these debates - which airports want Flybe back. From what I hear of a few, they do not want to return to 90% of their business being with one airline and they are not offering deals for them to return and push others out. A network based around who will and won’t do deals will be eclectic to say the least.
055166k
If you are going into Belfast it’s a £10 cab fare vs £30 cab fare at BFS. Makes a huge difference to the overall cost when the flight might cost £25. City is easier to get through as a passenger, smaller and more compact. BHD couldn’t accommodate all the Belfast flights as EasyJet has a huge operation at BFS now. Well, huge compared to when I worked there in the 1980s and we had Shuttle, BMA to LGW, and a couple of LBA. Now regularly 3 or 4 320s on stand when I come in, plus the charter stuff and Jet2.
If you are going into Belfast it’s a £10 cab fare vs £30 cab fare at BFS. Makes a huge difference to the overall cost when the flight might cost £25. City is easier to get through as a passenger, smaller and more compact. BHD couldn’t accommodate all the Belfast flights as EasyJet has a huge operation at BFS now. Well, huge compared to when I worked there in the 1980s and we had Shuttle, BMA to LGW, and a couple of LBA. Now regularly 3 or 4 320s on stand when I come in, plus the charter stuff and Jet2.
Last edited by Blackfriar; 27th Sep 2021 at 22:15. Reason: Clarifying.
Join Date: May 2017
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Airlines only interested in fees charges handling costs etc not how much it will cost Joe Soap to get to airport. I understand that BFS wants to be less dependent on one carrier for all its domestic traffic and to diversify it carrier portfolioi
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Have to back what skipness one echo says as operating out of SOU. The view was from pax I spoke to, having worried about FlyBe having gone bust in the past, they now see it as a blessing in disguise with reliable operators like Loganair and BACF on routes that are now showing very healthy loads. Raising Flybe from the ashes will definitely mean it will bring unwanted baggage with it.
