Berlin Brandenburg
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Denmark
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With German air traffic at 8% of what it was this week last year, i'm surprised that T5 hasn't closed already. It's clear that between now and Easter, barring Christmas week, this is as busy as its going to get.
They seem to take quite long to practically move after deciding. Said to be about shops and renters needing to get compensation for the emptied place.
It feels like the german government assumes the situation might not normalize before Easter traffic maybe later again. I still hope for summer travel 21.
At least the MAX will be back. BER desperately needs FR.
It feels like the german government assumes the situation might not normalize before Easter traffic maybe later again. I still hope for summer travel 21.
At least the MAX will be back. BER desperately needs FR.
Last edited by Less Hair; 29th Nov 2020 at 10:12.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Starting on April 1st (no, not a joke) BER will switch each month between the north and south runway being in use until traffic increases enough that both have to be used. Since the north one was exclusively in use for the last few months they want to spread the joy around a bit 
Wasn't there some legal requirement related to the southern runway being in "permanent use" before Tegel can finally (legally) be given up forever? The month of may might be the decision time when they have to formally meet this requirement.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Hmm, considering Tegel is now a (AstraZeneca) vaccination center and not an airport anymore might make that point moot. But you might be right, i honestly don't know.
Tegel is still sort of kept legally mothballed although at reduced practical readiness compared to what had been initially planned. This is set to change this spring. Only then it will finally legally close.
That is except for the military helicopter base at Tegel North. This will stay and be operating for many years to come. But Luftwaffe will not use any Tegel runways anymore and operate only helicopters from the huge north apron.
That is except for the military helicopter base at Tegel North. This will stay and be operating for many years to come. But Luftwaffe will not use any Tegel runways anymore and operate only helicopters from the huge north apron.
Last edited by Less Hair; 31st Mar 2021 at 10:39.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
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As far as the government is concerned, I suspect they know more than the are willing to tell us. They deliver the bad news slice-wise. By pure luck I have been given my first Covid 19 vaccination a few days ago, second to follow on 23 June. Which means, I am in a waiting position for another three months. Rather than cancelling a flight to Athens lately, I rebooked it to the end of September. Only God knows if that works. Plan a trip with my family later this year, it is all put on hold because of all the uncertainty. I doubt, very much, if air travel will run as normal again in the foreseeable future. Summer 21 would be a dream, not only for the customers, but also for the pilots and cabin staff who eagerly wait to go back to work. In my opinion safe air travel - and planning - will be back, once the majority of people have been vaccinated,
and, as proof, present their good old yellow WHO vaccination pass on arrival. Its like going back more than 50 years, when the yellow booklet was mandatory for world wide travel, and when during transit at Bombay the health officer walked through cabin, a can with disinfection spray in each hand. There are relatively simple solutions, but everything needs to be related at a " app ", and gets more complicated.
and, as proof, present their good old yellow WHO vaccination pass on arrival. Its like going back more than 50 years, when the yellow booklet was mandatory for world wide travel, and when during transit at Bombay the health officer walked through cabin, a can with disinfection spray in each hand. There are relatively simple solutions, but everything needs to be related at a " app ", and gets more complicated.
Last edited by BEA 71; 3rd Apr 2021 at 09:26. Reason: spellin error
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Well, the good old yellow pass was apparently only widely used in very few countries, Germany being one of them.
Therefore, there will be a digital Covid vaccination passport from the EU, there is already one from IATA and so on. But yes, a swift vaccination effort can yield substantial revival of air traffic, as already visible in the USA and domestically in China (back to 100% pre-crisis level since October). There is a lot of pent up demand for vacations outside of your own home, and actually a lot of pent up spending as well, as people could not spend their money during the pandemic.
Therefore, there will be a digital Covid vaccination passport from the EU, there is already one from IATA and so on. But yes, a swift vaccination effort can yield substantial revival of air traffic, as already visible in the USA and domestically in China (back to 100% pre-crisis level since October). There is a lot of pent up demand for vacations outside of your own home, and actually a lot of pent up spending as well, as people could not spend their money during the pandemic.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Denti, I don't know about other countries but in The Netherlands a great many of the Dutch spent that pent up money on home renovations. Businesses involved in that type of work have reported unprecedented demand over the past year.
Any chance not to turn this thread into a vaccine passport one !
Speaking of BER it would seem that T5 is completely shut down. Any further refurbishment ongoing ? Will it be mothballed until better times? What are the landing fees for a LLC at the moment?
Speaking of BER it would seem that T5 is completely shut down. Any further refurbishment ongoing ? Will it be mothballed until better times? What are the landing fees for a LLC at the moment?
Well finally just been twice through the infamous new BER airport that is now finally operating.
I muss say I did not have my hopes very high and was not disappointed.
The place is huge and you have to walk (without almost any active assistance) 2km from car rental return to your boarding gate (really !). And, despite the place being massive, the gates themselves are tiny and overcrowded when disembarking and embarking a 320 (I’m sure a 380 is out of the question anyway but they might have larger gates for long haul flights ?). Even the old T5 had separate route for this and provided for better usability. Amazing. To the point that I hope they will indeed reopen said T5 for LLCs… Anyone know if this is still planed ?
And don’t get me started abut Tegel, where you could have the taxi literally drop you 20 meters from your boarding gate. Yes it had many quirks but still will remain forever the most efficient airport I ever travelled to. But I understand that Berlin needed a “trophy” airport, which, IMHO, it did not get, certainly not for the insane price they spent.
Any feedback from airside ? Is it working better than previous places ?
I muss say I did not have my hopes very high and was not disappointed.
The place is huge and you have to walk (without almost any active assistance) 2km from car rental return to your boarding gate (really !). And, despite the place being massive, the gates themselves are tiny and overcrowded when disembarking and embarking a 320 (I’m sure a 380 is out of the question anyway but they might have larger gates for long haul flights ?). Even the old T5 had separate route for this and provided for better usability. Amazing. To the point that I hope they will indeed reopen said T5 for LLCs… Anyone know if this is still planed ?
And don’t get me started abut Tegel, where you could have the taxi literally drop you 20 meters from your boarding gate. Yes it had many quirks but still will remain forever the most efficient airport I ever travelled to. But I understand that Berlin needed a “trophy” airport, which, IMHO, it did not get, certainly not for the insane price they spent.
Any feedback from airside ? Is it working better than previous places ?
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: In the sky
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As crew it’s not great either. Staff/crew search is cramped and feels like an afterthought, and cabling to equipment is hidden under plastic humps in the floor which are a trip hazard.
Non-Schengen passport control is down at ramp level with access via an unlit staircase, which is fun with luggage. Crews are then driven to their aircraft, which is pretty common in German airports.
Signage is generally poor, and many passengers board late due to delays at security or difficulty finding their gate.
At TXL crew were dropped off at a dedicated security search entrance, then passports were checked either in the same building or an office round the corner before being driven to the aircraft with no need to battle through the terminal. Much easier!
Non-Schengen passport control is down at ramp level with access via an unlit staircase, which is fun with luggage. Crews are then driven to their aircraft, which is pretty common in German airports.
Signage is generally poor, and many passengers board late due to delays at security or difficulty finding their gate.
At TXL crew were dropped off at a dedicated security search entrance, then passports were checked either in the same building or an office round the corner before being driven to the aircraft with no need to battle through the terminal. Much easier!
Yes I have indeed noted that signage is generally poor. Even the roadsigns are not illuminated at night, and most things are displayed through symbols only. I defy anyone to find the car rental return location on a rainy night without prior knowledge !
All in all I am really not impressed - not seeing much improvement over “old” SXF (again TXL was in a different realm, jsut as THF), except maybe being able to take the S-Bahn without leaving the main building (which could have been done with the old terminal too, and the way they achieved it via this massive loop is just baffling) and being able to board without a bus ride, which was indeed uncomfortable at times. But for me it certainly doesn’t outweight the convenience & practicality of previous facilities.
I’m asking again - is T5 to be reopened ? Are LCC paying a lower airport fee yet using the new terminals ? Otherwise they might feel played…
All in all I am really not impressed - not seeing much improvement over “old” SXF (again TXL was in a different realm, jsut as THF), except maybe being able to take the S-Bahn without leaving the main building (which could have been done with the old terminal too, and the way they achieved it via this massive loop is just baffling) and being able to board without a bus ride, which was indeed uncomfortable at times. But for me it certainly doesn’t outweight the convenience & practicality of previous facilities.
I’m asking again - is T5 to be reopened ? Are LCC paying a lower airport fee yet using the new terminals ? Otherwise they might feel played…
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Its shocking. They haven't got a grip on the passport control and don't get me started on swiss port. That lot couldn't organise an octoberfest in a major barvarian town! No idea how to dispatch an aircraft and massively short on staff.
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Swissport took over easyJet at the beginning of October and apparently have not managed to hire enough staff for that. Not surprising, as apparently Alpine switched mainly to lower their cost and that of course means Swissport is unable to offer competitive conditions, especially with low unemployment and a huge Tesla factory right next door hiring at very high salaries. in the beginning Swissport flew in staff from all around europe, but that is not sustainable and has since ceased, leading to overworked, undertrained and in general very unimpressive handling personnel and performance.
